Why is that we are in bondage?

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Jan 27, 2013
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#81
So he started to blatantly break the Law?
when did law save anyone. 2 gal
19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#82
Reminds me of a former president...

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."
That is the point. Words are manipulative, so they must be defined in order to understand each other.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#83
Just because God chooses to use something in His creation to teach us a spiritual truth does not mean He does away with it. If God chooses to use the Sabbath to teach us a spiritual truth does that mean we now change the day to another day or do away with the day? God uses marriage between a man and a woman to help us understand a spiritual truth too. Do we now do away with marriage? Do we now chnage marriage to now being between a man and a man or a woman and a woman?

The seventh day is part of creation itself. It's a memorial of creation that bears witness to creation and its Creator. We can never change that nor would we want to, unless God being the Creator was a threat to you and your ability to receive worship.


Isaiah 14:13-15 You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throneabove the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.”

It's hard to be worshiped as God when there are so many things in creation that testify of the one true God. You must remove the things that testify of the true God before you can make yourself like the Most High. Unlocking Bible Prophecy
Again Saturday is not the Sabbath, only the shadow. That means that after the 7th day of the week, it is followed by the work of men again.

That is a reoccurring pattern. Do you believe the millennium kingdom will be followed by another day of work? No.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#84
It seems to me that a shadow cannot have a different shape from what it is a shadow of. If I only say a shadow of a tree, I would still recognize it as a tree, just an incomplete picture. You are saying that by seeing a shadow of the Sabbath (although I haven't seen a scripture saying Sabbath is a shadow like animal blood was) you can't recognize the Sabbath.

It also doesn't make sense to me that because mankind can fully rest it means there is absolutely no other kinds of rest that scripture talks of. God isn't that limited.

It also does not sound like good listening to scripture to say that because the Lord lets us choose the day, we may not speak to each other about the last day of the week as the day Genesis speaks of as the day the Lord created for special blessings for us. We speak of other things of scripture, surely we can speak of that, too.
What is special about Saturday? Are bills due? If so, then you are still in bondage and the work of men. This is what the true Sabbath is for. It was made for man to free him of these man made burdens, because man refuses to do it himself.

When the true Sabbath starts, the whole world will know it, not just a few in the world going to church on a Saturday. But it will be an unmistakable period of time in our lives in which it will be undeniable.

If you followed the story of Israel in the wilderness, God gave them manna on day 6 that would last 2 days. Now look around you at all the stuff we have extra.

We have enough food, housing, and clothing for 14 billion people. God did His part and doubled us up, we just don't want to rest now because we are looking for our manna in the field still.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#85
acts 15..[SUP]10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."
[/SUP]
[SUP][SUP]5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."
make up your minds, full law, or part of the law, or grace a gift.
only a jew, is to follow the full, law. why did paul not/ or could have said, we will keep the 10 comandments in place, yet opts for verse 11.
Why is that we are in bondage? I am a gentile. ( when did he give us the law of moses, or 10 commandments..).
[SUP]19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,20 but should rite to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.[/SUP]
[/SUP][/SUP]
Are you saying that because Paul taught that being circumcised in the flesh was not necessary, he did not teach circumcision?

R
om 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#86
when did law save anyone. 2 gal
19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose
When did breaking the Law save anyone?
 
H

Hashe

Guest
#87
It isn't about breaking the law or keeping the law.
It isn't about the law.
It is about Jesus.
Why are you obsessed with the law? (Or maybe it was Armstrong who was???)
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#88
What is special about Saturday? Are bills due? If so, then you are still in bondage and the work of men. This is what the true Sabbath is for. It was made for man to free him of these man made burdens, because man refuses to do it himself.

When the true Sabbath starts, the whole world will know it, not just a few in the world going to church on a Saturday. But it will be an unmistakable period of time in our lives in which it will be undeniable.

If you followed the story of Israel in the wilderness, God gave them manna on day 6 that would last 2 days. Now look around you at all the stuff we have extra.

We have enough food, housing, and clothing for 14 billion people. God did His part and doubled us up, we just don't want to rest now because we are looking for our manna in the field still.
Your definition of words and scripture and my definition is different. You define the word bondage as what instructions for living that God gives us, and I define the word bondage as sin. You define the works of men as something to be freed from, and I define it as what we do because we love the Lord. You define Sabbath as what will happen at the end times when Christ returns, and I define it as what God created on the seventh day. You define manna as the abundance we have in the world today, and I understand it as what God gave in the wilderness because He didn't want them to do work on the Sabbath but completely depend on Him for that day, honoring the Sabbath. So we aren't speaking the same language.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#90
Your definition of words and scripture and my definition is different. You define the word bondage as what instructions for living that God gives us, and I define the word bondage as sin. You define the works of men as something to be freed from, and I define it as what we do because we love the Lord. You define Sabbath as what will happen at the end times when Christ returns, and I define it as what God created on the seventh day. You define manna as the abundance we have in the world today, and I understand it as what God gave in the wilderness because He didn't want them to do work on the Sabbath but completely depend on Him for that day, honoring the Sabbath. So we aren't speaking the same language.
Again I quoted the work that is to be stopped. The work of the flesh. We are to do the work of the Spirit. There is NO VERSE in scripture that says anything about Saturday. None. He called the light "day". You can go to church every Saturday for all I care. Just don't kill me or someone else because we don't.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#91
Again I quoted the work that is to be stopped. The work of the flesh. We are to do the work of the Spirit. There is NO VERSE in scripture that says anything about Saturday. None. He called the light "day". You can go to church every Saturday for all I care. Just don't kill me or someone else because we don't.
We are not discussing one Christian's right to kill another, or even one Christian's right to judge another, we are talking about what scripture says.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#92
We are not discussing one Christian's right to kill another, or even one Christian's right to judge another, we are talking about what scripture says.
Scripture doesn't say ANYTHING about Saturday. Find one verse. And if we hate one another, what does that make us? If Sunday church goers are saved, what is your argument about?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#93
Why is it that when we obey God, by honoring His seventh day Sabbath, we are identified, by some, as being in bondage? Do you consider yourself in bondage when you abstain from adultery, murder or worshiping false gods and idols?

Now let me ask you this question. If you believe we are breaking the literal Sabbath rest if we do any form of work on the seventh day are you considered a violator of your spiritual Sabbath rest if you do any form of obedience any day of the week?

Are you afraid of violating your spiritual rest through obeying any of God's commandments in the same way you believe we are violating the day of rest by our disobeying God on that day?
I think you are in bondage because you have not come to the end of your flesh yet(your will)when you are ready to move on you will be ready for the meat of the word,but until then,how can a mature explanation given to a child be understood especially if you are still under guidance(law)?

All the law is fulfilled in one word.LOVE


1 Corinthians 13:11

king james version

11.)When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
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#94
So we keep the Spirit of the Law while violating the letter? How does that translate to murder or adultery or idolatry?
Do you keep Passover? The Israelites kept it in remembrance and celebration of being passed-over by the death angel in Egypt. The lambs blood over their door post saved them (Exodus 12:7). I don't keep Passover because Christ became my salvation, he was and is the sacrificial lamb of God. I no longer keep ceremonial statutes or blood ordinances, because I believe they were fulfilled and satisfied in Christ. For the same reason, I don't keep the Sabbath. If I rested on Saturdays instead of in Christ, I may as well slaughter a lamb to atone for my sins. We make Christ of no effect when we find our rest on Sat or Sun. jmo
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#95
no he started to look to the spirit. and continued not to break the law, only this time not out for self gain, but for the glory of God. or do the other sins not covered by the law.
Oh, so the Law is still in force?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#96
It isn't about breaking the law or keeping the law.
It isn't about the law.
It is about Jesus.
Why are you obsessed with the law? (Or maybe it was Armstrong who was???)
Because of a few little things that Jesus Christ Himself d...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Oh and about the Armstrong thing, is that all you got? I've been worked over by professionals.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#97
Do you keep Passover? The Israelites kept it in remembrance and celebration of being passed-over by the death angel in Egypt. The lambs blood over their door post saved them (Exodus 12:7). I don't keep Passover because Christ became my salvation, he was and is the sacrificial lamb of God. I no longer keep ceremonial statutes or blood ordinances, because I believe they were fulfilled and satisfied in Christ. For the same reason, I don't keep the Sabbath. If I rested on Saturdays instead of in Christ, I may as well slaughter a lamb to atone for my sins. We make Christ of no effect when we find our rest on Sat or Sun. jmo
I do keep the Passover...

Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Jesus Christ gave the New Testament Passover instructions just before He became the perfect Paschal Lamb.

He instructed His disciples (students) on how to keep the New Testament Passover.

Paul then supported this...

1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

And which night was this? See Luke 22:15-20 quoted above.

1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#98
Scripture doesn't say ANYTHING about Saturday. Find one verse. And if we hate one another, what does that make us? If Sunday church goers are saved, what is your argument about?
Ah, but it says much about the seventh day which has been labeled Saturday by the Gregorian Calendar.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#99
Again I quoted the work that is to be stopped. The work of the flesh. We are to do the work of the Spirit. There is NO VERSE in scripture that says anything about Saturday. None. He called the light "day". You can go to church every Saturday for all I care. Just don't kill me or someone else because we don't.
Interesting you should say that, Sunday keeping churches have a long tradition of killing Sabbath keepers...


In 1671, the first Seventh Day Sabbath keeping congregation was founded in New Port, Rhode Island, by Stephen Mumford.
Mumford and his family had come to Rhode Island years earlier from the seventh day sabbath keeping Bell Lane, "Church of God", in England. Mumford, soon became successful in business and occupied a place of distinction in the New Port community.

Finding no other sabbath keepers with whom to convocate, the Mumfords began to fellowship with members of the Sunday keeping First Baptist Church, while still observing the sabbath on Saturday privately in their own home. It was with five members of this congregation that they eventually formed a sabbath keeping church. (Seventh Day Baptist Memorial, Vol 1, pg 36)
A plaque in their old Sabbatarian meeting house in Newport commemorates the church's founding:
"To the Memory of Wm. Hiscox, Stephen Mumford, Samuel Hubbard, Roger Baster, Sister Hubbard, Sister Mumford, Sister Rachel Langworthy. Who for greater freedom in the exercise of religious faith in the observance of God's Holy Sabbath - The seventh day of the week - reluctantly severed their connection with the parent church, the First Baptist Church of Newport, and entered into a church covenant the 23rd day Dec., 1671." The doctrine of this church was not surprisingly, very closely related to that of the Apostolic Church and the other "True Christians" mentioned in this writing throughout the Church's history.
They kept the Ten Commandments.
They believed in the immersion baptism of adults and did not baptize children.
They believed in the "laying on of hands".
They practiced the foot washing described in John 13:3-16.
They did not refer to ministers as "Reverends", since they believed only God should be revered.
They were a pacifistic people who opposed war, slavery, and secret societies.
They did not believe in the trinity.
They believed the Holy Spirit was the "Power of God".
In his book, "A History of the Sabbatarians or Seventh Day Baptist's in America", Henry Clarke claims that these sabbath keepers did not adhere to the doctrine of a trinity. "I conclude they all believe in one God, the Father and maker of all things, sin excepted, and in one Lord Jesus Christ, or that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and also in the Holy Ghost, as the operative power or spirit of God. But there are few if any, of this denomination, as I conceive, who believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are three absolute distinct persons, coequal, coessential, and coeternal Gods, and yet but one God; as such an idea would be in the face of scripture, and repugnant to right reason." (page 62) By 1692, the congregation at Newport had 40 members.
Another assembly sprang from out of this Church in western Rhode Island at Hopkinton.
This Rhode Island church also spread to other areas, as the "Seventh day Baptist Memorial" chronicles.
In 1703, a Sabbath keeping congregation was started at Piscataway, New Jersey and later at Shrewsbury New Jersey, calling themselves the "Church of God" and are both linked in this journal directly to the Rhode Island Church. (Vol 2, No 3, pg 121 and Vol 2, No 4, pg 160)
By the late seventeen hundreds, the congregation at Hopkinton had grown to become one of the largest Sabbath keeping Churches in America with close to one thousand members.
It was during this time that the strongly established Sunday keeping churches throughout the nation began to actively persecute those who kept the Seventh Day.


One of the oldest ploys in the book, justification by accusation.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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If you would like to learn some interesting history, try searching for "Sabbath keepers Rhode Island" Or just try Stephen Mumford.