Mormons / Latter Day Saints

[Flamingspirit]

If you love "the man" who is a Mormon you should save him from his beliefs. Otherwise you stood by and let him die without being saved while not even trying to save him. That's not 'love'. The task ahead for you is a hard one. If you "love the man" then do everything you can to save his soul.

Before trying to save a Mormons soul you first have to know what they believe and what you're up against. Here's what Mormons believe:

The Mormon religion (Mormonism), whose followers are known as Mormons and Latter Day Saints (LDS), was founded less than two hundred years ago by a man named Joseph Smith. He claimed to have received a personal visit from God the Father and Jesus Christ who told him that all churches and their creeds were an abomination. Joseph Smith then set out to begin a brand-new religion that claims to be the “only true church on earth.” The problem with Mormonism is that it contradicts, modifies, and expands on the Bible. Christians have no reason to believe that the Bible is not true and adequate. To truly believe in and trust God means to believe in His Word, and all Scripture is inspired by God, which means it comes from Him (2 Timothy 3:16).

Mormons believe that there are in fact four sources of divinely inspired words, not just one: 1) The Bible “as far as it is translated correctly.” Which verses are considered incorrectly translated is not always made clear. 2) The Book of Mormon, which was “translated” by Smith and published in 1830. Smith claimed it is the “most correct book” on earth and that a person can get closer to God by following its precepts “than by any other book.” 3) The Doctrine and Covenants, containing a collection of modern revelations regarding the “Church of Jesus Christ as it has been restored.” 4) The Pearl of the Great Price, which is considered by Mormons to “clarify” doctrines and teachings that were lost from the Bible and adds its own information about the earth's creation. Read more: What is Mormonism? What do Mormons believe?

I wish you luck and pray for the Lords help. ​

Again I'm not not trying to save the Mormon only the man. Do you really think you will be concerned about what a Book of Mormon states when the dollar collapses? That means that doctrines of Mormons and your doctrine will cease. This is of the earth. How so? Because your church building worries about the same bills as the Mormon church does.

To to pharaoh it doesn't matter what a person calls God or how a person worships, only that they pay taxes to do it!

 

[VCO]

Again I'm not not trying to save the Mormon only the man. Do you really think you will be concerned about what a Book of Mormon states when the dollar collapses? That means that doctrines of Mormons and your doctrine will cease. This is of the earth. How so? Because your church building worries about the same bills as the Mormon church does.

To to pharaoh it doesn't matter what a person calls God or how a person worships, only that they pay taxes to do it!

Sorry, but the economic collapse that is in Revelation, happens AFTER true Christians are called out from the earth to go to the Wedding of Jesus Christ to the Church. I suspect you will still be here though, so I hope you are a good hunter, but know lots and lots of people will be out in the woods hunting, so you may want to find a very good remote hunting spot. BUT remember this less than 7 years later, THIS WILL HAPPEN:

Revelation 19:11-21 (GW)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I saw heaven standing open. There was a white horse, and its rider is named Faithful and True. With integrity he judges and wages war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes are flames of fire. On his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him, but only he knows what it is.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He wears clothes dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The armies of heaven, wearing pure, white linen, follow him on white horses.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] A sharp sword comes out of his mouth to defeat the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter and tread the winepress of the fierce anger of God Almighty.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] On his clothes and his thigh he has a name written: King of kings and Lord of lords.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] I saw an angel standing in the sun. He cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come! Gather for the great banquet of God.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Eat the flesh of kings, generals, warriors, horses and their riders, and all free people and slaves, both important or insignificant people.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP] I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] The beast and the false prophet who had done miracles for the beast were captured. By these miracles the false prophet had deceived those who had the brand of the beast and worshiped its statue. Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The rider on the horse killed the rest with the sword that came out of his mouth. All the birds gorged themselves on the flesh of those who had been killed.

 

[VCO]

Can you be more specific?

Did you not tell me that you do not believe in the Holy Trinity, that the Three are ONE GOD? ? ?

I sure wish you would post a Doctrinal Statement of Faith that you agree with 100%.

 

[Flamingspirit]

Did you not tell me that you do not believe in the Holy Trinity, that the Three are ONE GOD? ? ?

I sure wish you would post a Doctrinal Statement of Faith that you agree with 100%.

Yes. Now if your doctrine is of this, how is it correct? Trinity is not found in the bible at all! No son is the same age as his father and The Lord our God is one not 3 in 1.

Any child can count to three AND know that 3 is more than 1. This argument above all goes away in love. But you will continue to hold on to it because it sounds fancy and wise. Remember the Jews KNEW who they worshipped. There was no trinity then.

 

[Flamingspirit]

Sorry, but the economic collapse that is in Revelation, happens AFTER true Christians are called out from the earth to go to the Wedding of Jesus Christ to the Church. I suspect you will still be here though, so I hope you are a good hunter, but know lots and lots of people will be out in the woods hunting, so you may want to find a very good remote hunting spot. BUT remember this less than 7 years later, THIS WILL HAPPEN:

Revelation 19:11-21 (GW)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I saw heaven standing open. There was a white horse, and its rider is named Faithful and True. With integrity he judges and wages war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes are flames of fire. On his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him, but only he knows what it is.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He wears clothes dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The armies of heaven, wearing pure, white linen, follow him on white horses.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] A sharp sword comes out of his mouth to defeat the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter and tread the winepress of the fierce anger of God Almighty.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] On his clothes and his thigh he has a name written: King of kings and Lord of lords.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] I saw an angel standing in the sun. He cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come! Gather for the great banquet of God.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Eat the flesh of kings, generals, warriors, horses and their riders, and all free people and slaves, both important or insignificant people.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP] I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] The beast and the false prophet who had done miracles for the beast were captured. By these miracles the false prophet had deceived those who had the brand of the beast and worshiped its statue. Both of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The rider on the horse killed the rest with the sword that came out of his mouth. All the birds gorged themselves on the flesh of those who had been killed.

Another error. How was Christ caught up? He died, as will we all. This sword that comes out of His mouth, is it literal? No. This is a war of words and at the collapse of the economy and separation of the wheat and tares become visible, THEN my words and those who also carry the truth will save many.

 

[VCO]

Yes. Now if your doctrine is of this, how is it correct? Trinity is not found in the bible at all! No son is the same age as his father and The Lord our God is one not 3 in 1.

Any child can count to three AND know that 3 is more than 1. This argument above all goes away in love. But you will continue to hold on to it because it sounds fancy and wise. Remember the Jews KNEW who they worshipped. There was no trinity then.

THIS IS THE LAST TIME I AM GOING TO EXPLAIN THIS.

It is in BIBLE:

Matthew 28:19 (NIV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name {name SINGULAR} of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, {Notice there are NO commas, that is because the THREE are ONE GOD. Trinity is just a descriptive Title we gave it, for that TRIUNE GOD TRUTH. You are made in the image of GOD, and you are a triune being too. Three parts that make up ONE human being, body and soul and spirit.}

In the Hebrew and Jewish traditions, Son of WHOEVER is ALSO a LEGAL TITLE of whoever the Father chose to be the rightful heir to all that the Father has. WHOEVER the Father Chose, even if it was NOT an offspring, had the right to use that LEGAL TITLE, from the moment He was Chosen, and only a MALE could be chosen. In the case of GOD the Father, HE CHOSE to give that LEGAL TITLE to part of Himself, because HE is ETERNAL and will never die; therefore that LEGAL TITLE SON of GOD includes ownership of ALL that the FATHER has, EVEN HIS DEITY.

John 16:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] All {including HIS DEITY} that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

SEE, Jesus TOLD YOU SO, but you would rather believe a deceiving spirit, speaking lies to your heart than what the BIBLE says.

Like I said, you were created in the image of GOD, and the only way you are like GOD, is in the fact that you are three parts that make up ONE human being. You are body and soul and spirit, YET you are ONLY ONE MAN and NOT THREE.

BESIDES:

Luke 1:37 (NIV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] For nothing is impossible with God."

Now I have showed you this several times before.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world {apparently you have} but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit{giving us spiritual understanding of spiritual TRUTHS in HIS WORD}, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

{You must be born again to have that spiritual understanding of the spiritual TRUTHS in HIS WORD. You become Born Again when you sincerely mourn over your sinfulness and repent, surrendering to Jesus Christ as God in the flesh and LORD, which means MASTER.}

COME! Come to the real JESUS CHRIST of the BIBLE. I want you to be with me in Heaven, but you have to become born again or you will not be there.

 

[VCO]

Another error. How was Christ caught up? He died, as will we all. This sword that comes out of His mouth, is it literal? No. This is a war of words and at the collapse of the economy and separation of the wheat and tares become visible, THEN my words and those who also carry the truth will save many.

Here you go again, NOT GETTING YOUR THEOLOGY FROM THE BIBLE.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (ESV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep {die}, but we shall all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord’s coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice {THAT is the start of a Jewish Wedding. The Bridegroom had to choose a member of His wedding party to SHOUT and call the Bride out of her old dwelling place, without any member of the wedding party setting foot in the Bride's old dwelling place, and we are OFF to go to the Wedding of the Lamb in heaven.}, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air​ and so we will always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore encourage one another with these words.

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”

If you want to learn more about the Jewish Wedding Traditions please read my posts on: http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ng-out-bride-go-wedding-lamb.html#post1604022

The killings of the REST by HIS WORD is certainly literal. You would know that if you would become born again and then study the BIBLE more instead of depending on a deceiving spirit for information.

Revelation 14:20 (ASV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And the winepress are trodden without the city, and there came out blood from the winepress, even unto the bridles of the horses, as far as a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Colossians 1:17 (GW)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He existed before everythingand holds everything together.


EVERYTHING would include the cells of your body and those of all other unbelievers. WHAT HAPPENS IF HE JUST LETS GO?

 

[Flamingspirit]

THIS IS THE LAST TIME I AM GOING TO EXPLAIN THIS.

It is in BIBLE:

Matthew 28:19 (NIV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name {name SINGULAR} of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, {Notice there are NO commas, that is because the THREE are ONE GOD. Trinity is just a descriptive Title we gave it, for that TRIUNE GOD TRUTH. You are made in the image of GOD, and you are a triune being too. Three parts that make up ONE human being, body and soul and spirit.}

In the Hebrew and Jewish traditions, Son of WHOEVER is ALSO a LEGAL TITLE of whoever the Father chose to be the rightful heir to all that the Father has. WHOEVER the Father Chose, even if it was NOT an offspring, had the right to use that LEGAL TITLE, from the moment He was Chosen, and only a MALE could be chosen. In the case of GOD the Father, HE CHOSE to give that LEGAL TITLE to part of Himself, because HE is ETERNAL and will never die; therefore that LEGAL TITLE SON of GOD includes ownership of ALL that the FATHER has, EVEN HIS DEITY.

John 16:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] All {including HIS DEITY} that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

SEE, Jesus TOLD YOU SO, but you would rather believe a deceiving spirit, speaking lies to your heart than what the BIBLE says.

Like I said, you were created in the image of GOD, and the only way you are like GOD, is in the fact that you are three parts that make up ONE human being. You are body and soul and spirit, YET you are ONLY ONE MAN and NOT THREE.

BESIDES:

Luke 1:37 (NIV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] For nothing is impossible with God."

Now I have showed you this several times before.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world {apparently you have} but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit{giving us spiritual understanding of spiritual TRUTHS in HIS WORD}, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

{You must be born again to have that spiritual understanding of the spiritual TRUTHS in HIS WORD. You become Born Again when you sincerely mourn over your sinfulness and repent, surrendering to Jesus Christ as God in the flesh and LORD, which means MASTER.}

COME! Come to the real JESUS CHRIST of the BIBLE. I want you to be with me in Heaven, but you have to become born again or you will not be there.

You may believe what you want, again I can't change you. I do howevere control my own heart and will choose to forgive you. No doctrine will keep you out of heaven with me, even though you see me burning in hell because I don't believe in a three-headed God man. We are not made up of 3 that came together but 2; that being the flesh, and the residue of the spirit that is joined to the body. The animation of which produces a living soul. Again this is true marriage that we all are a part of.


I watched an episode of Cold Case yesterday which illustrates this perfectly. It also showed that by upholding the image of the world, the marriage pact being broken among the spirit and the body.

In short a man was born gay. He looked like a woman but was a man. He/she had found someone she really liked and who was crazy about here but his dad was very strict as he was white and she Puerto Rican.

He had asked her to prom and days before they were together and as he made advances toward her, she fought him off, for fear of him finding out. She cried and told him "you don't see me!"


That statement is powerful truth! By outward appearances, she had the body of a man, but her spirit dictated she was a girl.

He he looked at her and told her "I see you!"

He had accepted her for what she really was. But his father found out the day of the prom. Just believing his boy was dating a Puerto Rican was cause enough for him, but when she defended her lover the dad realized she was a he! He then asked his son did he do anything to this "faggot". He looked at the person he loved and saw for what she was and said, "I didn't do anything with him!" She would later that prom evening kill herself!

In your world of "bible doctrine", she was a sinner who will burn in hell! In my world, she was, is and will be forgiven!

 

[VCO]

Another error. How was Christ caught up? He died, as will we all. This sword that comes out of His mouth, is it literal? No. This is a war of words and at the collapse of the economy and separation of the wheat and tares become visible, THEN my words and those who also carry the truth will save many.

WAIT A MINUTE, does that mean you do not believe that JESUS CHRIST was physically raised from the grave and then ascended to Heaven in the body of flesh and bone? ? ?

 

[daniel606]

Posted by VCO #354

Who told you that lie, Joseph Smith?

HE CREATED ONLY TWO, ONE MAN AND LATER THAT EVENING HE CREATED ADAM A MATE from one of his ribs. NATURAL PROCREATION is where the rest of us ALL CAME FROM. ONLY ADAM AND EVE EXISTED when they were kicked out of the GARDEN OF EDEN. LOOK IT UP. Get your theology from the BIBLE not Joseph Smith.

I had a hunch you would pull back from your position as soon as I explained the dilemma. You assured me that ALL was created by God in the first 6 days ( by using the words "of course I believe in the literal 6 days of creation) and on the 7th day he rested from all his creative labors. Apparently for you, He has not rested completely.

So do you now believe that the creation has continued down through the centuries even until today?

If you do, you might want to consider a couple of scriptures in Genesis. The first one is Genesis 1:26
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make MAN (not just Adam) after our likeness: and let them (plural men) have dominion over ....
This scripture in the first chapter of Genesis says that God created man and gave them dominion over.... Our interpretaiton of this scripture is that all men were created at this time. Now I am sure that it will not be your interpretation now, (primarily because of the dilemma) but just giving you our position.

The next one is Genesis 2:1
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

This is an interesting scripture, most people give it no thought. God finished his creation of both the heavens and the earth and all of the host of them. Now a lot of comments on the word "host" is interpreted to mean the stars in the heavens. We would agree fully with that if the scripture had read like this: Thus the earth was finished and the heavens also with all the host thereof. But it says the heavens first and then the earth last, and then it says: and the host of them. So because the scripture says the "host of them" we know that it is referring to both the "host" in heaven (stars) and the "host" on earth (man). The host of man could easily refer to billions of men that God created on the 6th day to inhabit the earth and have dominion over...

Joseph Smith may be a contributor to the interpretation, and it may be interpreted different than you might interpret it. You may have never even thought of these things before, being an avid anti-pre existence person, but there is plent of room for our interpretation no matter what you think of Joseph Smith. Go to biblegateway.com and put in the word "host" and you will see what I mean. It could open up a whole new thought process. We have a position right out of Bible that can be easly supported and if one would open their eyes and heart, and listen to the Spirit, you would at least have to say: Hum, I've got to take a closer look at this.

 

[VCO]

You may believe what you want, again I can't change you. I do howevere control my own heart and will choose to forgive you. No doctrine will keep you out of heaven with me, even though you see me burning in hell because I don't believe in a three-headed God man. We are not made up of 3 that came together but 2; that being the flesh, and the residue of the spirit that is joined to the body. The animation of which produces a living soul. Again this is true marriage that we all are a part of.


I watched an episode of Cold Case yesterday which illustrates this perfectly. It also showed that by upholding the image of the world, the marriage pact being broken among the spirit and the body.

In short a man was born gay. He looked like a woman but was a man. He/she had found someone she really liked and who was crazy about here but his dad was very strict as he was white and she Puerto Rican.

He had asked her to prom and days before they were together and as he made advances toward her, she fought him off, for fear of him finding out. She cried and told him "you don't see me!"


That statement is powerful truth! By outward appearances, she had the body of a man, but her spirit dictated she was a girl.

He he looked at her and told her "I see you!"

He had accepted her for what she really was. But his father found out the day of the prom. Just believing his boy was dating a Puerto Rican was cause enough for him, but when she defended her lover the dad realized she was a he! He then asked his son did he do anything to this "faggot". He looked at the person he loved and saw for what she was and said, "I didn't do anything with him!" She would later that prom evening kill herself!

In your world of "bible doctrine", she was a sinner who will burn in hell! In my world, she was, is and will be forgiven!

I repeat it is unrepentant sinners that face eternal punishment. AND YES homosexually is a sin that can be repented of:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

They repented of that sin of homosexuality and and the other sins, and never returned to it. They also received Jesus as God in the Flesh and submitted to HIM as LORD. In other words they were born again.

Ultimately it is everyone who is not BORN AGAIN, that will face eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire.

I warn you again, that spirit you are speaking to in your heart is NOT OF GOD, it is a deceiving spirit sent to DECEIVE you by Satan.

COME! Please come to the real Jesus Christ of the BIBLE.


2 Timothy 4:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron;

GOD IS NOT A MAN, the totality of GOD: the FATHER and the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT, IS ONE DIVINE, OMNIPRESENT, ALL POWERFUL, ETERNAL, SPIRIT.

I need to make you aware of a rapidly approaching fact. If you keep hardening your heart against the TRUTH, GOD will harden it to where you can never BELIEVE. ALSO HE will not allow me to continue to discuss and present the Truth to you much longer:

Matthew 10:12-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And when you go into a household, greet it.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

That day when I must "shake off the dust from my feet" and go on to someone else, is rapidly approaching.

Please do not harden your heart! COME! Come, to the real Jesus Christ of the BIBLE.

Hebrews 3:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] As it is said: Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.

 

[VCO]

I had a hunch you would pull back from your position as soon as I explained the dilemma. You assured me that ALL was created by God in the first 6 days ( by using the words "of course I believe in the literal 6 days of creation) and on the 7th day he rested from all his creative labors. Apparently for you, He has not rested completely.

So do you now believe that the creation has continued down through the centuries even until today?

If you do, you might want to consider a couple of scriptures in Genesis. The first one is Genesis 1:26
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make MAN (not just Adam) after our likeness: and let them (plural men) have dominion over ....
This scripture in the first chapter of Genesis says that God created man and gave them dominion over.... Our interpretaiton of this scripture is that all men were created at this time. Now I am sure that it will not be your interpretation now, (primarily because of the dilemma) but just giving you our position.

The next one is Genesis 2:1
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

This is an interesting scripture, most people give it no thought. God finished his creation of both the heavens and the earth and all of the host of them. Now a lot of comments on the word "host" is interpreted to mean the stars in the heavens. We would agree fully with that if the scripture had read like this: Thus the earth was finished and the heavens also with all the host thereof. But it says the heavens first and then the earth last, and then it says: and the host of them. So because the scripture says the "host of them" we know that it is referring to both the "host" in heaven (stars) and the "host" on earth (man). The host of man could easily refer to billions of men that God created on the 6th day to inhabit the earth and have dominion over...

Joseph Smith may be a contributor to the interpretation, and it may be interpreted different than you might interpret it. You may have never even thought of these things before, being an avid anti-pre existence person, but there is plent of room for our interpretation no matter what you think of Joseph Smith. Go to biblegateway.com and put in the word "host" and you will see what I mean. It could open up a whole new thought process. We have a position right out of Bible that can be easly supported and if one would open their eyes and heart, and listen to the Spirit, you would at least have to say: Hum, I've got to take a closer look at this.

><>t<><


GOD is Ominipresent not only in ALL SPACE but ALSO IN ALL TIME AT THE SAME TIME; thus HE wrote the Names of all true believers in the Book of Life before the foundation of the WORLD, because HE SIMULTANEOUSLY EXISTS IN ALL TIME as thee great I AM.

NO, the theory that GOD formed all human beings on the six day and is systematically dropping them into their time frame, is a LIE and the DEVIL is the Father of ALL LIES. It contradicts what the BIBLE actually says:

Like I said get your THEOLOGY from the BIBLE and NOT from the Demon spirit of Lies, that controlled Joseph Smith.

Zechariah 12:1 (HCSB)
1 An Oracle The word of the LORD concerning Israel. A declaration of the LORD, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth, and formed the spirit of man within him.

Where does it say HE forms the spirit of a man? GOD forms the spirit of a man within him, which MEANS the earliest that a human spirit can be formed is within his mother's womb, because the body has to be formed first for the spirit of man to be formed within him.

Psalm 139:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb.



I repeat, GET YOUR THEOLOGY FROM THE BIBLE, AND NOT FROM THE DECEIVING SPIRITS YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING! The theory that all spirits of men were formed on the sixth day, is a Doctrine of Demons. REPENT! And COME to the real Jesus of the BIBLE.

YES GOD is the CREATOR of the Genetic Codes, and the designer of EVERY DNA molecule, SO THAT THEY REPRODUCE ONLY AFTER THEIR OWN KIND.

Joseph Smith is a man who followed the DOCTRINES OF DEMONS.

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Something I said to Flamingspirit, applies to my discussions with you too:
I need to make you aware of a rapidly approaching fact. If you keep hardening your heart against the TRUTH, GOD will harden it to where you can never BELIEVE. ALSO HE will not allow me to continue to discuss and present the Truth to you much longer:

Matthew 10:12-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And when you go into a household, greet it.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

That day when I must "shake off the dust from my feet" and go on to someone else, is rapidly approaching.

Please do not continue to harden your heart! COME! Come, to the real Jesus Christ of the BIBLE.

Hebrews 3:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]As it is said: Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.

 

[Dan_473]

I had a hunch you would pull back from your position as soon as I explained the dilemma. You assured me that ALL was created by God in the first 6 days ( by using the words "of course I believe in the literal 6 days of creation) and on the 7th day he rested from all his creative labors. Apparently for you, He has not rested completely.

So do you now believe that the creation has continued down through the centuries even until today?

If you do, you might want to consider a couple of scriptures in Genesis. The first one is Genesis 1:26
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make MAN (not just Adam) after our likeness: and let them (plural men) have dominion over ....
This scripture in the first chapter of Genesis says that God created man and gave them dominion over.... Our interpretaiton of this scripture is that all men were created at this time. Now I am sure that it will not be your interpretation now, (primarily because of the dilemma) but just giving you our position.

The next one is Genesis 2:1
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

This is an interesting scripture, most people give it no thought. God finished his creation of both the heavens and the earth and all of the host of them. Now a lot of comments on the word "host" is interpreted to mean the stars in the heavens. We would agree fully with that if the scripture had read like this: Thus the earth was finished and the heavens also with all the host thereof. But it says the heavens first and then the earth last, and then it says: and the host of them. So because the scripture says the "host of them" we know that it is referring to both the "host" in heaven (stars) and the "host" on earth (man). The host of man could easily refer to billions of men that God created on the 6th day to inhabit the earth and have dominion over...

Joseph Smith may be a contributor to the interpretation, and it may be interpreted different than you might interpret it. You may have never even thought of these things before, being an avid anti-pre existence person, but there is plent of room for our interpretation no matter what you think of Joseph Smith. Go to biblegateway.com and put in the word "host" and you will see what I mean. It could open up a whole new thought process. We have a position right out of Bible that can be easly supported and if one would open their eyes and heart, and listen to the Spirit, you would at least have to say: Hum, I've got to take a closer look at this.

I hasn't heard this interpretation before... I can see that when a child is born, it gets its dna from its parents... but the spirit? is a new one created at that time? I would deal with it by saying the bible is highly accurate, not perfect... God rested from his work back then, still creates today... Jesus did miracles, a creative work, I think... my opinion there...

 

[daniel606]

Posted by VCO #372

NO, the theory that GOD formed all human beings on the six day and is systematically dropping them into their time frame, is a LIE and the DEVIL is the Father of ALL LIES. It contradicts what the BIBLE actually says:

Like I said get your THEOLOGY from the BIBLE and NOT from the Demon spirit of Lies, that controlled Joseph Smith.

Zechariah 12:1 (HCSB)
1 An Oracle The word of the LORD concerning Israel. A declaration of the LORD, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth, and formed the spirit of man within him.

Where does it say HE forms the spirit of a man? GOD forms the spirit of a man within him, which MEANS the earliest that a human spirit can be formed is within his mother's womb, because the body has to be formed first for the spirit of man to be formed within him.

You did not answer my 2 scriptures right out of Genesis. They support God made man on the 6th day. What say you. My theology is from the scriptures, just like yours. You again, called my interpretation a lie and that Satan is my father. Then you come up with a soft scripture to support your position. So you think that God somehow gets inside a person when they are in the womb and forms that persons spirit then and there, and he does that thousands of times a day all over the world.

I call Zechariah 12:1 soft because I looked up other translations and this is what I found: (all Zechariah 12:1)
From the (ERV) ...he put the human spirit in people
From the (NCV) ...he put the human spirit within
From the (NIRV) ...he created the spirit of all men
From the (NLT) ... he formed the human spirit

Interesting how different versions lead to a different conclusion. These versions are Mormon 101 versions.

After looking at other versions, I am prepared to say that what your version is trying to say is that he formed the spirit of man that is within him, or the spirit that is within him, he formed. Not that he got inside the gut of every child in the womb and formed the spirit there.

You are the one that started this discussion of the pre-existence. I am just in the first of probably 10 steps that help people know that the pre-existence is prevelent in the Bible. I agree that your theology does not recognize it, but I believe your theology is coming primarily from the men that were at Nicea in 325AD. Let me tell you, if you want to accuse people of learning from the father of lies and spouting his doctrine, just read about who was in charge of that "sacred council" at Nicea. It was Satan himself in the form of Constantine and his army that compelled these rich and powerful and haughty bishops of the church to come to a consensus or be deflocked, deriched, depowerfuled, and humbled. The vicars of Christ melted and did what they had to do to save their worthless necks so they could go on sitting in their lofty thrones, and parade around like they were apostles of Christ. These are the men you find your theology from. Read the history from all angles and you will not be happy. When the reformation did not make a marked difference, the Lord turned to a complete restoration. Which is now proceeding to world wide status and all men are having the oppertunity to learn that they are children of God, literally. The scriptures bear record of this. You know it, but you ignore it because you would have to recognize that we are literally the spirit children of God as many versions of the Bible state outright.

if you want to dust your feet, do it. You must be tired of defending your theology. I enjoy the discussion and am ready night and day to defend Jesus Christ and what he did for me until I have exhausted every scripture. Like I say, I have not even started yet to defend the pre-existence, and that is 1 of 20 interesting topics that we could discuss, but you apparently are getting tired of discussing Christ. So go ahead and dust me off. If not stop calling me a follower of Satan and with dignity, and without malice, defend your position.

 

[VCO]

I hasn't heard this interpretation before... I can see that when a child is born, it gets its dna from its parents... but the spirit? is a new one created at that time? I would deal with it by saying the bible is highly accurate, not perfect... God rested from his work back then, still creates today... Jesus did miracles, a creative work, I think... my opinion there...

Finally, one with some understanding of the BIBLE. I know we still disagree on a lot of things, but you are correct that when Jesus fed the 5000 and the 4000, it was a Creative Work. And that each new human spirit is created in the body within the womb, but that spirit is not born ALIVE to the Will of GOD at natural birth, but rather dead in the in sin nature inherited from Adam. That is why becoming born again, is absolutely NECESSARY. I also believe HE did the feedings of the 5000 and 4000 to VALIDATE that HE truly is the CREATOR:

Colossians 1:16-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead {Never to die again}, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,

Now as for GOD's Work not being perfect, I cannot agree with that.

Deuteronomy 32:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I will proclaim Yahweh’s name. Declare the greatness of our God!
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The Rock—His work is perfect; all His ways are entirely just. A faithful God, without prejudice, He is righteous and true.
2 Timothy 3:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,

Psalm 19:7 (ASV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The law of Jehovah is perfect, restoring the soul: The testimony of Jehovah is sure, making wise the simple.

2 Samuel 22:31 (HCSB)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] God—His way is perfect; the word of the LORD is pure. He is a shield to all who take refuge in Him.


Any time we THINK we found imperfection in HIS WORD, it is OUR interpretation that is imperfect, and NOT HIS WORD.

 

[daniel606]

Posted by Dan_473 #373

I hasn't heard this interpretation before... I can see that when a child is born, it gets its dna from its parents... but the spirit? is a new one created at that time? I would deal with it by saying the bible is highly accurate, not perfect... God rested from his work back then, still creates today... Jesus did miracles, a creative work, I think... my opinion there...

A lot of Christians know nothing of the truth about the journey of the spirit. These last couple of posts are just the beginning of the discussion. So stay tuned, it will get interesting.

 

[Flamingspirit]

WAIT A MINUTE, does that mean you do not believe that JESUS CHRIST was physically raised from the grave and then ascended to Heaven in the body of flesh and bone? ? ?

Yes but I also know of it's spiritual application to the world as well.

Hosea 6

6 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.


2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

The day is fast approaching in which the mind of Christ will be in us all!

 

[VCO]

You did not answer my 2 scriptures right out of Genesis. They support God made man on the 6th day. What say you. My theology is from the scriptures, just like yours. You again, called my interpretation a lie and that Satan is my father. Then you come up with a soft scripture to support your position. So you think that God somehow gets inside a person when they are in the womb and forms that persons spirit then and there, and he does that thousands of times a day all over the world.

I call Zechariah 12:1 soft because I looked up other translations and this is what I found: (all Zechariah 12:1)
From the (ERV) ...he put the human spirit in people
From the (NCV) ...he put the human spirit within
From the (NIRV) ...he created the spirit of all men
From the (NLT) ... he formed the human spirit

Interesting how different versions lead to a different conclusion. These versions are Mormon 101 versions.

After looking at other versions, I am prepared to say that what your version is trying to say is that he formed the spirit of man that is within him, or the spirit that is within him, he formed. Not that he got inside the gut of every child in the womb and formed the spirit there.

You are the one that started this discussion of the pre-existence. I am just in the first of probably 10 steps that help people know that the pre-existence is prevelent in the Bible. I agree that your theology does not recognize it, but I believe your theology is coming primarily from the men that were at Nicea in 325AD. Let me tell you, if you want to accuse people of learning from the father of lies and spouting his doctrine, just read about who was in charge of that "sacred council" at Nicea. It was Satan himself in the form of Constantine and his army that compelled these rich and powerful and haughty bishops of the church to come to a consensus or be deflocked, deriched, depowerfuled, and humbled. The vicars of Christ melted and did what they had to do to save their worthless necks so they could go on sitting in their lofty thrones, and parade around like they were apostles of Christ. These are the men you find your theology from. Read the history from all angles and you will not be happy. When the reformation did not make a marked difference, the Lord turned to a complete restoration. Which is now proceeding to world wide status and all men are having the oppertunity to learn that they are children of God, literally. The scriptures bear record of this. You know it, but you ignore it because you would have to recognize that we are literally the spirit children of God as many versions of the Bible state outright.

if you want to dust your feet, do it. You must be tired of defending your theology. I enjoy the discussion and am ready night and day to defend Jesus Christ and what he did for me until I have exhausted every scripture. Like I say, I have not even started yet to defend the pre-existence, and that is 1 of 20 interesting topics that we could discuss, but you apparently are getting tired of discussing Christ. So go ahead and dust me off. If not stop calling me a follower of Satan and with dignity, and without malice, defend your position.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

This probably be my last post to you. The genetic codes and DNA passed on to the next generation fulfill the physical reference to MAN. But you are missing the entire point of HE Created us in His image:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Three parts make up ONE human being, just like GOD. Two of the parts remain invisible and only one part is visible; JUST LIKE GOD. I believe every time GOD took a visible form it was the preincarnate Jesus Christ. HENCE:

John 6:46 (GW)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] I'm saying that no one has seen the Father. Only the one who is from God has seen the Father.

John 10:30 (ASV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] I and the Father are one.

John 14:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Joshua 24:15 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

 

[Flamingspirit]

I repeat it is unrepentant sinners that face eternal punishment. AND YES homosexually is a sin that can be repented of:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

They repented of that sin of homosexuality and and the other sins, and never returned to it. They also received Jesus as God in the Flesh and submitted to HIM as LORD. In other words they were born again.

Ultimately it is everyone who is not BORN AGAIN, that will face eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire.

I warn you again, that spirit you are speaking to in your heart is NOT OF GOD, it is a deceiving spirit sent to DECEIVE you by Satan.

COME! Please come to the real Jesus Christ of the BIBLE.


2 Timothy 4:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron;

GOD IS NOT A MAN, the totality of GOD: the FATHER and the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT, IS ONE DIVINE, OMNIPRESENT, ALL POWERFUL, ETERNAL, SPIRIT.

I need to make you aware of a rapidly approaching fact. If you keep hardening your heart against the TRUTH, GOD will harden it to where you can never BELIEVE. ALSO HE will not allow me to continue to discuss and present the Truth to you much longer:

Matthew 10:12-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And when you go into a household, greet it.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

That day when I must "shake off the dust from my feet" and go on to someone else, is rapidly approaching.

Please do not harden your heart! COME! Come, to the real Jesus Christ of the BIBLE.

Hebrews 3:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] As it is said: Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.

And I repeat that lying, then asking for forgiveness is NOT repentance! It's lip service. True repentance is an understanding that YOU in your BEST state is altogether vanity! And that YOU are no better than YOUR mind's worst sinner! THEN YOU will see how important it is that God saves that man.

And stop quoting verses. You seem knowledgeable but you have no clue as to what they mean. Your only following behind the ESTABLISHED and POPULARLY ACCEPTED TEACHINGS of the children of the earth before YOU. But if the blind lead the blind both will fall in a pit.


Do YOUR OWN WORK and maybe you'll rediscover that childlike mind that once understood what FREE meant.

 

[VCO]

Yes but I also know of it's spiritual application to the world as well.

Hosea 6

6 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.


2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

The day is fast approaching in which the mind of Christ will be in us all!

None are so blind, as those who will not see.

You must be BORN AGAIN or you cannot understand spiritual Truths, nor will you see Heaven.

Your false Jesus Christ has no power to save you, and HELL is for real.

COME! Before it is too late, receive the TRUE Jesus Christ of the BIBLE.

It is finished!