Mormons / Latter Day Saints

[VCO]

In other words YOU have ZERO PROOF. Every coin mentioned in the Bible has been found, almost every City mentioned can be found, or have archeological evidence mentioning their existance.

AND YOU HAVE ZERO PROOF.

Don't choke on this quote:

The description certainly sounds like coinage, which is how it was traditionally interpreted by Mormon general authorities. In fact, until changes were made to the Book of Mormon headings in 2013 (described in more detail below), the introduction to Alma chapter 11 stated that the descriptions of the money were "Nephite coins and measures." This explanation was given by James Talmage, a Mormon apostle who was commissioned to add both chapter headings and footnotes to the Book of Mormon. James P. Harris, author of The Essential James E. Talmage, noted that Talmage "was customarily meticulous, making sure there were no errors or omissions" (p.xxix).

REF: http://www.mrm.org/coins

Oh, just so you know, Mormon Historians, used to have a picture of a Nephite Coin found 15 Feet in the ground in Salt Lake City, HOWEVER:

The "Nephite Coin" (as depicted in several treasure books) was found 15' below the surface in Salt Lake City and is actually a 'Pice' issued in British India in Bengal by the mint in Calcutta in 1831. Made of copper. How this came to rest in Salt Lake could be an interesting story.

Reference Krause Catalog of World Coins. Page 990-706 E. Value 50 cent to 3.50 depends on condition. Aug 24th 82. by H. F. Campbell. 1982 Edition. Nicholas G. Morgan, Donor.

Apparently one of the early settlers had visited India. How did the coin get that deep in the ground. My guess is someone digging a well or an outhouse, lost it as it fell out of his pocket; or the string broke, as it appears to have been worn on a necklace at one time. It shows how DESPERATE the Mormon Church is to show some kind of proof, and YET THEY HAVE NONE. The logical conclusion is Joseph Smith, made the entire book up in his mind, and should only be considered a work of FICTION.

 

[Flamingspirit]

A coin? You would kill over a coin? Just don't give it power! It is LIFELESS!

 

[VCO]

A coin? You would kill over a coin? Just don't give it power! It is LIFELESS!

You know Flaming, you have the STRANGEST understanding of what it means to kill.

Do you want to see how the Bible defines it? Of course you don't, but of course I am going to show you anyhow.


1 John 3:15 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.


Now I will let you in on a little secret. It it impossible to hate someone that you are sincerely praying for, and that includes you.


Matthew 10:14-15 (NIV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

Matthew 18:3 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 8:12 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] He sighed deeply and said, "Why does this generation ask for a miraculous sign? I tell you the truth, no sign will be given to it."

John 8:45-47 (ESV)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?
[SUP]47 [/SUP] Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

John 3:3 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

Revelation 3:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.



Haven't you ever heard of tough LOVE? I am probably being less tough on FALSE DOCTRINES than HE wants me to be.


Titus 1:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

 

[Flamingspirit]

1 John 3:15

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


Exodus 20:13

13 Thou shalt not kill.


You still see yourself a sinner, but saved. So if you see yourself saved, then see all even the Mormon saved. If you do not then that is HATE, no matter how good it disguises itself in "light"!

 

[VCO]

A coin? You would kill over a coin? Just don't give it power! It is LIFELESS!

Since you seem to want to believe that condoning and accepting False Teachings and sins equals loving others like Christ and Paul would, perhaps you had better read these verses:


Romans 1:32 (HCSB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Although they know full well God’s just sentence—that those who practice such things deserve to die—they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them.

1 Timothy 1:18-20 (NIV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Galatians 1:8 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

 

[Flamingspirit]

Do you not accept your wife's shortcomings?

Again it's not about knowledge. Those people love their families and would help others just as you would. That's what it's about! Love.

 

[Flamingspirit]

You may give good lip service but I look upon the heart. You believe I'm at fault and will burn in hell if I don't repent. Of what? Of forgiving Mormons for having a false "doctrine". Of what sin do you accuse me of in this? Oh that's right! There IS NO LAW against forgiveness!

 

[VCO]

Do you not accept your wife's shortcomings?

Again it's not about knowledge. Those people love their families and would help others just as you would. That's what it's about! Love.

That is what the Work of the Ministry is about. That is not what Salvation is about.

John 3:3 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 1:1 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

John 2:18-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] So the Jews replied to Him, “What sign ⌊of authority⌋ will You show us for doing these things?”
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Jesus answered, “Destroy this sanctuary, and I will raise it up in three days.”
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore the Jews said, “This sanctuary took 46 years to build, and will You raise it up in three days?”
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But He was speaking about the sanctuary of His body.

John 14:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Not about knowledge? It is all about KNOWING HIM PERSONALLY and INTIMATELY as God in the flesh and LORD, which means MASTER!

Matthew 7:22-23 (ESV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Matthew 25:12 (ESV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[VCO]

1 John 3:15

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


Exodus 20:13

13 Thou shalt not kill.


You still see yourself a sinner, but saved. So if you see yourself saved, then see all even the Mormon saved. If you do not then that is HATE, no matter how good it disguises itself in "light"!

John 8:43-47 (ESV)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.
[SUP]44 [/SUP] You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
[SUP]45 [/SUP] But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

Matthew 16:23 (ESV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

Galatians 1:8 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

2 Timothy 3:13 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
1 Timothy 4:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

 

[Flamingspirit]

Again all these verses, and no understanding of them. What does it mean to be born again? What does it mean to be born of the devil?

Remember we all have one father.

 

[VCO]

1 John 3:15

15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


Exodus 20:13

13 Thou shalt not kill.


You still see yourself a sinner, but saved. So if you see yourself saved, then see all even the Mormon saved. If you do not then that is HATE, no matter how good it disguises itself in "light"!

You don't get it, do you. Mormonism is a Psuedo-Christian Cult, that teaches a different Father, a different Jesus Christ, and a different Holy Spirit, than the Holy Trinity of the BIBLE. Not only that, but they teach a whole different gospel, than the Bible teaches. They only imitate Christianity and use our terminology while meaning something different by almost every term, and really are not Christians at all. Please read the information on this Site: Terminology Differences (Main)


2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no wonder! For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their destiny will be according to their works.

 

[VCO]

Again all these verses, and no understanding of them. What does it mean to be born again? What does it mean to be born of the devil?

Remember we all have one father.

Why you not read this verses, every one is pertinent to this discussion and answer questions you pose? If you do read them, why do you not understand them? And you are WRONG about "we all have one father".

John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who did receive Him {no more and no less}, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 8:14-15 (ASV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. {no more and no less}
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For ye received not the spirit of bondage again unto fear; but ye received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

 

[VCO]

You may give good lip service but I look upon the heart. You believe I'm at fault and will burn in hell if I don't repent. Of what? Of forgiving Mormons for having a false "doctrine". Of what sin do you accuse me of in this? Oh that's right! There IS NO LAW against forgiveness!

Granted I cannot see your heart, but if you do not believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ, receiving HIM as GOD in the flesh and as LORD, which means Master. You are then guilty of Blaspheming the work of Holy Spirit, for it is HE who is trying to apply that information about Jesus Christ to your heart personally. GOD says that sin will never be forgiven.

 

[VCO]

You may give good lip service but I look upon the heart. You believe I'm at fault and will burn in hell if I don't repent. Of what? Of forgiving Mormons for having a false "doctrine". Of what sin do you accuse me of in this? Oh that's right! There IS NO LAW against forgiveness!

But there is a commandment to be obedient:

Galatians 1:8 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

2 John 1:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home, and don’t say, “Welcome,” to him;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] for the one who says, “Welcome,” to him shares in his evil works.

 

[Dan_473]

responding to the first part of post 319... assuming that the original writings were exactly God's words, I don't think God has told us which books or versions of books are his word... we still have the longer ending of Mark question... to me, it's easy to see that the transmission isn't perfect, Isaiah 61 is quoted differently in Luke 4... still really great, though...

 

[Dan_473]

Why you not read this verses, every one is pertinent to this discussion and answer questions you pose? If you do read them, why do you not understand them? And you are WRONG about "we all have one father".

John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who did receive Him {no more and no less}, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 8:14-15 (ASV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. {no more and no less}
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For ye received not the spirit of bondage again unto fear; but ye received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

On mars hill, Paul goes with the idea that we are his children...

 

[VCO]

responding to the first part of post 319... assuming that the original writings were exactly God's words, I don't think God has told us which books or versions of books are his word... we still have the longer ending of Mark question... to me, it's easy to see that the transmission isn't perfect, Isaiah 61 is quoted differently in Luke 4... still really great, though...

Yes He DID, Only Prophets that did miracles that were done purely by GOD Himself, confirming the WORD and writer as one who speaks from GOD. That is how the entire Canon was confirmed, and is why the Apocrypha Books and NO BOOK written after Revelation will ever be considered part of the Canon. It is why unbelieving Jews required a sign before they would ever believe something new was from GOD.


Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.

 

[Dan_473]

Granted I cannot see your heart, but if you do not believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ, receiving HIM as GOD in the flesh and as LORD, which means Master. You are then guilty of Blaspheming the work of Holy Spirit, for it is HE who is trying to apply that information about Jesus Christ to your heart personally. GOD says that sin will never be forgiven.

I disagree with the logic there, VCO... sounds like anyone who doesn't accept the deity of Jesus the instant they are presented with it could never be saved...

 

[Dan_473]

Yes He DID, Only Prophets that did miracles that were done purely by GOD Himself, confirming the WORD and writer as one who speaks from GOD. That is how the entire Canon was confirmed, and is why the Apocrypha Books and NO BOOK written after Revelation will ever be considered part of the Canon. It is why unbelieving Jews required a sign before they would ever believe something new was from GOD.


Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.

well, two things, you're quoting words that are probably not in the bible... and, who is the person who was aware of the prophets' miracles and put together the canon? ...

 

[CRC]

3 What, then, is the superiority of the Jew, or what is the benefit of the circumcision? 2 A great deal in every way. First of all, because they were entrusted with the sacred pronouncements of God. 3 What, then, [is the case]? If some did not express faith, will their lack of faith perhaps make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Never may that happen! But let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, even as it is written: “That you might be proved righteous in your words and might win when you are being judged.” 5 However, if our unrighteousness brings God’s righteousness to the fore, what shall we say? God is not unjust when he vents his wrath, is he? (I am speaking as a man does.) 6 Never may that happen! How, otherwise, will God judge the world?