Here is another passage for the law/sabbath keepers to explain away........

[Simona25]

If what you want to get across to Christians is to go against all Christ tells us about how we should live, that we should never try to follow Christ---surely you know better.

Maybe, next time, you read what I write and stop completing it with what you imagine I said.

If you say that all the Hebrews went through when they were freed from slavery in Egypt means nothing, God was doing nothing with that, it is something no one who knows the most elementary things of God would say.

No, I am not saying that. It is you saying it...
The law from the O.T. is a guide to Jesus Christ. The freeing of the Hebrews from the slavery in Egypt only has relevance for the Christians because it points to the freeing from sin and death by the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament only has relevance in the measure it prophecies about Christ. The biggest revelation we have from God is in Jesus Christ and not in the O.T.
The law of the O.T. is not a purpose in itself, but only a mean to a purpose - Jesus Christ.

So, yes, to keep the law IS a nonsense.

 

[Kerry]

Tell me what law can you keep? tell me what law you can keep that Moses could not or Samuel or David or Elijah or Elisha or Nathan, which law could they keep? If they could, then why do we need Jesus and why was He beaten and killed?

 

[RedTent]

Maybe, next time, you read what I write and stop completing it with what you imagine I said.

No, I am not saying that. It is you saying it...
The law from the O.T. is a guide to Jesus Christ. The freeing of the Hebrews from the slavery in Egypt only has relevance for the Christians because it points to the freeing from sin and death by the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament only has relevance in the measure it prophecies about Christ. The biggest revelation we have from God is in Jesus Christ and not in the O.T.
The law of the O.T. is not a purpose in itself, but only a mean to a purpose - Jesus Christ.

So, yes, to keep the law IS a nonsense.

I listed items that what you said could have come from and questioned you about if that is what you meant, I did NOT say you said them. It said "if". You read my posts so we can communicate!!

I made bold and underlined what you SAID in this post that I am responding to.

I read the OT in order to learn about Christ, the Christ who is one with the Father. It teaches me the principles of the Lord, the same principles that Christ has. I read the law, it is part of Christ. It is scripture, scripture that has many layers of meaning. It opens up not only Christ, but creation, how our world operates, how God (the triune God) reacts to how we are, it is 78% of scripture, and I think that anyone who uses the word "only" in explaining any words from the Lord is teaching the world to not listen to all of God.

Scripture is of God. The law is scripture. The purpose of scripture is to explain God to us, that cannot be classed as nonsense. Scripture tells of what the law cannot be used for, that is part of scripture. Scripture does not say the law in nonsense.

 

[RedTent]

I just knew, if we really communicated, we agreed!! Your posts say you love and know the Lord. I send my love in Christ to you!!

 

[Simona25]

I listed items that what you said could have come from and questioned you about if that is what you meant, I did NOT say you said them. It said "if". You read my posts so we can communicate!!

I made bold and underlined what you SAID in this post that I am responding to.

I read the OT in order to learn about Christ, the Christ who is one with the Father. It teaches me the principles of the Lord, the same principles that Christ has. I read the law, it is part of Christ. It is scripture, scripture that has many layers of meaning. It opens up not only Christ, but creation, how our world operates, how God (the triune God) reacts to how we are, it is 78% of scripture, and I think that anyone who uses the word "only" in explaining any words from the Lord is teaching the world to not listen to all of God.

Scripture is of God. The law is scripture. The purpose of scripture is to explain God to us, that cannot be classed as nonsense. Scripture tells of what the law cannot be used for, that is part of scripture. Scripture does not say the law in nonsense.

The law is not nonsense. I don't believe this and I didn't say this either. To keep the law, today, by us, christians, this is what is a nonsense to me. Saint Paul said that the laws and the prophets are only shadows of the Messiah; Jesus Christ is the substance, the end (purpose) of the law (Romans 10:4). In the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15), as well as in the First Ecumenical Synod the christians have separated their cult from the jewish practices.

 

[Zmouth]

John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
Romans 13:8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Christ fulfilled the law, and when we love one another we also fulfill it. What does fulfilled mean?

4137 NT - Greek[pleroo]
pleroo play-ro'-ofrom [plhrhV] - pleres 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (aperiod or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

If you are applying the law to your life, it hasn't done it's job, which is to bring you to love.

If Christ gave you a commandment to fulfill, then wouldn't you still be under the law then since if you keep one law you keep them all since if one breaks one law they break them all.

The law of Grace and Truth was given not to condemn us but rather that we might have life and life more abundantly.

 

[RedTent]

The law is not nonsense. I don't believe this and I didn't say this either. To keep the law, today, by us, christians, this is what is a nonsense to me. Saint Paul said that the laws and the prophets are only shadows of the Messiah; Jesus Christ is the substance, the end (purpose) of the law (Romans 10:4). In the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15), as well as in the First Ecumenical Synod the christians have separated their cult from the jewish practices.

We do see many things very differently! I think Paul was led by God to teach gentiles to be able to see and go by the law directly, not through the reminders of the law the Hebrews had been given before Christians had the Holy Spirit. Paul said circumcision wasn't in the cutting of flesh they were supposed to use to mark true circumcision and to label them as people set apart, but it was circumcision of the spirit. This is a example of all Paul's teachings, I think.

Scripture tells us to be perfect, and scripture also tells us we can never be perfect, so we are to know both of these scriptures. The law gives us examples of how to follow the basic law of love explained in both the New and Old testaments.

When we are told the things we are to follow in Acts 15, if you will notice that the verse just following the instructions lets us know why these were chosen: it was to allow those people to hear scripture in the only place they could at that time, in the synagogues. Today, we can read it in the Old Testament.

It seems to me that when humans speak against what it taught in the Old Testament about what Christ can do for us through His blood as "ONLY" shadows, all to be ignored, it is not right. We are told it is very wrong to even think of using the symbol of the true blood of Christ, but I think it is wrong when we say God can teach us nothing when He explains the shadows.

If you are speaking, in your post (IF) about the Nicene Council, one of several goals of that council was to separate the church that worshipped Christ from anything God spoke of in the Old Testament. If it had Jewish roots, it was considered wrong. Christ was Jewish, Paul was Jewish, they said they were accepted but anything else must go. The gentile people at that time and for years considered the Jewish people very strange with customs that seemed unacceptable. Perhaps it was God's way of helping the world accept Him, to divorce completely from the customs of the Jews, but it was like throwing out the baby with the water the baby was bathed in. It is time to look that decision over with the eyes of the Lord.

 

[Apostol2013]

The whole scripura is filled with wisdom to be harnessed but understand the true law of the Lord in the Heavenly realm for the shadows cannot give what true righteousness can the true law that christ ce to establish wich is from the spirit i was given a light to share with others thos is the light of our Lord jesus christ , "the very law of the spirit

 

[Apostol2013]

For the first did not give life indeed but what the phisical could not the spirit is life and it is christ His true blood in the spirit giving life to as many will receive it , i love you all in all my obedience in all my thoughts i love you all , because i am of no more but it is christ living through me .

 

[Scuba]

We have the council of Jerusalem (Acts ch. 15) that clearly decrees we are no longer under the Law.

Amen! I love the council of Jerusalem because ever since I read that about two years ago I started stealing cars. I have about 40 of them right now and about $150,000.00 in the bank. My mother and father tried to talk me out of it but I told them to go pound tar and then I shoved my father. My mother got so upset when I pushed my dad but I lied to her and told her that I didn't push him. She didn't believe me and was going to call the police so I had to kill her. But hey, at least I abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.

 

[Apostol2013]

The whole scripura is filled with wisdom to be harnessed but understand the true law of the Lord in the Heavenly realm for the shadows cannot give what true righteousness can the true law that christ ce to establish wich is from the spirit i was given a light to share with others thos is the light of our Lord jesus christ , "the very law of the spirit

 

[Apostol2013]

Go if you wish and serve the law wich is the old veil , but ipu on christ our true veil now the veil is a symbol of submission to the husband and now our husband being christ His scepter is the rule of His kingdom and His kingdom is of the spirit therefore there is mo sin in His kingdom but we have a reference library to recognize sin wich is yhe law and the prophets but our establishment is of the spirit.

 

[RedTent]

Go if you wish and serve the law wich is the old veil , but ipu on christ our true veil now the veil is a symbol of submission to the husband and now our husband being christ His scepter is the rule of His kingdom and His kingdom is of the spirit therefore there is mo sin in His kingdom but we have a reference library to recognize sin wich is yhe law and the prophets but our establishment is of the spirit.

Oh my!! To serve the law? How would it be possible to serve a law? Now, when the veil was split at the moment Christ gave up the ghost at His crucifixion it is an "old veil". And Christ has become a veil? The Holy Spirit does not lead us to understanding now, but is an establishment of the spirit? You need scripture!!!

 

[royalscot]

Amen! I love the council of Jerusalem because ever since I read that about two years ago I started stealing cars. I have about 40 of them right now and about $150,000.00 in the bank. My mother and father tried to talk me out of it but I told them to go pound tar and then I shoved my father. My mother got so upset when I pushed my dad but I lied to her and told her that I didn't push him. She didn't believe me and was going to call the police so I had to kill her. But hey, at least I abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.

lol strange you quote, what you want, yet cant prove law was given to a gentile. act 15 also tell you this

[SUP]5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses."
[/SUP]this council could have keep anything, like say the 10 commandments, etc but they never because they knew this
[SUP]0 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."


[SUP]
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.romans 8
[/SUP]if the believer has a way out, is that because hes/ she is a believer,even the jewish had a way out of sin, ie temple (animals killed etc)[/SUP]

 

[just-me]

It's nonsense to keep the law since Jesus Christ is the end/purpose of the law and He fulfilled it...

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

 

[just-me]

I have studied on it, and it goes along with what God said in Exodus about if a man sheds mans blood, by man his blood shall be shed.

Our Lord changed all that under the new covenant, He showed us His grace and forgiveness by forgiving our sins as we are/were sinners. In return we are to show that same love and forgiveness He shows to us towards others.

If you believe we should put to death some one who is in prison for murder, then you are not showing the same love and forgiveness to them that the Lord showed to you.

Jesus calls for us to go and minister to them, and forgive them. Trying all the time to lead them to repentance and believe in the Lord Jesus as their Savior.

I say of my life what Paul said about his
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Then he describes the difference between a faithful believer and a carnally minded nonbeliever in Romans 8:5-7.
"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

Lawless situations create corruption a chaos. A society that abides by laws that are good will have peace. God's law is perfect, and Pharisaical law is skewed and repressive. That's why Jesus had a problem with them. Capital punishment for murder deteriorates the acts of murder.

We are to contend for the faith by spiritually killing the corruption of false doctrine.
"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death ; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in . So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee." Deuteronomy 13:5

"Wash you, make you clean ; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;" Isaiah 1:16

 

[just-me]

Tell me what law can you keep? tell me what law you can keep that Moses could not or Samuel or David or Elijah or Elisha or Nathan, which law could they keep? If they could, then why do we need Jesus and why was He beaten and killed?

Keeping the law, and receiving benefits from its instructions are two different things. One is by works, and the other is by faith.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:28-31

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." "And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" Deuteronomy 10:16 and Colossians 2:10-11

 

[royalscot]

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

acts 15, what law was a gentile to follow.
[SUP]1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.romans 8
if the believer has a way out, is that because hes/ she is a believer,even the jewish had a way out of sin, ie temple (animals killed etc)[/SUP]
romans 8

paul was at act 15.

 

[royalscot]

Keeping the law, and receiving benefits from its instructions are two different things. One is by works, and the other is by faith.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:28-31

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." "And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" Deuteronomy 10:16 and Colossians 2:10-11

[SUP]10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 "And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
For all will know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 "For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more."
13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
[/SUP]
what law, i am not jewish, again acts 15 tells you this, and gal 3 and with no temple at 70 ad , how can you follow full law.

 

[Laodicea]

John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
Romans 13:8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Christ fulfilled the law, and when we love one another we also fulfill it. What does fulfilled mean?

4137 NT - Greek[pleroo]
pleroo play-ro'-ofrom [plhrhV] - pleres 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (aperiod or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

If you are applying the law to your life, it hasn't done it's job, which is to bring you to love.

God's law is a law of love not just do's and don'ts. Jesus said if we love Him we will keep His commandments. If we only see do's and don'ts in any of the law including the Sabbath we are looking at the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law. The Bible says the law is spiritual, this includes the Sabbath.