Old Earth/Young Earth

[dcontroversal]

15,000 years old? I mean, that's far closer to the mark than 13.8 billions of years of history, according to evolutionary storytelling but it's closer to 6,000 years (from Adam to Christ to now).

Couple of questions...

1. Was Adam eternal when he was made?
2. Did Adam's years start when he sinned and became mortal?
3. List everything that took place on the 6th day before Eve was created?

Like I have said before.....The 6 days of creation could have been slowed down and it still be 6 evenings and 6 mornings...

1. The (sun) Earth stood still almost a day Joshua
2. The (sun) earth went back 10 degrees on the dial Hezekiah

Adam was made, put in the garden to tend it, named ALL of the animals etc. BEFORE GOD put him to sleep and MADE EVE....

Is it not possible that the earth could have had days that were days long yet in reality 1000 years each?

Just a question or two.......even though we have talked about this before...there are numerous questions that remain UNANSWERED when it comes to the actual age of the earth.......Personally I believe in a renovation of a destroyed earth by the fall of Satan......

God's Spirit came to be brooding over exactly what that was already here? Darkness, waters and the face of the deep!

Based upon God's ability to hold the earth in place or cause it to go back 10 degrees on the dial...could not God have slowed the revolution of the earth and it still be one evening and one morning for each day?

 

[Billyd]

God came to earth as a man 2000 years ago. That Man gave His life on a wooden cross and rose three days later so that I could have eternal life. He provided for me an atonement for the sin that entered the world in Genesis chapter three. That is what God wants us to know about the creation. While we sit and debate the details of creation, many more precious souls will be given over to Satan. Those details will remain out of reach until Christ returns, and I don't think we will worry about it then.

 

[Calminian]

God came to earth as a man 2000 years ago. That Man gave His life on a wooden cross and rose three days later so that I could have eternal life. He provided for me an atonement for the sin that entered the world in Genesis chapter three. That is what God wants us to know about the creation. While we sit and debate the details of creation, many more precious souls will be given over to Satan. Those details will remain out of reach until Christ returns, and I don't think we will worry about it then.

In other words history doesn't matter. I would disagree. I think the history of Genesis is essential to logically understanding the gospel. You talked about atonement for sin, but to the average american what is sin? How exactly did sin affect the world when it entered in chapter 3?

If you also tell the world that death and suffering existed in the world before Adam sinned, and that God called it very good, don't you think that muddies the waters a bit? Why not share the full gospel, from "very good" to sin to the cross to the restoration to the new heavens and new earth?

The church has been doing just as you are advocating for the last few decades, and as a result the church is shrinking and our kids are leaving the church in record numbers. They are being taught millions of years day and night through school and hollywood. Why would you as a christian not want to counter some of that? Why would you sit silently while the world tells them they shouldn't believe in Genesis, and then expect them to believe the gospels and epistles?

 

[Tintin]

The Schofield Bible footnotes have a lot to answer for. The gap theory isn't viable, it's just creative storytelling.

 

[dcontroversal]

The Schofield Bible footnotes have a lot to answer for. The gap theory isn't viable, it's just creative storytelling.

And to quote Schofield is exactly that...to quote and base your theology on another man and what he THOUGHT.....so...no offense TINMAN...Schofield doesn't impress me.....

EXPLAIN what was ALREADY HERE when GOD'S SPIRT came to be HOVERING (brooding) over the darkness, waters and face of the deep.......

All I did was ask questions...didn't seek a smart --- answer about some other man and what he believed!

 

[Bowman]

Do they? We actually aren't told in scripture either way, in fact, Solomon described it as a mystery. But that's all beside the point. Genesis very clearly refers to animals and soul creatures (nephesh chayyah). They have the breath of life, and originally they were designed to eat plants (Gen. 1:29-30)

And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.

you can believe this or reject it, but I choose to believe. And Isaiah speaks of a restoration where carnivores will go back to eating plants.

Is. 11:6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.


Is. 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
The lion shall eat straw like the ox,
And dust shall be the serpent’s food.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,”
Says the LORD.

Why would God bring and end to predation if it was very good from the beginning? What you're advocating is that animal suffering is very good, so you can fit millions of years into the Bible.

View attachment 88352

I would just ask, why not trust the Bible and the order of events that it indicates? The only thing I can come up with is you're trusting modern scientists more that God's revelation.

Death before sin


Job 38.25 - 41

Who has cut a channel for the flood; or a way for the thunderclaps, to make it rain on the earth where no man is, a wilderness and no man in it; to satisfy the waste and desolation, and to cause the source of grass to sprout? Is there a father for the rain? Or who has given birth to the drops of dew? From whose womb comes forth the ice; and the frost of the heavens, who fathered it; the waters hidden like stone, and the face of the deep is captured? Can you bind the bands of the Pleiades, or loosen the cords of Orion? Can you bring out the constellations in their season; or can you guide the Bear with its sons? Do you know the limits of the heavens; can you establish their rulership on the earth? Can you lift your voice to the clouds, so that floods of water may cover you? Can you send lightnings, that they may go and say to you, Here we are? Who has put wisdom in the inward parts; or who has given understanding to the mind? Who can by wisdom number the clouds or who can lay down the jars of the heavens, when the dust is melted into hardness, and the clods cling fast together? Will you hunt the prey for the lion, or fill the appetite of the young lions, when they crouch in dens, and sit in the cover of their hiding place? Who provides food for the raven, when its young ones cry to God and wander about without food?


Here, in the oldest Book of the Holy Bible, we have Yahweh giving Job a clinic on creation.

Observe that God provides Job with a list of the creation BEFORE mankind!

Lions hunting for prey? Lions are carnivores. This means that they stalked and killed their food, as plainly stated in the text.

Ravens are omnivores – which means that they also ate meat – which means animal death.

So…as you can see, all these things transpired BEFORE the first humans.

Animal death existed BEFORE Adam sinned.

Simple, Biblical truth...

 

[Calminian]

Couple of questions...

1. Was Adam eternal when he was made?
2. Did Adam's years start when he sinned and became mortal?
3. List everything that took place on the 6th day before Eve was created?

Like I have said before.....The 6 days of creation could have been slowed down and it still be 6 evenings and 6 mornings...

1. The (sun) Earth stood still almost a day Joshua
2. The (sun) earth went back 10 degrees on the dial Hezekiah

Adam was made, put in the garden to tend it, named ALL of the animals etc. BEFORE GOD put him to sleep and MADE EVE....

Is it not possible that the earth could have had days that were days long yet in reality 1000 years each?

Just a question or two.......even though we have talked about this before...there are numerous questions that remain UNANSWERED when it comes to the actual age of the earth.......Personally I believe in a renovation of a destroyed earth by the fall of Satan......

God's Spirit came to be brooding over exactly what that was already here? Darkness, waters and the face of the deep!

Based upon God's ability to hold the earth in place or cause it to go back 10 degrees on the dial...could not God have slowed the revolution of the earth and it still be one evening and one morning for each day?

Keep working through it brother. As a former gapper let me offer some thoughts.

Adam was not made initially to die, hence the warning about the TOK. Adam is said to have "lived" 930 years, so that would have to include the time he live after he was created. On day six, Adam witnessed the creation of the Garden of Eden, and his wife. He also named the beasts of the field, which were animals that would be dwelling with him in Eden. I suppose he could have named all the animals on earth, if he had to in a day, but Garden of Eden account speaks specifically of beasts and plants "of the field." A field is that on which one plants a garden, and thus it seems to exclude those animals that would live outside of it.

I would say no, it's not possible that the days were 1000 years. That's not was Peter was at all implying. He was speaking of God's perception vs. our perception. To confirm this Moses compared the creation week, to our work week (Ex. 20-9-11). The creation days can no more be thousand-year periods than Joshua's days walking around Jericho.

Regarding Satan being the darkness of verse 2, this also is not compatible with what we read about him in Gen. 3 and Ezekiel 28. God cursed Satan in the Garden by symbolically taking away the snakes legs. And in Ezekiel 28 we read that Satan was once a good beautiful angel that walked about in the heavens and in the Garden of Eden.

Ezek. 28:12…..“ ‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.b
13 You were in Eden,a
the garden of God;b
every precious stonec adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoised and beryl.a
Your settings and mountingsb were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.e
14 You were anointeda as a guardian cherub,b
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
​

Adam was still good on the day Eden was created on day 6, so could not possibly have been some form of wickedness on day 1. Plus, there was nothing wicked about darkness in the beginning. God called the light/dark cycle, "very good" in after day 6.

Just some thoughts.

 

[dcontroversal]

Keep working through it brother. As a former gapper let me offer some thoughts.

Adam was not made initial to die, hence the warning about the TOK. Adam is said to have "lived" 930 years, so that would have to include the time he live after he was created. On day six, Adam witnessed the creation of the Garden of Eden, and his wife. He also named the beasts of the field, which were animals that would be dwelling with him in Eden. I suppose he could have named all the animals on earth, if he had to in a day, but Garden of Eden account speaks specifically of beasts and plants "of the field." A field is that on which one plants a garden, and thus it seems to exclude those animals that would live outside of it.

I would say no, it's not possible that the days were 1000 years. That's not was Peter was at all implying. He was speaking of God's perception vs. our perception. To confirm this Moses compared the creation week, to our work week (Ex. 20-9-11). The creation days can no be be thousand years periods than Joshua's days walking around Jericho were thousand year periods.

Regarding Satan being the darkness of verse 2, this also is not compatible with what we read about him in Gen. 3 and Ezekiel 28. God cursed Satan in the Garden by symbolically taking away the snakes legs. And in Ezekiel 28 we read that Satan was once a good beautiful angel that walked about in the heavens and in the Garden of Eden.

Ezek. 28:12…..“ ‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.b
13 You were in Eden,a
the garden of God;b
every precious stonec adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoised and beryl.a
Your settings and mountingsb were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.e
14 You were anointeda as a guardian cherub,b
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.​

Nice response and much appreciated......You know I have thoroughly investigated this and have not completely made up my mind as of yet...although I do lean toward creation being wrecked by his fall as I believe Lucifer was on the planet and then attempted to MOVE his appointed place ABOVE the STARS of God when he attempted to ASCEND....and was then cast back down to the earth......

Again...explain the following that WERE ALREADY HERE

1. DARKNESS
2. WATERS
3. FACE of the DEEP

What does the dragon cast out of his mouth in REVELATION in an attempt to annihilate ISRAEL and what happens to the FLOOD that he (SATAN) uses in an attempt to destroy ISRAEL...?

Again, appreciate the response which is way better than a mouthy comment and attempt to cram what another man teaches down my throat!

 

[dcontroversal]

Keep working through it brother. As a former gapper let me offer some thoughts.

Adam was not made initially to die, hence the warning about the TOK. Adam is said to have "lived" 930 years, so that would have to include the time he live after he was created. On day six, Adam witnessed the creation of the Garden of Eden, and his wife. He also named the beasts of the field, which were animals that would be dwelling with him in Eden. I suppose he could have named all the animals on earth, if he had to in a day, but Garden of Eden account speaks specifically of beasts and plants "of the field." A field is that on which one plants a garden, and thus it seems to exclude those animals that would live outside of it.

I would say no, it's not possible that the days were 1000 years. That's not was Peter was at all implying. He was speaking of God's perception vs. our perception. To confirm this Moses compared the creation week, to our work week (Ex. 20-9-11). The creation days can no more be thousand-year periods than Joshua's days walking around Jericho.

Regarding Satan being the darkness of verse 2, this also is not compatible with what we read about him in Gen. 3 and Ezekiel 28. God cursed Satan in the Garden by symbolically taking away the snakes legs. And in Ezekiel 28 we read that Satan was once a good beautiful angel that walked about in the heavens and in the Garden of Eden.

Ezek. 28:12…..“ ‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.b
13 You were in Eden,a
the garden of God;b
every precious stonec adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoised and beryl.a
Your settings and mountingsb were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.e
14 You were anointeda as a guardian cherub,b
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
​

Adam was still good on the day Eden was created on day 6, so could not possibly have been some form of wickedness on day 1. Plus, there was nothing wicked about darkness in the beginning. God called the light/dark cycle, "very good" in after day 6.

Just some thoughts.

Another thought....God specifically calls everything GOOD except the heaven and man......he does generalize about all that is good in one verse.....note....verses 4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25 man not specifically called good like in the preceding verses and heaven on second day not called GOOD.....all generalized in verse 31

Heaven<---prince of the power of the air already here
MAN<------none good no not one

Having intently studied for 25 plus years...the above tells me that there was a reason that GOD did not specifically apply good unto heaven and man for a reason like he did the rest......Just a thought.

 

[Calminian]

Death before sin


Job 38.25 - 41

Who has cut a channel for the flood; or a way for the thunderclaps, to make it rain on the earth where no man is, a wilderness and no man in it; to satisfy the waste and desolation, and to cause the source of grass to sprout? Is there a father for the rain? Or who has given birth to the drops of dew? From whose womb comes forth the ice; and the frost of the heavens, who fathered it; the waters hidden like stone, and the face of the deep is captured? Can you bind the bands of the Pleiades, or loosen the cords of Orion? Can you bring out the constellations in their season; or can you guide the Bear with its sons? Do you know the limits of the heavens; can you establish their rulership on the earth? Can you lift your voice to the clouds, so that floods of water may cover you? Can you send lightnings, that they may go and say to you, Here we are? Who has put wisdom in the inward parts; or who has given understanding to the mind? Who can by wisdom number the clouds or who can lay down the jars of the heavens, when the dust is melted into hardness, and the clods cling fast together? Will you hunt the prey for the lion, or fill the appetite of the young lions, when they crouch in dens, and sit in the cover of their hiding place? Who provides food for the raven, when its young ones cry to God and wander about without food?


Here, in the oldest Book of the Holy Bible, we have Yahweh giving Job a clinic on creation.

Observe that God provides Job with a list of the creation BEFORE mankind!

Lions hunting for prey? Lions are carnivores. This means that they stalked and killed their food, as plainly stated in the text.

Ravens are omnivores – which means that they also ate meat – which means animal death.

So…as you can see, all these things transpired BEFORE the first humans.

Animal death existed BEFORE Adam sinned.

Simple, Biblical truth...

Just one correction, Job may be the oldest book in the Bible in its final form, but the writings of Genesis are older, as Moses was very likely to have used existing writings to put the Genesis record together. In fact, in chapter 5 of Genesis we see a reference to the "book of the generations of Adam." Literally from the hebrew, this [is] the account of the book of Adam. We see other toledoth statements all throughout Genesis.

That said, the interpretation you offer above is strange to say the least. You seem to be implying that Job was a pre-adamic man??

Job was written after the Flood, likely sometime after the tower of Babel and before Abraham. We see signs of the ice age in Job, which is why most creationists believe it was written during the ice age that was triggered by the Flood. We also see the description of a dinosaur like creature (perhaps a saurapod) in Job (Behemoth) which ate grass and had a tail like a cedar tree (40:15). This is another reason most creationists believe that Job lived very early after the Flood.

But there is nothing in Job that subtracts or corrects anything said in Genesis chapter 1 which expressly states that all animals were plant eaters in the beginning, as were humans (gen. 1:29-30). The fact that Job ate meat, was not proof that his ancestor Adam ate meat. Job was a descendant of Noah, who lived in the postdiluvian world. He did not predate Adam as you are suggesting.

Thus, carnivorous animals existing in Job's time cannot possibly prove that the original animals were carnivorous. The argument is a non sequitur, from what I can tell, but correct me if I missed something.

 

[Calminian]

Another thought....God specifically calls everything GOOD except the heaven and man......he does generalize about all that is good in one verse.....note....verses 4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25 man not specifically called good like in the preceding verses and heaven on second day not called GOOD.....all generalized in verse 31

Heaven<---prince of the power of the air already here
MAN<------none good no not one

Having intently studied for 25 plus years...the above tells me that there was a reason that GOD did not specifically apply good unto heaven and man for a reason like he did the rest......Just a thought.

I'll respectfully disagree on this point as well. God actually called both Adam and Eve "very good."

Gen. 1:31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

This was stated after the completion of the 6th day, and the creation of Adam and Eve. They are most definitely included in the "everything."

 

[dcontroversal]

I'll respectfully disagree on this point as well. God actually called both Adam and Eve "very good."

Gen. 1:31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

This was stated after the completion of the 6th day, and the creation of Adam and Eve. They are most definitely included in the "everything."

Yes I said he generalized about it in verse 31....so God being a God of specific words and wording why did he not state it about the HEAVEN and MAN when man was made like he did the rest.....there has got to be a reason as GOD does not mince words or make mistakes with words and or leave out words accidently?

 

[Cycel]

The age of the earth is curiously researched by scientific means without end.

This seems an odd thing to say. What point are you making?

Days could be years, years could be thousands.

This sounds really odd. How familiar are you with science?

When the sun was created, I would say that the earth was spinning by then. So at least from that point on there were nights and days real close to what we have today.

According to scripture the sun was made three days after the creation of the earth. You cannot have night and day without the sun, so something is wrong with scripture.

 

[dcontroversal]

I'll respectfully disagree on this point as well. God actually called both Adam and Eve "very good."

Gen. 1:31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

This was stated after the completion of the 6th day, and the creation of Adam and Eve. They are most definitely included in the "everything."

Again.....I ask you and TINMAN to explain the following....

Again...explain the following that WERE ALREADY HERE

1. DARKNESS
2. WATERS
3. FACE of the DEEP

 

[Calminian]

Nice response and much appreciated......You know I have thoroughly investigated this and have not completely made up my mind as of yet...although I do lean toward creation being wrecked by his fall as I believe Lucifer was on the planet and then attempted to MOVE his appointed place ABOVE the STARS of God when he attempted to ASCEND....and was then cast back down to the earth......

Again...explain the following that WERE ALREADY HERE

1. DARKNESS
2. WATERS
3. FACE of the DEEP

What does the dragon cast out of his mouth in REVELATION in an attempt to annihilate ISRAEL and what happens to the FLOOD that he (SATAN) uses in an attempt to destroy ISRAEL...?

Again, appreciate the response which is way better than a mouthy comment and attempt to cram what another man teaches down my throat!

Darkness was very good in the beginning, via v. 31. There was nothing bad about it. The day night cycle was good. The waters were the initial building blocks of the universe. Peter says the land was made out of the water.

2Pet. 3:5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water.

I don't believe the waters in verse 2, 6-8 were oceans waters, mainly because the ocean was not made until day 3 (v. 9-10). In the beginning the waters were the unformed and unfilled earth or land. in essence the account is saying that in the beginning, the land was unformed and unfilled. The mass was there, the waters, but no solid formation. Then God formed it on day 3 and filled it on days 5-6.

Ironically, there are actually trillions of gallons of water in outer space and many secular scientists believe now that water may have been a primary building block of the universe.

But regardless, scripture seems to imply that both the land and the sea were made from these original waters in Genesis 1. Think of Christ turning water into wine. In the beginning, he turned water into our planet and possibly our universe.

Regarding Satan and the dragon, I'm not sure which passages you're referring to.

Just a side note too, there really isn't a proper noun "Lucifer" in the Bible. It's sort of a King James thing, in which they used a latin transliteration, but the word there is not referring to a name. Satan's name was likely Satan from the beginning.

 

[Bowman]

Just one correction, Job may be the oldest book in the Bible in its final form, but the writings of Genesis are older, as Moses was very likely to have used existing writings to put the Genesis record together. In fact, in chapter 5 of Genesis we see a reference to the "book of the generations of Adam." Literally from the hebrew, this [is] the account of the book of Adam. We see other toledoth statements all throughout Genesis.

Bring forth some specific examples of this copying for comparison...

That said, the interpretation you offer above is strange to say the least. You seem to be implying that Job was a pre-adamic man??

No....that would be your assertion, not that of the scripture quoted...remember, this is Yahweh giving Job a clinic on creation.

Job was not at creation anymore than Moses was.

This is just another chapter-length Biblical creation account, among many...and we must take every account into consideration.

Job was written after the Flood, likely sometime after the tower of Babel and before Abraham. We see signs of the ice age in Job, which is why most creationists believe it was written during the ice age that was triggered by the Flood. We also see the description of a dinosaur like creature (perhaps a saurapod) in Job (Behemoth) which ate grass and had a tail like a cedar tree (40:15). This is another reason most creationists believe that Job lived very early after the Flood.

That is some pretty far-fetched YEC reasoning....

But there is nothing in Job that subtracts or corrects anything said in Genesis chapter 1 which expressly states that all animals were plant eaters in the beginning, as were humans (gen. 1:29-30).

Gen 1 is a linear list of one-liner creation statements.

There are numerous chapter-length creation stories contained in scripture which supplement each Gen 1 creation 'day'.

Don't turn away from those...

The fact that Job ate meat, was not proof that his ancestor Adam ate meat. Job was a descendant of Noah, who lived in the postdiluvian world. He did not predate Adam as you are suggesting.

You missed it, entirely.

Yahweh declares to Job that animals ate EACH other BEFORE mankind was even created.

Read it...

Thus, carnivorous animals existing in Job's time cannot possibly prove that the original animals were carnivorous. The argument is a non sequitur, from what I can tell, but correct me if I missed something.

Please take off the YEC blinders and show us where the quoted scripture says anything other than animals eating other animals BEFORE mankind entered the scene...

 

[dcontroversal]

Lets us take this back a step.....

GOD's Spirit came to be brooding over three things listed that were already here

DARKNESS
WATERS and
THE FACE of the DEEP

SO...EVERYBODY explain this first!

 

[Cycel]

Thus, carnivorous animals existing in Job's time cannot possibly prove that the original animals were carnivorous. The argument is a non sequitur, from what I can tell, but correct me if I missed something.

Fossil remains would give you the answer. Carnivores require a different set of teeth and a different gut. Now we can even study the genome so you could prove, or disprove, that lions in Adam's time ate plants. Do you know of any creation scientists searching for remains that would prove the case for Genesis?

I believe DNA has been retrieved from bones that are as much as 70,000 years old. Oh, Neanderthals ate meat, or did they use those big spears for killing plants?

All kidding aside, an ancient earth is so well supported by every line of research that no reasonable person doubts it.

 

[Bowman]

Lets us take this back a step.....

GOD's Spirit came to be brooding over three things listed that were already here

DARKNESS
WATERS and
THE FACE of the DEEP

SO...EVERYBODY explain this first!

This is the vantage point for the Gen 1 narrative...above the surface of an ocean-covered earth that is completely blanketed with clouds so that sun light cannot penetrate.

 

[Calminian]

Bring forth some specific examples of this copying for comparison…

Here's a good starter article on the subject.

The Tablet Theory of Genesis Authorship
True Origin
Curt Sewell © 1998-2001 by Curt Sewell

Gen 1 is a linear list of one-liner creation statements.

There are numerous chapter-length creation stories contained in scripture which supplement each Gen 1 creation 'day'.

Yahweh declares to Job that animals ate EACH other BEFORE mankind was even created.

Read it...

Please take off the YEC blinders and show us where the quoted scripture says anything other than animals eating other animals BEFORE mankind entered the scene...

I'm sorry, I see nothing at all indicating this in Job or Genesis. I've quoted where God assigned plants as food for humans and animals. I've showed you were animals will return to this in the restoration. I've showed you where God called everything very good. I've showed you where Adam and Eve were made at the beginning of creation, not at the end of the creation timeline as you believe. (Mark 10:6)

I even pointed out to you that a dinosaur was talked about in chapter 40, and this animal is said to have been created with Job.

15 “Look at Behemoth,
which I madea along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.b
16 What strengtha it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!b
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.a

Can you let me know what animal you think this is that eats grass and has a tail like a tree?



I've seen nothing but some very inapplicable quotes from Job, and some wild conclusions being drawn from them.