Stop Arguing about Law under Grace
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My heart is delighted with a beautiful theme.
Psa 133:1
A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Psa 133:2 It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;
Psa 133:3
As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.
Psa 133:1
A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Psa 133:2 It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;
Psa 133:3
As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.
I was reading the Psalms the other day a noticed something that I have never really put together before. The word of God is astounding!
In the “Feast of Tabernacles,” I found that there are certain measurements of flour mixed with oil to be offered with the Bullock, being an allegory, or comparison, representing the attributes, and sovereignty of Jesus Christ. This measurement was called an “omer” which means promise.
Psalm 68:11 The Lord gave the word: (Strong's 562) great was the company of those that published it.
562 'omer o'-mer the same as 561:--promise, speech, thing, word.
561 'emer ay'-mer from 559; something said:--answer, X appointed unto him, saying, speech, word.
So the word is promise, and is related with well beaten flour. With the feast of tabernacles there are 3 omers offered with the Bullock.
Is there anyone who wants to expand on this subject? I would like to read whatever anyone would like to contribute.
In the “Feast of Tabernacles,” I found that there are certain measurements of flour mixed with oil to be offered with the Bullock, being an allegory, or comparison, representing the attributes, and sovereignty of Jesus Christ. This measurement was called an “omer” which means promise.
Psalm 68:11 The Lord gave the word: (Strong's 562) great was the company of those that published it.
562 'omer o'-mer the same as 561:--promise, speech, thing, word.
561 'emer ay'-mer from 559; something said:--answer, X appointed unto him, saying, speech, word.
So the word is promise, and is related with well beaten flour. With the feast of tabernacles there are 3 omers offered with the Bullock.
Is there anyone who wants to expand on this subject? I would like to read whatever anyone would like to contribute.
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I do not think the sword of the Christian ever gets dull. Our sword is the word of God. It is a two-edged sword guided by the Holy Spirit piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit. With surgical precision the sword separates the world from us and brings us closer to our Lord.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
First of all I would like to make two statements.
"We are justified by the blood of Christ, by our faith"
"We are justified by the blood of Christ, by our works"
Now I can almost bet each one of us is thinking about how we can argue our particular point of view according to the Bible. We will go back and forth arguing with the same scripture and same argument we always use. Neither person will bend or fold on their view.
Here is the kicker...by this time we have forgotten the first 8 words of each statement. All 8 words are the same. So instead of agreeing on those 8 words we will end up in a heated debate about the last 3 words.
There are 11 words in each statement. The majority of those words we can agree on but we would rather debate about the minority.
I believe in a vote...the majority wins.
Just my thought.
"We are justified by the blood of Christ, by our faith"
"We are justified by the blood of Christ, by our works"
Now I can almost bet each one of us is thinking about how we can argue our particular point of view according to the Bible. We will go back and forth arguing with the same scripture and same argument we always use. Neither person will bend or fold on their view.
Here is the kicker...by this time we have forgotten the first 8 words of each statement. All 8 words are the same. So instead of agreeing on those 8 words we will end up in a heated debate about the last 3 words.
There are 11 words in each statement. The majority of those words we can agree on but we would rather debate about the minority.
I believe in a vote...the majority wins.
Just my thought.
I don't 
Gal 1:6 I wonder that you are so quickly turning back from the One having called you by the grace of Christ to another gospel,
Gal 1:7 which is not another; only there are some troubling you, even determined to pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel out of Heaven, should preach a gospel to you beside the gospel we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel beside what you received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:6 I wonder that you are so quickly turning back from the One having called you by the grace of Christ to another gospel,
Gal 1:7 which is not another; only there are some troubling you, even determined to pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel out of Heaven, should preach a gospel to you beside the gospel we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel beside what you received, let him be accursed.
I have never read a post, not one, that says we are justified by works. That is one principle of God that everyone seems to agree on. I have read post after post that says they know people who say that, and those posters delight in accusing, judging, and saying how much smarter and knowledgeable they are that they know that and these phantom people who they accuse of saying that prove themselves dumber than they are.
AS far as "majority wins", we are a Christian site after truth, not majority rules in dictating to God about how He is.
AS far as "majority wins", we are a Christian site after truth, not majority rules in dictating to God about how He is.
Maybe there ought to be a thread that says "arguing is not edifying so let's learn instead of burn." Wadaya think?
I am not good at turning the other cheek, most of these posters are so with the Lord they do that! I should learn from them.
Merci bien M. Nerval. Mais on ne doit pas etre desdichado quand il est en Jesus Christ, n'est-ce pas?
This is the point of the OP. The two factions in this particular dispute are in the same Hand and woshipping the same Lord, Jesus Christ, and whether they are able to admit it or not, they are in agreement in spirit and by the written Word enlightened by the Holy Spirit. We live in grace, and we choose to obey our Father. It is only natural, and, by the way, it is spiritual too.
This is the point of the OP. The two factions in this particular dispute are in the same Hand and woshipping the same Lord, Jesus Christ, and whether they are able to admit it or not, they are in agreement in spirit and by the written Word enlightened by the Holy Spirit. We live in grace, and we choose to obey our Father. It is only natural, and, by the way, it is spiritual too.
In my morning Hebrew study of the New Testament I was reading about being "under the law." In Hebrew it does say "under" but it also has the word "mishtar" following, which means rule, authority, government and more.
With the above in mind, those who choose to obey the wisdom of the law may declare in all truth they are free of the rule, the authority, the government etc. of the law because they live free of the law in the grace given by Jesus Christ. This by no means is saying the law is bad for the law is holy, and our faith establishes the law,
There for we abide by the laws according the Example of Jesus Christ, which I hav posted many times (Elin), but we are free of its authority, governement, rule. We do this out of respect of God's wisdome and authority. In this latter sense we are all under the authority, rule, government of God. When our Father tells us to be good, and actually gives us the ho-wo manual, I think it is holy and good to obey Him, right? This in no manner takes away from the grace given us each when we falter.
Peace, love and all blessings to all who believe Jesus Christ, and may God's light reach all who do not yet believe Him, amen.
None of the above is intended for those who believer they are already perfect.
With the above in mind, those who choose to obey the wisdom of the law may declare in all truth they are free of the rule, the authority, the government etc. of the law because they live free of the law in the grace given by Jesus Christ. This by no means is saying the law is bad for the law is holy, and our faith establishes the law,
There for we abide by the laws according the Example of Jesus Christ, which I hav posted many times (Elin), but we are free of its authority, governement, rule. We do this out of respect of God's wisdome and authority. In this latter sense we are all under the authority, rule, government of God. When our Father tells us to be good, and actually gives us the ho-wo manual, I think it is holy and good to obey Him, right? This in no manner takes away from the grace given us each when we falter.
Peace, love and all blessings to all who believe Jesus Christ, and may God's light reach all who do not yet believe Him, amen.
None of the above is intended for those who believer they are already perfect.
Good point. When we govern ourselves by our faith given to us by the Holy Spirit, we abide within the governing powers of God's commandments by choice, both from the old and new, (all being within the new) because we live by every word God has ever spoken. This is the law of liberty
If, on the other hand, we have no self-motivation to abide by God's holy/spiritual principles given in His law, the governing authority of righteous actions are forced actions of righteousness being works only minus any faith. No faith prohibits the law from being written on the heart and mind of this faithless individual. That is being under the law.
Do I have that right?
If, on the other hand, we have no self-motivation to abide by God's holy/spiritual principles given in His law, the governing authority of righteous actions are forced actions of righteousness being works only minus any faith. No faith prohibits the law from being written on the heart and mind of this faithless individual. That is being under the law.
Do I have that right?
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I am not certain, but it seems so. My mind goes to the teaching of our God through Isaiah, and of the increase of His government there will be no end. Thus we are not under the government of the law but under the government of Jesus Christ, rendering our obedience as a love offering, a freewill offering as it were, acknowledgine the origin of all wisdom and true knowleged, God Almighty. If we do not acknowledge our Maker, our faith is something feigned or not yet understood. If this latter is the case, the believer is still a child, no better off than the bond servant.
The truth is, those who truly believe that grace covers all may be family in Jesus Chrsit, but they are still on the milk of the teachings of the Gospel, not yet fully understanding that what God says is never a suggestion, but truth, and this includes above all His commandments, especially His commandments. So I regard them as family in Jesus Christ but not yet in the full light of Jesus Christ if they teach the law is abolished in any manner, for it is not abolished according to Jesus Christ, and any who teach agains the least of these commandments will be least in the Kingdome. This seems to be a very difficult lesson for many, so we must continue in prayer for them
The truth is, those who truly believe that grace covers all may be family in Jesus Chrsit, but they are still on the milk of the teachings of the Gospel, not yet fully understanding that what God says is never a suggestion, but truth, and this includes above all His commandments, especially His commandments. So I regard them as family in Jesus Christ but not yet in the full light of Jesus Christ if they teach the law is abolished in any manner, for it is not abolished according to Jesus Christ, and any who teach agains the least of these commandments will be least in the Kingdome. This seems to be a very difficult lesson for many, so we must continue in prayer for them
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I see. I think.
In this case you describe, does the adversary desire the law to be abolished and uses unlearned children of God who are still on the milk? Then if the children of God teach that we can break even one of the laws of God are not lost, but will be the least in God's kingdom, if I'm understanding what you are saying the correct way. Is this how satan used he pharisees to distort the truth of the law? But then the Pharisees were told that their father was the devil so this might not be the best comparison.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do . He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
In this case you describe, does the adversary desire the law to be abolished and uses unlearned children of God who are still on the milk? Then if the children of God teach that we can break even one of the laws of God are not lost, but will be the least in God's kingdom, if I'm understanding what you are saying the correct way. Is this how satan used he pharisees to distort the truth of the law? But then the Pharisees were told that their father was the devil so this might not be the best comparison.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do . He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
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I would not go so far as to say Satan has a whole lot to do with this rather the conceit of the learned traditions of man as commandment from our Father. This was the guilt of the Pharisees who taught such. Many who believe today still cling to preconceived notions or teachings from modern day pharisees instead of studying the Word from God, Himself. This is the nature of man when he does not fully rely on Jesus Christ. If those teaching against God's will are least in the Kingdom, they are yet in the Kingdom, so they are beloved in the sight of God, and should be so in our vision. We speak and repeat what we know from the Word to those who speak and repeat what they hear "about " the Word from those modern day Pharisees. It is a shame, but it forms just a small portion of the apostasy foretold us by Jesus Christ. Now it is nap time for this senior......
I see. I think.
In this case you describe, does the adversary desire the law to be abolished and uses unlearned children of God who are still on the milk? Then if the children of God teach that we can break even one of the laws of God are not lost, but will be the least in the kingdom of Christ, if I'm understanding what you are saying the correct way. Is this how satan used he pharisees to distort the truth of the law? But then the Pharisees were told that their father was the devil so this might not be the best comparison.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do . He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
In this case you describe, does the adversary desire the law to be abolished and uses unlearned children of God who are still on the milk? Then if the children of God teach that we can break even one of the laws of God are not lost, but will be the least in the kingdom of Christ, if I'm understanding what you are saying the correct way. Is this how satan used he pharisees to distort the truth of the law? But then the Pharisees were told that their father was the devil so this might not be the best comparison.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do . He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
B
I would like to hear how you define a modern day Pharisee, at least compare them to the ones we see in the gospels during and after the time of Christ. What was their creed, what did they adhere to and what was their perception of others in relationship to their dogma? How did they relate to sin, to the law and to those who violated the law? Why were they so angry with Paul and the word that he preached, when he was also a Pharisee, even a Pharisee among Pharisees? Why did many believing Jews in Jerusalem think that Paul taught the Jews among the Gentiles to forsake Moses (including what he taught concerning the law), to put away circumcision and the customs they had learned?