*read this This is the post I was referring to in the previous post. The link was messed up Redtent. Sorry.
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Stop Arguing about Law under Grace
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*read this This is the post I was referring to in the previous post. The link was messed up Redtent. Sorry.
Keeping in mind that this falls somewhat short of a description of life in the new covenant.
For we live not only by the "example" of Jesus Christ.
We live by all that the Son has spoken in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers, which is myriads more than just Jesus' example in the gospels.
For we live not only by the "example" of Jesus Christ.
We live by all that the Son has spoken in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers, which is myriads more than just Jesus' example in the gospels.
P
Do you vote liberal? You think like them. "If I attack and accuse the other side of being mean-spirited I will look like the good one even tho I am so far wrong it isn't funny".
You acknowledge you're in the wrong by keeping the law, acknowledge failure is the destiny of those who try, try to keep it anyway, and then attempt to castigate anyone who points it out.
Feel free to put me on ignore, because certainly you're not getting a free pass from me.
You acknowledge you're in the wrong by keeping the law, acknowledge failure is the destiny of those who try, try to keep it anyway, and then attempt to castigate anyone who points it out.
Feel free to put me on ignore, because certainly you're not getting a free pass from me.
. . .much love.
B
Let's take the following verses and substitute the word 'LAW' for the word 'GRACE' and see what kind of understanding you get.
Titus 2:11,12 For the 'LAW' of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Romans 5:20,21 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, the 'LAW' did much more abound:That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might the 'LAW' reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Eph 3:2,7,8 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the 'LAW' of God which is given me to you-ward:Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the 'LAW' of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this 'LAW' given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the 'LAW' of Moses unto another gospel:
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister the 'LAW' unto the hearers.
This is an eye opener as to the what it means to be under grace and not the law.
Titus 2:11,12 For the 'LAW' of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Romans 5:20,21 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, the 'LAW' did much more abound:That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might the 'LAW' reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Eph 3:2,7,8 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the 'LAW' of God which is given me to you-ward:Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the 'LAW' of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this 'LAW' given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the 'LAW' of Moses unto another gospel:
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister the 'LAW' unto the hearers.
This is an eye opener as to the what it means to be under grace and not the law.
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Jesus did say, if you love Him, you will do what He tells you. i don't want Jesus to tell me some day, that He never knew me, that would be crushing. Jesus said look to Him, not man. It is written, His people are a peculiar people, different from the world, standing out in a crowd, a light shining in darkness. Casual christianity doesn't seem to fit in the Word. The Word says to me, be diligent, have integrity, practice good works. The Word has never said to me, sin doesn't exist where grace abounds. The Almighty, will take away and cover our sins, with His grace and mercy, when we confess and repent, but not until. How many times does one need to go around a mountain, before they see the prize is in front of them? Why make a two week journey into a 40 year journey, and still not see the promised land?
My eyes are open. As long as we are distorting scripture let me add...
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the "faith" through "law"? God forbid : yea, we establish the "faith".
Is there a difference?
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.
Does the law make faith void, or does faith make the law void? Seems that rightly dividing scripture it is saying these 2 things work in coordination with each other.
How's this sound?
Do you then make void the law through faith? Ya that's it, because the law cannot be established at all, even through faith because it's so old and corrupt.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the "faith" through "law"? God forbid : yea, we establish the "faith".
Is there a difference?
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.
Does the law make faith void, or does faith make the law void? Seems that rightly dividing scripture it is saying these 2 things work in coordination with each other.
How's this sound?
Do you then make void the law through faith? Ya that's it, because the law cannot be established at all, even through faith because it's so old and corrupt.
Yes for sure we are saved by God's grace. We then (immediately) are given the gift of faith through the Holy Spirit of the same God who shed His grace on us. Then because of that reality and substance of faith we begin to see the Spiritual concepts of the law, desiring to properly represent our Lord in Spirit and in truth. Take away the grace of God and nothing matters concerning how salvation really works. Salvation is a way of life that causes a believer to increase in faith. It's not a thing of the past. Being born again is the beginning of salvation.
2 Corinthians 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased , that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Hebrews 11:1-2
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed ; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Romans 8:24a For we are saved by hope:
Psalm 199:115-116
115 Depart from me, ye evildoers : for I will keep the commandments of my God.
116 Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live : and let me not be ashamed of my hope.
Jeremiah 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed , and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.
Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
2 Corinthians 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased , that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Hebrews 11:1-2
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed ; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Romans 8:24a For we are saved by hope:
Psalm 199:115-116
115 Depart from me, ye evildoers : for I will keep the commandments of my God.
116 Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live : and let me not be ashamed of my hope.
Jeremiah 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed , and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.
Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
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Being born again into eternal life is salvation,
for salvation is from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on one's guilt,
which is removed through saving faith at the new birth.
It's a one-time completed action of the Holy Spirit.
Being born again is the beginning of eternal life by the Holy Spirit,
where one walks in the obedience of saving faith through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
for salvation is from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on one's guilt,
which is removed through saving faith at the new birth.
It's a one-time completed action of the Holy Spirit.
Being born again is the beginning of eternal life by the Holy Spirit,
where one walks in the obedience of saving faith through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
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B
The post and exercise was meant not to distort the scriptures but to illustrate the difference between the law and grace. Your point concerning (Rom 3:31) has nothing to do with us establishing the law through deeds or in keeping it. The law is not established in that manner. There are two points concerning the law, one being our relationship to the law and the second is the relationship of the law to sinners saved by grace. Which point is Paul making when he says...'Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The laws relationship to us is not made void by our faith because the law does not change. If I covet, I have sinned and offended Christ and the Holy Spirit. Our faith in the righteousness of Christ that justifies us does not change the law, but it is not the law that justifies us when we were sinners or when we sin, rather the sinner is justified by grace and the blood of Christ. Our faith in the righteousness of Christ establishes the law for the purpose of which the law was given, because of transgressions and to make sin exceedingly sinful, so that the whole world would be guilty and every mouth might be stopped of boasting of their own righteousness.
However, the law has been made void for the purpose of establishing righteousness through its deeds and made inoperative because Christ bore our sin and was crucified on the cross, putting and taking away all sin, offering his own righteousness to the Father on our behalf and has also given the Holy Spirit unto those who believe in his blood sacrifice for all sin. So our relationship to the law has changed and we are no longer under the law for righteousnes but under grace making the law inoperative because we now have the Spirit that has made us new creatures in Christ and who convicts the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment. When we walk and are led by the Spirit through faith we are not under the law and we live by the glory of the ministration of the Spirit that has exceeded and excelled the law, making it obsolete and causing it to vanish away.
The laws relationship to us is not made void by our faith because the law does not change. If I covet, I have sinned and offended Christ and the Holy Spirit. Our faith in the righteousness of Christ that justifies us does not change the law, but it is not the law that justifies us when we were sinners or when we sin, rather the sinner is justified by grace and the blood of Christ. Our faith in the righteousness of Christ establishes the law for the purpose of which the law was given, because of transgressions and to make sin exceedingly sinful, so that the whole world would be guilty and every mouth might be stopped of boasting of their own righteousness.
However, the law has been made void for the purpose of establishing righteousness through its deeds and made inoperative because Christ bore our sin and was crucified on the cross, putting and taking away all sin, offering his own righteousness to the Father on our behalf and has also given the Holy Spirit unto those who believe in his blood sacrifice for all sin. So our relationship to the law has changed and we are no longer under the law for righteousnes but under grace making the law inoperative because we now have the Spirit that has made us new creatures in Christ and who convicts the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment. When we walk and are led by the Spirit through faith we are not under the law and we live by the glory of the ministration of the Spirit that has exceeded and excelled the law, making it obsolete and causing it to vanish away.
