When did God first reveal himself to humans?

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C

Celsus

Guest
#81
The onus is upon YOU, as you posited it in the first place.

Now....drum roll....argue your googled 'best point'....rotflol...
The arguments and conclusions have already been made by the scholars.
I'm just making them accessible and providing commentary. The data from
textual criticism, archaeology, and epigraphy is in. Now the onus is on you
to refute the scholar's points.

You're like a person who has been given a treasure map with a big X on it
and you ask "b-b-but where's the treasure?"

It's like you're asking "what's north of the North Pole?"

Can old dogs learn new tricks?
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#82
Tardly...

The arguments and conclusions have already been made by the scholars.
I'm just making them accessible and providing commentary. The data from
textual criticism, archaeology, and epigraphy is in. Now the onus is on you
to refute the scholar's points.

You're like a person who has been given a treasure map with a big X on it
and you ask "b-b-but where's the treasure?"

It's like you're asking "what's north of the North Pole?"

Can old dogs learn new tricks?

All you are doing is slavishly googling wiki, regurgitating what you have google-copy-pasted, and then demanding that we refute it.

Anyone with a pulse can do that.

Now...impress me...and prove to me that you can actually argue and defend ANY one of your so-called sources.




Un-moved.
 
C

Celsus

Guest
#83
Actually Archaelogical discoveries have more than supported the Bible, they have proved that people in the Bible and events were real.
You're arguing against a strawman. I have no problem believing some of the events in
the Bible are true. It does not follow that if some events are true then the entire book
is as well.

Davy Crockett was a real person. Does that mean you should believe all the tales about him?

Spiderman lives in NYC. NYC is a real place. Does that mean Spiderman is real?

"During the last two centuries, Biblical criticism has progressively dismantled the historicity
of creation and flood, then of the patriarchs, then
(in chronological order) of the exodus and
of the conquest, of Moses and
Joshua, then the period of Judges and the ‘twelve tribe league’,
stopping at
the era of the ‘United Monarchy’ of David and Solomon, which was still considered
substantially historical. The realization that foundational epi
sodes of conquest and law-giving
were in fact post-exilic retrojections,
aiming to justify the national and religious unity and the
possession of the
land by groups of returnees from the Babylonian exile, implied a degree of
rewriting of the history of Israel, but did not challenge the idea that Israel was a united (and
powerful) state at the time of David and Solomon and
that a ‘First Temple’ really existed.
Hence the return from exile was under
stood as recreating an ethnic, political and religious
reality that had existed
in the past."Foreward, Liverani
Israel's History and the History of Israel - Mario Liverani
 
Apr 14, 2014
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#84
Your getting off track of your original question

How about we take a breath and go back to what you are talking about in your post because one can get lost without scripture (Me)


there is a saying that goes

(Matthew 13:14) It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see.

I want to understand what your saying but your so in tuned with the other guy I think you miss the other post.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
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#85
TNow the onus is on you
to refute the scholar's points.

do you want to play 'trade scholars'? sounds fun!
here, watch this scholar's 80 minute video. there are links in the description for several more hours of video. it's about textual criticism, archaeology and epigraphy.

[video=youtube_share;NWawVUZg3Es]http://youtu.be/NWawVUZg3Es[/video]



 
C

Celsus

Guest
#86
Re: Tardly...

All you are doing is slavishly googling wiki, regurgitating what you have google-copy-pasted, and then demanding that we refute it.

Anyone with a pulse can do that.

Now...impress me...and prove to me that you can actually argue and defend ANY one of your so-called sources.




Un-moved.
Ok. In the early days of Israelite Yahweh worship he originally
had a wife/consort. Her name was Asherah. We know this from
the archaeological inscriptions found at Kuntillet Ajrud that read
"Yahweh of Samaria and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Teman
and his Asherah."

They sure left that part out of the Bible!

Conclusion: There's two Yahwehs and a goddess.
Might wanna update your prayers accordingly.

kuntillet-ajrud.jpg
Screen shot 2014-09-20 at 11.05.54 PM.png

Source:
Archaeology and Fertility Cult in the Ancient Mediterranean: Papers ... - Google Books

By the way, I could have saved a lot of time and just linked this.
Kuntillet Ajrud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
C

Celsus

Guest
#87

do you want to play 'trade scholars'? sounds fun!
here, watch this scholar's 80 minute video. there are links in the description for several more hours of video. it's about textual criticism, archaeology and epigraphy.
[video=youtube;laOzwFA5k60]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laOzwFA5k60[/video]
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
113
#88
[video=youtube;laOzwFA5k60]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laOzwFA

now, it's only been 15 mins. i know you have not watched the video i posted yet :)
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#89
Re: Tardly...

Ok. In the early days of Israelite Yahweh worship he originally
had a wife/consort. Her name was Asherah. We know this from
the archaeological inscriptions found at Kuntillet Ajrud that read
"Yahweh of Samaria and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Teman
and his Asherah."

They sure left that part out of the Bible!

Conclusion: There's two Yahwehs and a goddess.
Might wanna update your prayers accordingly.

View attachment 88743
View attachment 88744

Source:
Archaeology and Fertility Cult in the Ancient Mediterranean: Papers ... - Google Books

By the way, I could have saved a lot of time and just linked this.
Kuntillet Ajrud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tell us what Berakhti etkhem refers to....
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
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#90
I feel like this is a one way street.
Celsus, obviously you are not of the christian faith, so what are you? Atheist? Agnostic? Buddhist? etc.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,865
1,567
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#91
The Gobekli Tepe site fascinates me. I want to know all about it and how it factors into ancient history. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. :)
me also I have been researching it for a while now my niece studied archaeology at U.Oklahoma(primarily mound builders in the u.s. is what she worked with) so as these things about Gobekli tepe came to light it caught my eye because of things me and her had discussed in the past.

In the post where I gave the link's I misspelled "Laban as Labon" but who i was speaking of was Laban (Bible) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia he was the son of Bethuel,son of Nahor(Abraham's brother),son of Terah as you can see in the chart. Terah,(Abrahams father) was of Nahor the son of Serug Nahor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (so there are 2 Nahors,one the son of Serug,the other the son of Terah) then Reu,the son of Peleg,,ect. all the way back to Arpachshad Arpachshad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ,,,the son of Seth son of Noah (I skipped from Peleg to Seth you probably know them)

Golbekle Tepe is about 350 miles from Ararat where the arc settled,following the names of the towns spoken of in the bible established by the children in Seth's blood line down to Abraham " Haran" is where Laban was from (genesis 27;43),the same city(or one beside it) is where Abraham sent his servant to find a wife for Issac (genesis 24;10),in Genesis 24;4-7 he tells his servant to go to "my country and my Kindred",,where he goes to is Nahor/Haran where Terah died and laban is now dwelling. NAHOR - JewishEncyclopedia.com or "Haran,city of Nahor in Mesopotamia" the neighboring cities of Urfa/Ur of the Chaldees and also Golbekle Tepe also you will find interesting "Nevali Cori" also in the same area Nevalı Çori - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and The Mystery of Nevali Cori. - YouTube in the photographs(notice the pillars are also "a man's hands wrapped around the side of the stone and a belt type Shaw,sash" the same as they found at Gobekli tepe),,search for more photo's of this also.

I do not reason through the dating process with agreement as to the date of 11-12,000 years ago,why is because biblical history does not cover this many years of history. I notice that in archeology,anthropology,ect. scientist tend to try to begin with cave men/the hunter gathers and then reason the idea that they began at some point farming,temple building,and city building(which makes some sense). They look at things like the type of tools(spearheads,arrowheads,scrapers ect.) discovery of the wheel ect. to help them make their decisions on these matters(makes some sense again).,,but

If the world began(Adam/stone age man) and they then began to learn to make the different tools,wheel,boats ect. and then there was a "great flood",,as we know there was then as soon as they got off the ark then they were "again in the stone age",so it makes more sense to me that they would find two sets of the same events and it would be easy to assume they were only one event when in fact there were two. so at Golbekle Tepe if this is after the flood,mankind again would be in the process of re-learning and so they also would be using primitive tools/weapons ect.

I see several errors in the way golbekle Tepe is being viewed one is that it is assumed that at some point it was abandoned and covered with sand. In the many photos of Gobekle Tepe many of the stone pillars are being secured with blocking to keep them from falling over. Also in the photos there are many of the walls that had fallen down and the pillars that had broken and are laying on the floor beside the other peice of the pillar it broke off of(this could not have happened if it was filled in with dirt,it would have been suspended/supported by the dirt surrounding it). In one photo there is a part of the doorway and it has a carving of a pig up-side-down it is still imbedded in the soil/wall where it fell(in the photo they are still digging it out),so it fell before it was covered with soil. So this shows sighns of a destruction of the existing structure(before it was burried) which is highly probbable List of earthquakes in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that is the area is prone to have very large earthquakes. So it would make sense that the oldest structure was destroyed,filled in,another built,destroyed by another earthquake,again it was filled in,on and on over many years.

If this is so then when the families in the bible dwelt in this area then that whole city was not visable but rather the current structure,and the other was already covered or maybe a poetion had not yet been built. It would not make any sense that the many people mentioned in the scriptures who were from this area did not see these things(which is why it facanates me),that is abraham was 75 when he left Haran,surly he walked by these places(?)
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
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#92
I feel like this is a one way street.
Celsus, obviously you are not of the christian faith, so what are you? Atheist? Agnostic? Buddhist? etc.
that was obvious from his first post, Its just another waste of time "debating" these people. They do not want to learn anything, they just have thier own agenda to bring down God and Christianity and try to cure us of delusion or whatever.
 
Sep 12, 2014
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#94
Most of us that have lived in this world have had experiences happen that could have easily taken us out of this world, but because we still have work to do we were spared!!!!!!!!!! So my question to you is when was GOD revealed to you?

(Example) When I were 14 my brother through a hatchet at me because we were fighting, the hatchet landed in the wall above my head.

(Example) When I was 11 my dad beat me so badly in my mind, that I waited until he went to sit in his favorite place under the tree and I grabbed his gun and snuck up behind him he never knew I was there.

(Example) When I was 16 one of my friends took me with him to another friends home, they begin to indulge in drugs and I asked to allow me to partake, I later found out that they were smoking crack WOW.

Now how about you?????????????
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#95
This is a very interesting thread but I have no time for ignorant academic types who just want to slander the Judeo/Christian faiths.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#96
You have nothing...

It means "I have blessed you.."
Rotflol!

All you are doing is mindlessly regurgitating your googled wiki link.

Tell us about the scholars who disagree with this.....or haven't you yet googled it...?
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#97
Anyone wanna actually deal with the scholarly evidence?
evidence is interpreted by worldview, and when your worldview is, I hate God, so anyone claims to know god, you will actively seek evidence, and interpret evidence in a way to disprove God. Even to the point where you seem to choose what "scholarly" is to your own self, not even going to treat the bible that way. A man convinced of his will is of the same opinion still. No matter what anyone says to you, you will come to the same conclusion - despite truth.

Unless fear of the Lord is in your heart, then maybe by His grace Wisdom might start to happen

that is what has happened to most people in here...
 
May 15, 2013
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#98
"By the 14th century BC, before the cult of Yahweh had reached Israel, groups of Edomite and Midianities worshipped Yahweh as their god."
Shasu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The absence of references to a Syrian or Palestinian cult of Yahweh outside Israel suggests that the god does not belong to the traditional circle of West Semitic deities. The origins of his veneration must be sought elsewhere. A number of texts suggest that Yahweh was worshipped in southern Edom and Midian before his cult spread to Palestine. There are two Egyptian texts that mention Yahweh. In these texts from the 14th and 13th centuries BCE, Yahweh is neither connected with the Israelites, nor is his cult located in Palestine." Pg. 911 DDD
Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible DDD - Google Books
God is an unseen Spirit, and if anyone that has the spirit of God in them, has seen Him. A person only can perceive Him from within, but not by the usage of their eyes.

Matthew 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
 
C

Celsus

Guest
#99
Re: You have nothing...

Rotflol!

All you are doing is mindlessly regurgitating your googled wiki link.

Tell us about the scholars who disagree with this.....or haven't you yet googled it...?
Here's an interesting tidbit. Some scholars believe the "asherah" was a cultic object
while others have reason to conclude that the inscription refers to the goddess.

Either way....

cultic object - "Thou shalt not make any graven image" - Exodus 20:4-6

goddess - "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - Exodus 20:3

Plus all these "monotheistic" verses that were written later:
What Does the Bible Say About Monotheism?

So Bowman, how does it feel to believe in a form of evolved polytheism?
It's really no different than Greek mythology. At least the Greeks had
better stories. Rotftol!!!
 
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C

Celsus

Guest
evidence is interpreted by worldview, and when your worldview is, I hate God,
Well, if you'd take an honest look at the evidence one might be inclined to ask
"which God?"

By the way, how can you hate something that you don't believe in? That doesn't
make any sense.