Repentance includes repenting of a sin one may be involved in such as adultery, thievery etc. One cannot continue in those sins and be saved, 1 Jn 3:9 but must repent and quit doing that unrighteousness and start doing God's righteousness. Rom 10:3 there is a difference in one doing his own righteousness and doing God's righteousness.
Conditional Salvation
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Repentance includes repenting of a sin one may be involved in such as adultery, thievery etc. One cannot continue in those sins and be saved, 1 Jn 3:9 but must repent and quit doing that unrighteousness and start doing God's righteousness. Rom 10:3 there is a difference in one doing his own righteousness and doing God's righteousness.
Jn 10:27, verse 27 goes with verse 28. Verse 27 says "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me"
Verse 27 tells me who God holds in His hand and why He will not allow them to be snatched away.
The "who" God holds in His hand are Christ's sheep. Jesus qualified "MY sheep" as those that have a continuous, sustained hearing and following.
The "why" God will not allow them to be snatched from His had is those sheep are faithful inthier hearing and following and God is faithful to them by not allowing them b=to be snatched away. Yet if one quits hearing and following becoming unfaithful then he removes himself from God's hand. Nowhere did God promise salvation unconditionally to those that become unfaithful to Him.
Two sides to salvation:
1) mans' faithfulness to God
2) God's faithfulness to man
Verse 27 shows man's faithfulness to God and verse 28 in turn shows God faithfulness to man. One cannot pull v28 out of context and then add eternal security to the verse claiming eternal security is the reason God will not allow those sheep to be snatched away. Eternal security is not even in the passage.
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Jn 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: ..."
Jesus is talking about a Christian, the one that is "IN ME" and goes on to say how that Christian "IN ME" can be taken away. No salvation outside of Christ for those taken away from IN Christ. If one were never really saved then he was never "IN ME". The logical implication is one must first be IN Christ to be taken away FROM Christ....you cannot be taken away from what you never in.
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1 Jn 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Both verbs "walk" and "cleanseth" are Greek present tense denoting an ongoing, sustained action. So as long as the Christian continues to walk in the light then Christ's blood continues to cleanse way ALL sins and it is that continued cleansing way of all sin that keeps the Christian spotless and blameless.
Christ did NOT die on the cross saving ALL individuals UNconditonally. Christ's death will not save you as an individual UNcondtionally. Jesus Himself said the majority of men will enter through the broad, wide gate to destruction. Therefore Christ's death saves men conditionally, Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that CONDITIONALLY obey Him.
Thank you for your participation.
Strong's - The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances.
So the cleansing away of all sins may or may not occur depending upon "if" you continue to walk in the light. It's your choice to continue to walk in the light or not. "IF" you choose to quit walking in the light then ALL your sins are no longer cleansed away and you become with spot and blame> lost.
Strong's - The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances.
So the cleansing away of all sins may or may not occur depending upon "if" you continue to walk in the light. It's your choice to continue to walk in the light or not. "IF" you choose to quit walking in the light then ALL your sins are no longer cleansed away and you become with spot and blame> lost.
Once again, when Jesus spoke these words, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified (John 7:38,39) had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13). So IN ME is part of the metaphor of the vine, IN THE VINE not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established. It's interesting how you use a dispensational approach in your efforts to explain away the thief on the cross being saved through faith apart from water baptism, yet you ignore this critical truth above.
So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, (like Judas) and the vital which bears fruit - like the remaining 11 disciples). Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them.
If Jesus had wanted to teach that there were true and false believers associated with Him, and if He wanted to use the analogy of a vine and branches, then the only way He could refer to people who do not have genuine life in themselves would be to speak of branches that bear no fruit (somewhat after the analogy of the seeds that fell on rocky ground and had "no root" in themselves" and produce no fruit Mark 4:17). Here in John 15 these branches that do not bear fruit, though they are in some way connected to Jesus and give an outward appearance of being connected to the vine, nonetheless give indication of their true state by the fact they bear no fruit. This is similarly indicated by the fact that the person "does not abide" in Christ (John 15:6) and is cast off as a branch and withers. If we try to press the analogy any further, by saying, for example, that all branches on a vine really are alive or they would not be there in the first place, then we are simply trying to press the imagery beyond what it is able to teach--and in that case there would be nothing in the analogy that could represent false believers in any case. The point of the imagery is simply that those who bear fruit thereby give evidence that they are abiding in Christ; those who do not, are not abiding in Him.
So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, (like Judas) and the vital which bears fruit - like the remaining 11 disciples). Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them.
If Jesus had wanted to teach that there were true and false believers associated with Him, and if He wanted to use the analogy of a vine and branches, then the only way He could refer to people who do not have genuine life in themselves would be to speak of branches that bear no fruit (somewhat after the analogy of the seeds that fell on rocky ground and had "no root" in themselves" and produce no fruit Mark 4:17). Here in John 15 these branches that do not bear fruit, though they are in some way connected to Jesus and give an outward appearance of being connected to the vine, nonetheless give indication of their true state by the fact they bear no fruit. This is similarly indicated by the fact that the person "does not abide" in Christ (John 15:6) and is cast off as a branch and withers. If we try to press the analogy any further, by saying, for example, that all branches on a vine really are alive or they would not be there in the first place, then we are simply trying to press the imagery beyond what it is able to teach--and in that case there would be nothing in the analogy that could represent false believers in any case. The point of the imagery is simply that those who bear fruit thereby give evidence that they are abiding in Christ; those who do not, are not abiding in Him.
Where did John say that some Christians continue to walk in the light and some don't? You need to read verses 6 and 7 together. 1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of lost unbelievers. Walking in the light is descriptive of saved believers. Only saved believers are in the light. Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. 2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? Lost unbelievers walk in darkness, not in the light. Genuine saved believers walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.
Read closely. If we say that we have fellowship with him and yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. Walking in darkness and not practicing the truth is not descriptive of those who are born of God.
1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
1 John 2:9 - The one who says he is in the light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. Believers are not in darkness, but are in the light as I showed you in Acts 26:18; 2 Corinthians 6:14.
1 John 2:11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
Read closely. If we say that we have fellowship with him and yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. Walking in darkness and not practicing the truth is not descriptive of those who are born of God.
1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
1 John 2:9 - The one who says he is in the light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. Believers are not in darkness, but are in the light as I showed you in Acts 26:18; 2 Corinthians 6:14.
1 John 2:11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
what you are saying is Jesus is teaching two different gospels one before the cross and one after the cross.... IN THE VINE not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established........ utter rubbish whatever drugs you are on please stop using....are the words Jesus taught before he died any different to those being taught by his disciples after his resurrection?
another perfect example of misunderstanding...John is speaking to the church...he is not calling anyone saved believer or lost unbeliever...he is teaching us how we should live and what is expected of us...in the epistle the writer is including himself...so is he describing himself as walking in darkness and lying? No he is saying you can be in the church and be living a lie....but he shows us how to live the truth...
You are assuming that the latter end has to do with salvation.
The verse has to do with someone who was bound by the devil and got freed. Then they again were entangled in the same sin, and because the evil spirit came back with seven other spirits, that later end of that man's condition, was worse than what he had the first time. For example, if a person were just depressed because of sin in their life, then got delivered by the word of God, then because of the sin that they went back into again, they now want to commit suicide. The latter end is worse than the first.
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
The verse has to do with someone who was bound by the devil and got freed. Then they again were entangled in the same sin, and because the evil spirit came back with seven other spirits, that later end of that man's condition, was worse than what he had the first time. For example, if a person were just depressed because of sin in their life, then got delivered by the word of God, then because of the sin that they went back into again, they now want to commit suicide. The latter end is worse than the first.
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
I make no such assumptions.
Deliverance can be from sin and not unto death. Not all sin leads to a loss of salvation.
Can the latter end of someone already going to hell be any worse than the beginning? Read it and put the thing in context.
Maybe the verse above it would help you to do so.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption:
for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
You can have a person that is unable to stop a habbitual sin, like smoking or cursing, hating themselves for it and repenting often, like the publican who went home justified, and still go to heaven. It is a matter and condition of the heart, not the sin itself.
Deliverance can be from sin and not unto death. Not all sin leads to a loss of salvation.
Can the latter end of someone already going to hell be any worse than the beginning? Read it and put the thing in context.
Maybe the verse above it would help you to do so.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption:
for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
You can have a person that is unable to stop a habbitual sin, like smoking or cursing, hating themselves for it and repenting often, like the publican who went home justified, and still go to heaven. It is a matter and condition of the heart, not the sin itself.
I never said that Jesus was teaching two different gospels one before the cross and one after the cross. My post had nothing to do with that. Question: When Jesus spoke these words, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified (John 7:38,39) had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13). You need to rightly divide the word of truth. Rubbish? On drugs? You just DON'T GET IT.
You are about as deep as a puddle. That's all you came away with from post #372?
Yes, ON YOUR PART.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth is descriptive of a saved believer? Not according to 1 John 3:10; 2:9,11. Is that hard for you to figure out?
If you attend church but are living a lie, then what does that say about your condition? Say we have fellowship..walks in darkness..lies..does not practice the truth = lost. IN CONTRAST TO walks in the light = saved. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other. What did John say in 1 John 2:19? - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. Not everyone who is in church among genuine Christians is a Christian, as John clearly points out.
You are about as deep as a puddle. That's all you came away with from post #372?
Yes, ON YOUR PART.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth is descriptive of a saved believer? Not according to 1 John 3:10; 2:9,11. Is that hard for you to figure out?
If you attend church but are living a lie, then what does that say about your condition? Say we have fellowship..walks in darkness..lies..does not practice the truth = lost. IN CONTRAST TO walks in the light = saved. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other. What did John say in 1 John 2:19? - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. Not everyone who is in church among genuine Christians is a Christian, as John clearly points out.
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES.. I preach THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST. You preach salvation by water and works and completely abstaining from sin. You preach a DIFFERENT GOSPEL. Being self-attached to the vine and bearing no fruit and not abiding is not being in the body of Christ.
When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? "the body of Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:13). John 7:38-39 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. The phrase "in me" (in the vine) does not mean the same thing as Paul’s words ..baptized by ONE SPIRIT into ONE BODY.. (1 Corinthians 12:13). So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established. So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, (like Judas Iscariot) and the vital which bears fruit - like the remaining 11 disciples). Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity.
Yes he is. Self attached branches that bear no fruit and do not abide are not believers. You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, but first you need to repent and believe the gospel. Posts #353 and #370 went right over your head.
When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? "the body of Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:13). John 7:38-39 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. The phrase "in me" (in the vine) does not mean the same thing as Paul’s words ..baptized by ONE SPIRIT into ONE BODY.. (1 Corinthians 12:13). So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established. So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, (like Judas Iscariot) and the vital which bears fruit - like the remaining 11 disciples). Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no life and no productivity.
Yes he is. Self attached branches that bear no fruit and do not abide are not believers. You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, but first you need to repent and believe the gospel. Posts #353 and #370 went right over your head.