The MOST CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT MADE
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No, I keep referring to Mark 16:16 :
Mark 16:16 (NKJV) He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
How about you take a look at all those verses you posted, they are all addressed to "saints", they are already Christians, they already obeyed Mark 16:16.
Mark 16:16 (NKJV) He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
How about you take a look at all those verses you posted, they are all addressed to "saints", they are already Christians, they already obeyed Mark 16:16.
E
How about you look and see they are all justified by faith.
So by your reasoning "new Christians" are justified by faith and baptism but "old Christians" (saints) are justified by faith according to all of the Scripture i quoted (and thats not all)? OK you make no sense at all. Complete total nonsense.
So by your reasoning "new Christians" are justified by faith and baptism but "old Christians" (saints) are justified by faith according to all of the Scripture i quoted (and thats not all)? OK you make no sense at all. Complete total nonsense.
Actually it is you who reads Romans 4:2-3 in the wrong context, what law was Abram justified in? if it were the Mosaic Law (Paul was dealing with those who would not let go of the Mosaic Law) if it were the Mosaic Law he would have something to boast about because he would not need Jesus....
By faith Abraham was Justified not by Law but Obedience, just like those today that by faith are justified not by the Law (of Moses) but obedience to Christ :
Matthew 28:19-20 (NKJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP] Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
By faith Abraham was Justified not by Law but Obedience, just like those today that by faith are justified not by the Law (of Moses) but obedience to Christ :
Matthew 28:19-20 (NKJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP] Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
what makes no sense to you is everyone needed in the days of Abraham (Patriarchal Dispensation) to by "faith" be obedient to God, and now by "faith" everyone needs to be obedient to Christ (as all authority is given to Him)
Matthew 28:18 (NKJV) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
You like the Jews Paul continually had to deal with keep reverting back to the law of Moses (when it is convenient).
Matthew 28:18 (NKJV) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
You like the Jews Paul continually had to deal with keep reverting back to the law of Moses (when it is convenient).
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Since when did I revert back to the law? I only quoted Scripture and besides Abraham was deemed righteous before he was circumcised. We are justified now the exact same way as in the OT...by faith. Nothing has changed in terms of justification. I NEVER once said we had to follow mosaic law to be justified. Justified by faith. Show me one passage where "justified or justification" are in the same sentence as "baptism".
E
Did you happen to read my post here? Hmm I bet not. What do I say about being under control? Oh yeah "not under the control of sin". But yep still sinners.
Can you not answer the questiin? Are you now sinless because you claim Christ as your Lord? Answer carefully because if you say you are sinless you are one of the biggest hypocrites I ever talked too.
Can you not answer the questiin? Are you now sinless because you claim Christ as your Lord? Answer carefully because if you say you are sinless you are one of the biggest hypocrites I ever talked too.
I don't know where you are walking...but I am walking in the light.....
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Did I say you do no good works..?? you say I am reading James in the wrong context....James says faith without works is dead...is James writing out of context? you want to be saved by faith only (without works} then say you do works...James ask you ...can faith save ? ...what say you???
James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (he is talking save here)
James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (he is talking save here)
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Funny because you keep bringing it up as if I said that.
We are justified by faith only. Not by baptism not by good works. How about you read the passages I posted instead of keep saying we are justified by works or baptism. Only through the blood of Christ are we justified, redeemed or reconciled to God. James is only talking about our faith being shown by our works not justified before God.
And if you elude to me saying otherwise you are only showing your own ignorance to what others say. And yes you sure have eluded to me, Dcon and others saying that.
We are justified by faith only. Not by baptism not by good works. How about you read the passages I posted instead of keep saying we are justified by works or baptism. Only through the blood of Christ are we justified, redeemed or reconciled to God. James is only talking about our faith being shown by our works not justified before God.
And if you elude to me saying otherwise you are only showing your own ignorance to what others say. And yes you sure have eluded to me, Dcon and others saying that.
It is confusing brother,
Not by law but by obedience. Is that obedience not include in the law?
I believe Abraham follow or obedience the very foundation of the law/rule. Have the will to have faith/entrust himself to the Lord.
Is that mean he always perfectly entrust himself to the Lord? He have the will but some time fall. For example the Lord said not to lie, but When he think he is in danger when the powerful king love his pretty wife, instead of trust to His protection, he make his own calculation and lie.
Not perfect and fall, but have the will to entrust to the Lord. That consider save.
Not by law but by obedience. Is that obedience not include in the law?
I believe Abraham follow or obedience the very foundation of the law/rule. Have the will to have faith/entrust himself to the Lord.
Is that mean he always perfectly entrust himself to the Lord? He have the will but some time fall. For example the Lord said not to lie, but When he think he is in danger when the powerful king love his pretty wife, instead of trust to His protection, he make his own calculation and lie.
Not perfect and fall, but have the will to entrust to the Lord. That consider save.
Every time one of you use this scripture to say baptism (or any other command) is not necessary that "faith only" is all that is needed :
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
you lift this text out of context to try and say baptism is not required, the works in this text is the "Mosaic Law"
With the scripture you used for justification of Abram :
(Rom 4:2 [NKJV])
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has [something] to boast about, but not before God.
the works here is the "Mosaic Law", if (like the Jews Paul was dealing with) if Abraham could be justified by the "Mosaic Law" (works) then he would have something to boast about, he would not need Christ, he would live "perfect" like our Lord, that WOULD be something to boast about, but Abraham or you or me or anyone else could not keep the Law.
You lift scripture out of context at any cost to try and make other scripture void (like Mark 16:16).
You said we are justified the same way Abraham was, that is not entirely correct, Abraham was justified by "faith" through "obedience" to "God", TODAY we are justified by "faith" through "obedience" to "Christ" (and Christ said "be baptized" he commanded it) and ALL AUTHORITY EVEN GODS IS GIVEN TO THE SON IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH.
This means baptism is a command, repentance is a command, confession before men is a command, none of which have any use without belief (another command).
ALL His commands must be done, we are told baptism is for remittance of sin, yet you still imply it is not required yet no other way is sin remitted, baptism is a representation of our Lords death, burial and resurrection, when we are baptized we come up out of the watery grave sinless by spiritual contact and washing of the blood.
There is one baptism Eph 4:5, the commission commanded by our Lord was given to the disciples, John the baptizer tells us the disciples (including himself) could ONLY baptize by water.
Jesus did not tell the disciples "Go throughout the world and I will make disciples by baptizing them" indicating HS baptism, NO, he SAID, "Go throughout the whole world making disciples" (note he told disciples to make disciples) "teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you" :
Matthew 28:19-20 (NKJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP] Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
you lift this text out of context to try and say baptism is not required, the works in this text is the "Mosaic Law"
With the scripture you used for justification of Abram :
(Rom 4:2 [NKJV])
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has [something] to boast about, but not before God.
the works here is the "Mosaic Law", if (like the Jews Paul was dealing with) if Abraham could be justified by the "Mosaic Law" (works) then he would have something to boast about, he would not need Christ, he would live "perfect" like our Lord, that WOULD be something to boast about, but Abraham or you or me or anyone else could not keep the Law.
You lift scripture out of context at any cost to try and make other scripture void (like Mark 16:16).
You said we are justified the same way Abraham was, that is not entirely correct, Abraham was justified by "faith" through "obedience" to "God", TODAY we are justified by "faith" through "obedience" to "Christ" (and Christ said "be baptized" he commanded it) and ALL AUTHORITY EVEN GODS IS GIVEN TO THE SON IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH.
This means baptism is a command, repentance is a command, confession before men is a command, none of which have any use without belief (another command).
ALL His commands must be done, we are told baptism is for remittance of sin, yet you still imply it is not required yet no other way is sin remitted, baptism is a representation of our Lords death, burial and resurrection, when we are baptized we come up out of the watery grave sinless by spiritual contact and washing of the blood.
There is one baptism Eph 4:5, the commission commanded by our Lord was given to the disciples, John the baptizer tells us the disciples (including himself) could ONLY baptize by water.
Jesus did not tell the disciples "Go throughout the world and I will make disciples by baptizing them" indicating HS baptism, NO, he SAID, "Go throughout the whole world making disciples" (note he told disciples to make disciples) "teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you" :
Matthew 28:19-20 (NKJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP] Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
God will know if I sin or not...and he is faithful to cleanse me...
are you saying ...our sins were never remitted... ? are you saying if we walk in the light the blood of Jesus does not cleanse us from all sins,,? are you saying if we confess our sins God is not faithful to forgive us? if believing the word of God makes me a hypocrite then so be it...
are you saying ...our sins were never remitted... ? are you saying if we walk in the light the blood of Jesus does not cleanse us from all sins,,? are you saying if we confess our sins God is not faithful to forgive us? if believing the word of God makes me a hypocrite then so be it...