It's the blood of the Lamb

[BradC]

Let me ask a pointed question.

Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them?

The only reason that God is able to forgive and cleanse a person from any form of perversion, lust or inordinate affection is because their very sin nature and every personal sin committed, was judged through death and paid for by the blood of the Lamb. These individuals, which some of us were but are now washed by that blood (read 1 Cor 6:9-11 & Rev 1:5), need to come to the Lamb, JUST AS THEY ARE AS SINNERS, to receive mercy and be washed and cleansed from their sin that Christ has already been crucified for. If they fail or sin after being washed they have an advocate who represents them to the Father and reminds the Father that they can not be judged for their sin, because they have been justified by faith through Christ who was judged already for their sin. They have the Spirit within who will bring them under conviction to turn them from that sin and not justify it, but to confess it to God and be cleansed from the unrighteousness of that act of sin so that they can walk and live in the Spirit and not the flesh.

Now I am going to answer your question directly. The molester can not turn from his sin without the power of God's conviction in his heart that comes by the Holy Spirit. Guilt will not turn the molester, condemnation will not turn the molester, the law will not turn him, ridicule will not turn the molester, but it will take the goodness of God to bring that molester in his heart to a place of humility and repentance, where he can respond by faith and ask God for mercy as a sinner. And when that happens, God does not only forgive and cleanse, but justifies them instantly with no reservation or probation and declares that individual to be righteous and in right standing with Him reconciled. Their sin has been taken away and buried and they are a new creature in Christ, every old thing is passed away and all things are becoming new.

The problem that some have is that they do not understand positional truth and all the things that God does the moment we believe. These things are all positional and can not be revoked. What we see, if we walk by sight and not by faith, are individuals having problems with sin in their experience. They have conviction and their spirit is willing but the flesh is weak and some fall back into temptation. They need an abundance of grace. However, God does not forsake or leave them because of the great work of redemption he began in them when they were born of the Spirit and the incorruptible seed of the word. They are God's purchased possession and his responsibility to turn them and bring them back from their backslidings. God has done that for all of us and for some of us even more, but he is faithful and will never, no never, no never leave us or forsake us and that is a promise from God, who can not lie (Heb 13:5).

 

[Skinski7]

the other day I agreed with you. now I disagree. God cleans us after we come to him, not what you just said. behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. the father said get a robe and sandals for the prodigal son when he returned. I could go on. get clean then come to God dead wrong. stopping sin and rebellion you are correct. AFTER we get saved, not TO get saved. wrong on this big time.

Past sins are cleansed AFTER we come to God, not present iniquity.

Present iniquity is purged through repentance. Here is proof...

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

The word "clear" in verse 11 means pure. Godly sorrow working repentance destroys the rebellion in the heart whereby we can then approach God with a true heart as walk in the light.

We don't approach God in the very act of wickedness and then get cleaned up some time later. That is error.

James wrote...

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

We have to cleanse our hands and purify our hearts through repentance and faith. It is faith that purifies the heart (Act 15:9) because it involves the working dynamic of forsaking rebellion and yielding ourselves to God. Abraham's faith had him WALKING IN THE STEPS of faith (Rom 4:12). There are many verses that speak of the rebellion ceasing BEFORE forgiveness is granted, not afterwards.

The cleansing by God is of our PAST sin and that cleansing is conditional on us walking in the light. One cannot walk in the light while they still continue to engage in wickedness.

 

[Powemm]

I wonder how pleasing it is to god when we pervert righteousness... I cant imagine him liking the brutality of it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wonder how pleasing it is to god when we pervert righteousness... I cant imagine him liking the brutality of it

no more pleased than perverting grace and forgiveness.

in fact, I would say he hates that more, he loved us when we were at our worse, his enemy.

how much more will he love us when we are his children.

 

[Powemm]

God says "vengeance is mine" yet we continue to try to play with it... why is that? I know for myself its because I forget ... how quick he is to remind me when I do..

 

[Powemm]

Isaiah 61......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God says "vengeance is mine" yet we continue to try to play with it... why is that? I know for myself its because I forget ... how quick he is to remind me when I do..

Mind if I ask what you think we are doing to play with it? Just curious

 

[Powemm]

Hi eternal.... the later part of my statement pointed to myself.. myself being partnof a larger group... "we"

 

[psalm6819]

Brethern, We need to pray for ppl who think they must do more than trust in the blood of Jesus. Imagine the load of condemnation they carry, imagine what it must feel like to everyday think that you have disappointed the precious Savior, instead of trusting in HIS finished work. We need to pray that the Holy Spirit will help them understand, the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing dividing the soul and spirit, of the joints and marrow and is a discerner of thoughts and the intents of the heart. God sees the heart and wants us to pray for others not condemn.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi eternal.... the later part of my statement pointed to myself.. myself being partnof a larger group... "we"

I just meant how you think "we" try to play with it, not sure what you mean.

 

[gb9]

Past sins are cleansed AFTER we come to God, not present iniquity.

Present iniquity is purged through repentance. Here is proof...

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

The word "clear" in verse 11 means pure. Godly sorrow working repentance destroys the rebellion in the heart whereby we can then approach God with a true heart as walk in the light.

We don't approach God in the very act of wickedness and then get cleaned up some time later. That is error.

James wrote...

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

We have to cleanse our hands and purify our hearts through repentance and faith. It is faith that purifies the heart (Act 15:9) because it involves the working dynamic of forsaking rebellion and yielding ourselves to God. Abraham's faith had him WALKING IN THE STEPS of faith (Rom 4:12). There are many verses that speak of the rebellion ceasing BEFORE forgiveness is granted, not afterwards.

The cleansing by God is of our PAST sin and that cleansing is conditional on us walking in the light. One cannot walk in the light while they still continue to engage in wickedness.

we don't approach God in the act of wickedness and get cleaned up later. that is what you said. How about Paul?? what was he doing when Christ confronted him? that blows you " theory" out of the water. dude, you are right about some of the things you say. I think you truly have a heart for God. just get rid of the garbage like you just said, you'll be fine.

 

[BradC]

I wonder how pleasing it is to god when we pervert righteousness... I cant imagine him liking the brutality of it

You are right and this is why we have been given the Holy Spirit, to convict our hearts of those things that we might be made the righteousness of God in Christ (2 Cor 5:21). Tell me what you think of this passage as it relates to God's perspective, understanding and practice...

Hab 1:12,13

12 Art thou not from everlasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O Lord, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.
13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

 

[VioletReigns]

Past sins are cleansed AFTER we come to God, not present iniquity.

Present iniquity is purged through repentance. Here is proof...

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

The word "clear" in verse 11 means pure. Godly sorrow working repentance destroys the rebellion in the heart whereby we can then approach God with a true heart as walk in the light.

We don't approach God in the very act of wickedness and then get cleaned up some time later. That is error.

James wrote...

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

We have to cleanse our hands and purify our hearts through repentance and faith. It is faith that purifies the heart (Act 15:9) because it involves the working dynamic of forsaking rebellion and yielding ourselves to God. Abraham's faith had him WALKING IN THE STEPS of faith (Rom 4:12). There are many verses that speak of the rebellion ceasing BEFORE forgiveness is granted, not afterwards.

The cleansing by God is of our PAST sin and that cleansing is conditional on us walking in the light. One cannot walk in the light while they still continue to engage in wickedness.

Brother Skinski, We CAN approach God just as we are, BOLDLY to His Throne of Grace because of Jesus Christ's Blood Atonement. We are perfect in the Father's sight because Jesus made us one with Him. That is THE ATONEMENT!

Jesus said, “IT IS FINISHED.” Brother Skinski, It IS finished. The battle is over. Jesus’ Blood Atonement covers us from ALL sin. Our job is working it out in BELIEF. “Only believe.” That is the only thing God requires of us. Belief. For if we DO believe, we will be walking in the holiness of Jesus Christ.

Grace to sin? God forbid! But if we do sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ who reminds us, "YOUR SINS ARE ALREADY FORGIVEN." If we BELIEVED HIM, we would GO AND SIN NO MORE. ThE battle is spiritual now. It not against flesh and blood, but against lying, dark spirits that say we are still sold under sin. BUT WE ARE NOT, BECAUSE OF THE BLOOD ATONEMENT!

How do we work out belief? Day by day, from glory to glory, renewing our mind in Jesus Christ, step by step. There is NOTHING you can do to cleanse yourself. ONLY BELIEVE JESUS' BLOOD ATONEMENT ALREADY CLEANSED YOU.

Cleansing your hands [James 4] is the same as Romans 13:14 – Clothe yourself in the Lord Jesus Christ and make no more provision (preparations) for your flesh to indulge in sin. In other words, SHOW YOURSELF (prove it, convince yourself until you believe) YOU ARE APPROVED UNTO GOD BECAUSE OF THE ATONEMENT OF CHRIST!

Jesus said in Matthew 5:30 – “If your prominent hand offend you, cut it off and throw it away from you; for it is better for you that you lose one part of your body and not that your whole body be thrown into hell.”

Did Jesus want us to literally cut off our hands? He was emphasizing the importance of making it as difficult as possible to go back to our sinful habits. In this way, you are making it easier on yourself to remember YOU ARE SET FREE IN CHRIST.

Addicted to internet porn? Throw the computer out. Hung up on phone sexting? Get rid of your phone. Addicted to alcohol? Confess it to the bartender or the liquor store clerk. Tell them they he shouldn’t sell you alcohol because it may get them into legal trouble if you drink and drive. Cheating on your spouse? Confess it to them. Can’t stop stealing? Report yourself to the one you’re stealing from. Whatever it takes to make it next to impossible for you for you to continue believing the lie that you are sold to sin.

That is what James 4 and Romans 13 is instructing. The sin was already forgiven at the Cross. Our job now is working it out in our minds, believing unto salvation THE ATONEMENT. And we will see the fruit of that faith. For when we finally BELIEVE Jesus, we will NOT COMMIT THE SIN. We will be as surprised as anything to see that the miracle of THE ATONEMENT has literally set us free to walk in purity. That our minds and hearts HAVE LITERALLY BEEN CLEANSED BY THE ATONEMENT BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST.

We are under a death sentence in the flesh. We are crucified with Christ, and it’s no longer our carnal man who lives, but Christ living in us. If we don’t understand that and BELIEVE that, we will go back and forth from the spirit to the flesh in our thoughts. Like a wave tossed to and fro.

Romans 6:14 - For SIN WILL NOT HAVE DOMINSION (CONTROL) OVER YOU: for you are NOT UNDER THE LAW, but UNDER GRACE.

If sin doesn’t have control over us, but we are still committing sin, isn’t that contradictory? Yes it is. Because when we fall presently, the penalty is already paid for by Jesus’ Blood Atonement. And we have to work that Truth out in BELIEF by getting rid of things that would tempt us to THINK we are still sold to sin. We have to believe Christ by obedience. Obedience proves to ourselves we are set free in Christ.

Romans 7:25 - I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then WITH THE MIND I myself SERVE THE LAW OF GOD but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:10 - And if Christ be in you, the BODY IS DEAD because of sin; but the SPIRIT IS LIFE because of righteousness (made right by Jesus’ Blood Atonement).

When we finally come to the knowledge and understanding of the perfect work of Jesus Christ in His paying the penalty of our every sin, when we finally BELIEVE HIM, we will be able to resist temptation more easily and more easily till it is no longer a thought.

Romans 6:12 - Do not let sin reign in your mortal bodies to obey that you should be controlled by the lusts of the flesh.
How do you stop sin from reigning if Jesus already put a stop to it? BY BELIEVING HIM and stop believing the flesh and its desires.

Remember the ABC’s of the Plan of Salvation?

1. Admit your flesh is sinful and against Holy God
2. Believe that the Blood of Jesus Christ washed away your sin.
3. Commit to following Jesus Christ and obeying His Word.

We must do that every day. Admit to ourselves that our fleshly desires are unholy, that Jesus died and paid for those sins, and that we can now follow Him because of what He has done. I'm not saying we have to get saved over and over. I'm saying we have to remind ourselves over & over that WE ARE SAVED.

Jesus compares it to a woman in the birthing process.
Paul compares it to a boxer in training.
It is work and we are rewarded for it every time we BELIEVE JESUS IS THE ATONEMENT FOR OUR SIN. And our reward is that we will be able to obey just as Jesus obeyed. We will be set free to live.

Please read Romans 7:18-25 and pray the Holy Spirit give you understanding.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Brother Skinski, We CAN approach God just as we are, BOLDLY to His Throne of Grace because of Jesus Christ's Blood Atonement. We are perfect in the Father's sight because Jesus made us one with Him. That is THE ATONEMENT!

Jesus said, “IT IS FINISHED.” Brother Skinski, It IS finished. The battle is over. Jesus’ Blood Atonement covers us from ALL sin. Our job is working it out in BELIEF. “Only believe.” That is the only thing God requires of us. Belief. For if we DO believe, we will be walking in the holiness of Jesus Christ.

Grace to sin? God forbid! But if we do sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ who reminds us, "YOUR SINS ARE ALREADY FORGIVEN." If we BELIEVED HIM, we would GO AND SIN NO MORE. ThE battle is spiritual now. It not against flesh and blood, but against lying, dark spirits that say we are still sold under sin. BUT WE ARE NOT, BECAUSE OF THE BLOOD ATONEMENT!

How do we work out belief? Day by day, from glory to glory, renewing our mind in Jesus Christ, step by step. There is NOTHING you can do to cleanse yourself. ONLY BELIEVE JESUS' BLOOD ATONEMENT ALREADY CLEANSED YOU.

Cleansing your hands [James 4] is the same as Romans 13:14 – Clothe yourself in the Lord Jesus Christ and make no more provision (preparations) for your flesh to indulge in sin. In other words, SHOW YOURSELF (prove it, convince yourself until you believe) YOU ARE APPROVED UNTO GOD BECAUSE OF THE ATONEMENT OF CHRIST!

Jesus said in Matthew 5:30 – “If your prominent hand offend you, cut it off and throw it away from you; for it is better for you that you lose one part of your body and not that your whole body be thrown into hell.”

Did Jesus want us to literally cut off our hands? He was emphasizing the importance of making it as difficult as possible to go back to our sinful habits. In this way, you are making it easier on yourself to remember YOU ARE SET FREE IN CHRIST.

Addicted to internet porn? Throw the computer out. Hung up on phone sexting? Get rid of your phone. Addicted to alcohol? Confess it to the bartender or the liquor store clerk. Tell them they he shouldn’t sell you alcohol because it may get them into legal trouble if you drink and drive. Cheating on your spouse? Confess it to them. Can’t stop stealing? Report yourself to the one you’re stealing from. Whatever it takes to make it next to impossible for you for you to continue believing the lie that you are sold to sin.

That is what James 4 and Romans 13 is instructing. The sin was already forgiven at the Cross. Our job now is working it out in our minds, believing unto salvation THE ATONEMENT. And we will see the fruit of that faith. For when we finally BELIEVE Jesus, we will NOT COMMIT THE SIN. We will be as surprised as anything to see that the miracle of THE ATONEMENT has literally set us free to walk in purity. That our minds and hearts HAVE LITERALLY BEEN CLEANSED BY THE ATONEMENT BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST.

We are under a death sentence in the flesh. We are crucified with Christ, and it’s no longer our carnal man who lives, but Christ living in us. If we don’t understand that and BELIEVE that, we will go back and forth from the spirit to the flesh in our thoughts. Like a wave tossed to and fro.

Romans 6:14 - For SIN WILL NOT HAVE DOMINSION (CONTROL) OVER YOU: for you are NOT UNDER THE LAW, but UNDER GRACE.

If sin doesn’t have control over us, but we are still committing sin, isn’t that contradictory? Yes it is. Because when we fall presently, the penalty is already paid for by Jesus’ Blood Atonement. And we have to work that Truth out in BELIEF by getting rid of things that would tempt us to THINK we are still sold to sin. We have to believe Christ by obedience. Obedience proves to ourselves we are set free in Christ.

Romans 7:25 - I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then WITH THE MIND I myself SERVE THE LAW OF GOD but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:10 - And if Christ be in you, the BODY IS DEAD because of sin; but the SPIRIT IS LIFE because of righteousness (made right by Jesus’ Blood Atonement).

When we finally come to the knowledge and understanding of the perfect work of Jesus Christ in His paying the penalty of our every sin, when we finally BELIEVE HIM, we will be able to resist temptation more easily and more easily till it is no longer a thought.

Romans 6:12 - Do not let sin reign in your mortal bodies to obey that you should be controlled by the lusts of the flesh.
How do you stop sin from reigning if Jesus already put a stop to it? BY BELIEVING HIM and stop believing the flesh and its desires.

Remember the ABC’s of the Plan of Salvation?

1. Admit your flesh is sinful and against Holy God
2. Believe that the Blood of Jesus Christ washed away your sin.
3. Commit to following Jesus Christ and obeying His Word.

We must do that every day. Admit to ourselves that our fleshly desires are unholy, that Jesus died and paid for those sins, and that we can now follow Him because of what He has done. I'm not saying we have to get saved over and over. I'm saying we have to remind ourselves over & over that WE ARE SAVED.

Jesus compares it to a woman in the birthing process.
Paul compares it to a boxer in training.
It is work and we are rewarded for it every time we BELIEVE JESUS IS THE ATONEMENT FOR OUR SIN. And our reward is that we will be able to obey just as Jesus obeyed. We will be set free to live.

Please read Romans 7:18-25 and pray the Holy Spirit give you understanding.

That was really, really good, VioletReigns, which is a two reallies post, we must emphasize. (Okay. So what if "really" isn't a noun? It don't git in mah way!)

 

[notuptome]

Let me ask a pointed question.

Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them?

The pointed answer is no. Only God can love with that kind of love. Of course if you are not saved you cannot possibly understand the mercy and grace that God provides.

Now so you do not go off and act like an idiot, when God saves the child molester the heart is changed and there is no more desire to be a child molester. The new person in Christ knows the depravity of sin and has no desire to sin. Same would go for the adulterer or the liar.

The straw man here is that you chose a very detestable sin to highlight. The fact before God is that all sin is the same. God finds all sin equally revolting and will abide not even the least of sins in His sight.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[VioletReigns]

As a side note: Before y'all start crying your eyes out and tossing your wonderful laptops, Notebooks & iPhones into the trash because of temptation, there IS an alternative. BELIEVE IN THE ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST UNTO SALVATION. And be set free! \/

 

[dcontroversal]

More vacuous rhetoric. You hardly ever use any scripture in your posts but only assert the theology of men. When you do refer to scripture it is generally a single verse which you have twisted out of context.

The reason Jesus died on the cross is that...

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

...and...

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

The death of Christ put into effect the New Covenant which we can be enjoined to God by the blood of Christ. We enter into this covenant by approaching God with a true heart, yielded to Him whereby His laws are written upon our hearts, whereby we are washed clean of our past crimes.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Thus...

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Thus when we read...

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The blood only cleanses IF we WALK in the light. We have to come clean with God in repentance, forsaking our rebellion, yield to God and THEN God cleanses us of all sin. The entire Bible agrees with this.

Wickedness must be laid aside. There is no excuse to keep choosing evil.

This notion of the "completed work of Christ" which is to simply be "trusted in" which somehow cloaks ongoing wickedness is preposterous. No-one who supports such an idea can back this notion up with what the Bible teaches. All people like you do is disregard the plain and simple truth and assert rhetoric. You ignore what is written in Hebrews, you ignore the words of Jesus, you ignore Paul, you ignore Peter, you ignore John.

Not only that but people like you refuse to broach the subject of heart purity in salvation. That subject is simply not touched with a ten foot pole.

The difference between you and I is quite simple.....

1. I do quote and reference scripture quite regularly in context which you in blindness reject, deny and trample under foot by your own ignorance and your own misguided heretical stance while attributing things not said nor implied by those who actually know the truth.....

2. You foolishly believe a man can quit sin by his own power and then do works good enough to be receive by God failing to understand that YOU can do NOTHING that pleases God while being ignorant of a few eternal truths such as...
a. It is Jesus that does the work through a man did the Holy Spirit and the Word of God
b. Anything we do in the flesh is marred by the FLESH as there is NOT A JUST MAN UPON THE EARTH THAT DOES GOOD and SINS NOT.
C. You fail to understand that mixing faith and WORKS to gain or keep SALVATION is a heretical gospel of a different kind, has no power to save and or keep saved and is double cursed to hell....

So....keep twisting scripture out of context, applying books of the bible incorrectly (Hebrews, James, Romans and 1st John) and work your way right into hell dude!

As for me, I will trust the words of God and the fact that the righteousness of God being applied unto the believer dia the perfect faith of Jesus, eternal life based upon the FAITH OF JESUS, eternal redemption based upon the faith of Jesus, eternal justification based upon the faith of JESUS, eternal sanctification based upon the faith of JESUS while knowing full well that I have present sin (1st John 1:8) and like Paul being the number one chief sinner among men.

Good luck with your self righteousness, your own works and the Pharisee attitude that states how righteous you are among men!

 

[SeaBass]

It appears you are ignoring heart purity in the equation. You are presenting the "righteousness of Christ" as some kind of covering which cloaks sin. Putting on Christ is abiding in the Spirit of His life and it is a MANIFEST STATE in the NOW.

The deliverance from the law is in the context of shifting from "outward regulation of conduct governed via the letter of the law" to an "inward regulation of conduct governed via abiding in the Spirit."

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

When Paul writes...

1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

... the context is about his approach to both Jew and Gentile. He would not burden the Gentiles with the rites and rituals of the law yet when with the Jews he would not unburden them in the sense of speak against it. Paul understood that the real issue was the heart.

You responded to my post without actually addressing the issue which I bring up. That issue being that "imputed righteousness of Christ" is a loaded term invented by Calvinists. Even if you don't believe that the obedience of Jesus is credited to your account (maybe you do believe it? I don't know), by using that term you are appealing to the mental picture of the "transfer doctrine" which many people are deceived by.

We are to contend earnestly for the truth from the paradigm which the Bible exists in, not from a paradigm premised in error. I have seen you contend against OSAS many times on this forum from within the framework of error and your threads end up as proof text wars which go nowhere. Paul implored Timothy to avoid "oppositions of knowledge so called" and that means we are to avoid engaging in debate where the limits of the paradigm is error.

The entire OSAS vs nonOSAS is such a false paradigm. If people were to contend for a salvation where we are saved FROM sin instead of a salvation where we are saved IN sin then the entire OSAS issue goes away. If salvation is a present manifest state of abiding in the will of God and walking with a pure heart, to choose evil is clearly to leave that present manifest state. Thus any contention that OSAS is true is easily proved as error. There is no need to play the proof text game which leads nowhere.

I hope you can understand my sentiment.

I say that for that is exactly what Paul is saying when he says "put on Christ":

NIV "for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."
NASB "For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."
HCSB "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ like a garment."

One literally, spiritually puts on Christ. The one who puts on Christ is surrounded by His merits, takes on His identity > He is the Son of God and those in Christ are then identified as sons of God. By being covered by Christ's perfect righteousness then my imperfect righteousness is covered and not seen by God.

You posted "You responded to my post without actually addressing the issue which I bring up. That issue being that "imputed righteousness of Christ" is a loaded term invented by Calvinists."

I do not agree with Calvinism. Christ's righteousness is NOT imputed-transferred to the sinner nor is the sinner's sins imputed-transferred into Christ. When one OBEDIENTLY is baptized into Christ and puts on Christ, then He is in Christ and in His perfect righteousness, in saving grace. But it takes OBEDIENCE to be in Christ and put on Christ. On the other hand, the Calvinist is simply trying to invent a way to get the sinner in Christ and be righteous WITHOUT that sinner having to do ANY OBEDIENT works at a, as being baptized into Christ and put on Christ. In other words, the Calvinists is trying to find a way to get the sinner in Christ and put on Christ by "faith only" that is void of obedient works. Yet doing nothing (faith only) will never get one in Christ.

Again, the sinner, through obedience, is put in CHrist and His righteousness.
It is not the sinner sitting doing nothing/doing unrighteousness and Christ's righteousness is transferred to that sinner.


You post "I have seen you contend against OSAS many times on this forum from within the framework of error and your threads end up as proof text wars which go nowhere. Paul implored Timothy to avoid "oppositions of knowledge so called" and that means we are to avoid engaging in debate where the limits of the paradigm is error."

It's my duty to plant and water and God gives the increase. I really do my posting on this forum so the many visitors that see the forum every day. I think more visitors look at threads than forum members. Many may have been taught eternal security so I post here for them to see the other side of the argument they may have never seen. So for myself I do not see those threads going nowhere. If just one person learned the truth that eternal security is false then it was well worth the time and effort.

The Calvinists want the sinner to be saved IN his sins UNconditionally thereby again trying to invent a way to get a sinner to be in Christ and righteous without conditionally obeying/doing any righteousness whatsoever.

 

[SeaBass]

Let me ask a pointed question.

Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them?

Yes for God will not save the molester while he continues to molest.


A sinner must FIRST stop sinning/stop doing unrighteousness and start doing righteousness, THEN God will forgive them?

 

[SeaBass]

Brethern, We need to pray for ppl who think they must do more than trust in the blood of Jesus. Imagine the load of condemnation they carry, imagine what it must feel like to everyday think that you have disappointed the precious Savior, instead of trusting in HIS finished work. We need to pray that the Holy Spirit will help them understand, the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing dividing the soul and spirit, of the joints and marrow and is a discerner of thoughts and the intents of the heart. God sees the heart and wants us to pray for others not condemn.

What does it mean to "TRUST in the blood of Jesus"? Does that mean DOING what Jesus said, Lk 6:46?