Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[eternally-gratefull]

What is this? And attempt to respond my last question?

must wonder why you keep being shown messianic prophesy, which show literal events that will happen during his reign, yet never respond to them, or show when they happened (if they were fulfilled by Christ already as you claim)

Is there a reason for this?

You stated all Gods promises were salvic. can you show us what is salvic in crossnotes post. He was answering your remark.

 

[GuessWho]

They were? God promised that if Israel disobeyed him, He would destroy their high places and their enemy would take them as slaves.

What is salvic about that?

Do you even read scripture? Or are you to busy listening to some pastor, or priest, or pope who taught you all this crap?[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

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That is not a promise. Even a third grader understands that a promise is about something positive that will happen in the future. God simply warns Israel what will happen if she disobeys Him.


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[/FONT]Oh, I understand him fine, I understand the promise to Israel does not mean they will all be saved, because it was not a salvic promise. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

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[/FONT]Yes they did, Because like you they ASSumed God promise to them was salvic in nature, when it was not. This they were already saved because of that promise, all they needed was to be saved by rome.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

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[/FONT]They did not need a suffering servant to save them from sin, Because they though they were by Gods promises to them as a nation.

???

When you write you understand what you say?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/FONT]
That is not a promise. Even a third grader understands that a promise is about something positive that will happen in the future. God simply warns Israel what will happen if she disobeys Him.

Nice twist. A promise is something that you intend to do. no matter what.

God made that promise of what he would do, and he carried it out. 3 times in fact.

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When you write you understand what you say?

I understand completely Maybe you do not because you do not understand Gods promises? Who the suffering servant was supposed to be. And why the pharisees really rejected Christ.

 

[GuessWho]

must wonder why you keep being shown messianic prophesy, which show literal events that will happen during his reign, yet never respond to them, or show when they happened (if they were fulfilled by Christ already as you claim)

Is there a reason for this?

You see how you don't make any sense? You say "messianic prophesy" that will happen during his "reign". In your head, Messiah didn't yet come. And when He will come, those prophecies in Zechariah will take place during His reign. You see how you reject that Christ is the Messiah?

You stated all Gods promises were salvic. can you show us what is salvic in crossnotes post. He was answering your remark.

Can you make the difference between promise and prophecy?

 

[GuessWho]

Please, eternally-grateful, you look like a fool when you claim to believe in Jesus Christ and at the same time wait for the prophesied Messiah.

 

[crossnote]

What is this? And attempt to respond my last question?

It's an effort to get you to explain where this prophecy fits in to the larger scheme of things. ..

Zechariah 14:1-5
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You see how you don't make any sense? You say "messianic prophesy" that will happen during his "reign". In your head, Messiah didn't yet come. And when He will come, those prophecies in Zechariah will take place during His reign. You see how you reject that Christ is the Messiah?

No. I do not reject Christ as messiah. I reject that zechariah was fulfilled up until this date.

You have been asked by a few of us to show us how it was fulfilled. Yet you refuse to answer. just make an attack.

And you wonder why we think you act like a pharisee (they did the same to Christ)

Can you make the difference between promise and prophecy?

No. but it seems you can.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please, eternally-grateful, you look like a fool when you claim to believe in Jesus Christ and at the same time wait for the prophesied Messiah.

Please my friend, You look like a fool when you claim jesus fulfilled all prophesies, yet refuse to show how certain prophesies were fulfilled.

I am not waiting on the messiah to return. It most likely will occure long after I am dead and gone (although if the world keeps going the way it is, I may be wrong about that)

I am saved and going to heaven. I am not here to discuss why I want the messiah to come, and show how I am waiting for it (thats your misunderstanding and again false witness against me)

I am here to discuss why God will KEEP ALL His promises. and fulfill ALL HIS Prophesies.

 

[GuessWho]

It's an effort to get you to explain where this prophecy fits in to the larger scheme of things. ..

Zechariah 14:1-5
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

I do not know. I only know that Zechariah prophesied about the coming of the Messiah (which happened) and this passage probably talks about the destruction of Jerusalem (which also took place).

I now that if Zechariah prophesied the coming of the Lord, he prophesied the coming of Christ as Messiah and not the Second Coming of Christ. It really wouldn't make any sense to foretell that the Lord (whom Jews and the world didn't yet know because Zechariah lived before Jesus) will come for a Second Time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's an effort to get you to explain where this prophecy fits in to the larger scheme of things. ..

Zechariah 14:1-5
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

I would love to hear what she says also. but it seems she has no answer. so she will not respond. But I guess maybe there will be hope she will?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not know. I only know that Zechariah prophesied about the coming of the Messiah (which happened) and this passage probably talks about the destruction of Jerusalem (which also took place).

I now that if Zechariah prophesied the coming of the Lord, he prophesied the coming of Christ as Messiah and not the Second Coming of Christ. It really wouldn't make any sense to foretell that the Lord (whom Jews and the world didn't yet know because Zechariah lived before Jesus) will come for a Second Time.

here is the problem.

If this is Zechariah foretelling the coming of Christ, then everything the prophet said would happen would have happened. If it does not. the power of the prophesy ceases, and Gods reputation as a prophet is tarnished.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Peaceful Please go back and and read what you said very carefully on these things. You contradict yourself.

On one hand you do say that the Kingdom was here in the form Jesus and then you turn around and say the kingdom is not here,which is it?

The kingdom, as in the King, was physically there in their midst. The Pharisees asked "when the kingdom of God would come" . . . this was asked in derision - they were demanding to know when the kingdom of God would come wanting to discredit him before the people who believed that Jesus was the Messiah, the King. In essence saying "If you are the King, where's your Kingdom." Jesus' answer - 1) they would not need to search for the Kingdom (v23) because 2) when it did come it would be like lightning that lights up the entire sky--everyone would see it (v24); and 3) as in was in the past in the time of Noah - people will be living life normally with no thought - so it will be in the "day the Son of Man is revealed" (v26,30). The Pharisees did not RECOGNIZE him - they did not ACKNOWLEDGE him - They had him crucified. The "King" is no longer here physically BUT He will return as King of Kings and rule over his future kingdom.

It's strange how on one hand you will say that the kingdom verses MUST BE FULFILLED Literally yet on Mark 9:1,Mathew 12 and Luke 9 with the same idea it is NO LONGER a literal passage. Did the disciples that were standing there see the KINGDOM OF GOD COME in power? No one can say they saw Jesus set up His throne ON EARTH during the disciples lifetime.

This is what I said:
I went to look at some commentaries on this and boy, are they scattered in their interpretations . . . Not many are sure but they do agree with the fact that it has to have something to do with the transfiguration - At the transfiguration when Moses and Elijah appeared - they spoke of his departure - (his death and resurrection). His resurrection is what brought the holy Spirit and gave the apostles "power from on high" or "power from above". If the commentaries are not sure about this - then I sure as heck don't know for sure. But these 3 scriptures do not negate how other prophecies have been literally fulfilled and it's funny how you want to read those scripture with a literal meaning; they could mean something entirely different than what you or I am thinking.
I'm glad you fully understand since I can't even find commentaries by scholars that can agree . . . .

Peaceful 2 Corinthians 2:4 says this

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.

Excuse me - 2 Corinthians 4:4 - In whom the god of this world . . . . .

Revelation 12

Does not say one word about Satan and the angels that were cast out ruling on earth.

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I guess you posted this because you believe that verses 7-9 have not yet occurred? Who do you think walks about seeking whom he may devour? Who do you think our spiritual warfare is with? When Adam and Eve fell and lost dominion over the earth - who do you think got it? He tempted Jesus with it: The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, It will all be yours. And 2 Cor. 4:4 calls him the "god of this world".

I can't roll things out of my mouth and onto a keyboard as easy and as quick as it seems EG and Cross can do (LOL) but there are some things that are just fact:

1) God has declared that Israel is not to cease from being a nation before Him for ever.
2) The promise of a land to the descendants of Abraham,
3) the promise of a son of David's own line is to occupy David's throne for ever

These have not been fulfilled. The OT promises are all as certain of fulfillment in their OT sense and meaning and purpose to Israel, as are the NT promises are certain of fulfillment to the Church.

 

[crossnote]

I do not know. I only know that Zechariah prophesied about the coming of the Messiah (which happened) and this passage probably talks about the destruction of Jerusalem (which also took place).

I now that if Zechariah prophesied the coming of the Lord, he prophesied the coming of Christ as Messiah and not the Second Coming of Christ. It really wouldn't make any sense to foretell that the Lord (whom Jews and the world didn't yet know because Zechariah lived before Jesus) will come for a Second Time.

If Zech 14:1-5 is prophecying the destruction of Jerusalem then the Lord did a terrible job fighting against His enemies. ..but I'm glad you initially confessed that you didn't know.

 

[GuessWho]

If Zech 14:1-5 is prophecying the destruction of Jerusalem then the Lord did a terrible job fighting against His enemies. ..but I'm glad you initially confessed that you didn't know.

The Lord didn't do a terrible job fighting against His enemies! How many times do I have to say that Christ pointed towards the sin as the real enemy and not towards pagan nations. He defeated sin and evil on the cross!

Really, you did not read the N.T?

When Christ chased the merchandisers from the Temple He made a point: the problem is not the pagan nations, but the "adulterous" Israel. The Temple wasn't defiled by pagans, but by Jews!

 

[crossnote]

The Lord didn't do a terrible job fighting against His enemies! How many times do I have to say that Christ pointed towards the sin as the real enemy and not towards pagan nations. He defeated sin and evil on the cross!

Really, you did not read the N.T?

When Christ chased the merchandisers from the Temple He made a point: the problem is not the pagan nations, but the "adulterous" Israel. The Temple wasn't defiled by pagans, but by Jews!

So you went with Zech 14:1-5 from referring to the destruction of Jerusalem to Jesus' crucifixion. ..anything but a future literal fulfillment where His feet stand on the Mount of Olives and the Mount cleaves in two...anything to fit your preconceived notions even if it means spiritualizing scripture. OK, I'm done for now.

 

[Straightshot]

As I watch GW I can see that this person has either been been severely deceived by a religious affiliation or is playing a mind game for sport

However, the continuous repetition of the insistence and then denial that the Lord is going to intervene again, and that the balance of the unfulfilled prophetic scriptures have already passed is pure hyper-preterism

This view is another gospel entirely which has no scriptural support whatsoever, and for one to go on and on without measure in an irrational fashion speaks of cultish entrapment

To bring one out of such deprivation is near next to impossible and particularly on an Internet forum where the individual can hide

Success must be accompanied with face to face encounter .... and even then, the chances for moving such a person out of the entrapment are very small

 

[GuessWho]

As I watch GW I can see that this person has either been been severely deceived by a religious affiliation or is playing a mind game for sport

However, the continuous repetition of the insistence and then denial that the Lord is going to intervene again, and that the balance of the unfulfilled prophetic scriptures have already passed is pure hyper-preterism

This view is another gospel entirely which has no scriptural support whatsoever, and for one to go on and on without measure in an irrational fashion speaks of cultish entrapment

To bring one out of such deprivation is near next to impossible and particularly on an Internet forum where the individual can hide

Success must be accompanied with face to face encounter .... and even then, the chances for moving such a person out of the entrapment are very small

A-ha. So, it is me who deny that Christ fulfilled all promises made by God towards Israel, not those who expect a political (maybe even military) intervention of God (through the Messiah) in Israel.

 

[prove-all]

Why where the Jews given the oracles of God, and what where they ?

go back and look at the bible, most everything wrighten was about Isreal,

or about other countrys around it or involved with it, even Jesus.

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

37Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of
the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
for all that they have done, saith the Lord.


​

 

[Straightshot]

You think about your own question above GW

Actually it is you that suggests the Lord's termination of His future intent to bring a believing remnant of the nation under His covenant with the same .... the prophetic scriptures check your position hands down

But you just walk passed them

Replacement theologies often go hand in hand with the religious dogma of preterism

Preterism serves to support religions that are anti-Semitic and strive to hijack Israel's biblically set position for themselves

There are a number of sects, big and small, within and without professing Christianity that have fallen for the aberrant teaching of pied pipers who tout the same song

 

[GuessWho]

You think about your own question above GW

Actually it is you that suggests the Lord's termination of His future intent to bring a believing remnant of the nation under His covenant with the same .... the prophetic scriptures check your position hands down

I believe God's intent is that all people enter in His covenant (that includes believing remnant of the nation). I do not believe He will sent another Messiah.

But you just walk passed them

Like what?

Replacement theologies often go hand in hand with the religious dogma of preterism

Preterism serves to support religions that are anti-Semitic and strive to hijack Israel's biblically set position for themselves

There are a number of sects, big and small, within and without professing Christianity that have fallen for the aberrant teaching of pied pipers who tout the same song

I am not anti-semitic.