God did not establish the church!

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K

Kerry

Guest
#41
20 people in a household

Acts 4

Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

Acts 2
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Sounds like a big church to me.
 
J

jeff_peacemkr

Guest
#42
yes. out of what? 300,000.... 3,000,000 ?
 
J

jeff_peacemkr

Guest
#43
and, then again, today.... where have the people been immersed in Jesus' Name , and share all things in common as needed among even just the members, not counting outsiders in need ?
 
Jul 27, 2011
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#44
The church is a body of believers created by the Almighty as one mind of Christ, i believe.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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#45
We had a big brunch at 'church' today, setup tables in a big U shape, everyone brought food to share and we sat and ate together in one accord. Reflecting, it makes me think how people of all ages, shapes, sizes, places and races can come together in love with one common denominator, they are all bought by the blood of Jesus. The love between the saints is amazing, it amazes me how this can happen, such a blessing.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
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#46
People who usually rant on about church buildings and how they are not relevant or required, are usually people hiding from something, usually God and have had problems in the past that have not been resolved or dealt with.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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765
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#47
People who usually rant on about church buildings and how they are not relevant or required, are usually people hiding from something, usually God and have had problems in the past that have not been resolved or dealt with.
I have people I know, who are dear to me, who are in that same position. I've tried, but all I can do is watch them fade away into falsities and fables that come their way. I hate it but all I can do is pray.
Problem is, some of these people still have that in grain desire for fellowship so they can come to places like CC behind the computer screen, like a safety. Almost say what they want but not really accountable to anyone.

Proverbs 18:1
Whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire;
he breaks out against all sound judgment.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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#48
20 people in a household

Acts 4

Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.v

Acts 2
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Sounds like a big church to me.
Thats right. Acts 2:46. They actually gathered in the temple area to hear the full word for the first time. An evangelistic meeting, yet a dialogue. This was all new to them. Then they gathered in homes to have a full meal and fellowship. Who were the 2 gals that had meetings in their home? Somebody help me here.

The temple was destroyed in 70 AD. By this time the saints were well established at meeting in small groups. Pauls description of an every member participation meeting with Chrst as Head and the Holy Spirit engineering was to be the norm. The Father had prepared a body for His Son to manifest Hiimself through. The leg cannot say to to the arm 'we have no need of thee' like is the tone today in the entertainer/audience model.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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#49
How then can the gospel be preached and how shall they here without a preacher. I think you are hung up on money and cannot trust God with your money. You know whats best for your money and God don't. Keep reading and praying and maybe you will break through.

God caused the Earth not bring forth it's fullness because they would not give the tithes and He put holes in their pockets and interest rates went through he roof and the worms ate their crops and the raimns would not come and there cows got sick and died. The He said test Me and bring the tithe into the store house and see that I will not pour a blessing that will not have room to receive. It is the only thing that God said TEST ME.

The only way the Gospel can be preached is by people giving money. In fact the only reason God has held judgment back on America is because of our giving to the preaching of the gospel. If we go with your doctrine we are doomed.

We can say we have faith, but when we take groceries from our childrens mouth and place it in God's hand, that is faith.
Im not hung up on money I'm hung up on wolves devouring the poor, aren't you? And if not, why not?
Again the traveling preacher and missions are to be supported financially....but not to the extent of million dollar charlatans.
You don't know me. God led us to take my pension and make a movie to be given away free. 35k. So we did. I'm not hung up on money. I also give to the poor, careful to hear the still small voice'.

I point to the hirelings that twist the word in order to make financial gain. Now who is it that is greedy? Me that refuses to charge for the gospel to feather my own nest or those that illegally profit off the backs of the poor and the widow. I don't care how many times I make this point, with some, I'm still the bad guy. Sound familiar?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#50
People who usually rant on about church buildings and how they are not relevant or required, are usually people hiding from something, usually God and have had problems in the past that have not been resolved or dealt with.
It is not that the church buildings are not relevant, for they are to give a place to congregate together and worship God and also edify one another in learning and understanding to gain spiritual growth.
The part that I and some others would debate on is saying they are required, Jesus says where two or three are gathered in my name I am there among them. (Matthew 18:20)
If you have a couple people come to your house, go out into a field, or even under a tent and worship together to God. Then you are still doing the worship in the proper manner, and none of us is saying anything against congregating in big numbers in a building. For we know there is nothing wrong with that, but does not have to be the norm as the Lord pointed out. Any form of congregation rather small or big is acceptable in His sight. The only other problem I have with the buildings is that some people actual devotion is not to the Lord, but to their denomination.

We see this through the constant bickering between the denominations which is not the division (Matthew 10:35) the Lord spoke of that He came to do. We can also see that by people who think they are saved just because they go to church on Saturday, Sunday, or whatever other days you may go; But they truly still don't know the Lord and this shows in their actions. The other way I have seen this is when I have asked others the question, "How were you baptized?
The answer I get about 65% of the time is their denomination; baptized catholic, baptized baptist, baptized so and so......
When the true answer should be I was baptize in Jesus......
 

Chopper

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
402
11
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#51
Mat_16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Kepha, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Some translations use the word assembly instead of church.

The assembly is the body of the Messiah, and the temple which is no longer made with hands.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of YHWH, and that the Spirit of YHWH dwelleth in you?

1Co_6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Set-apart Spirit which is in you, which ye have of YHWH, and ye are not your own?

2Co_6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of YHWH with idols? for ye are the temple of the living Elohim; as YHWH hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#52
Mat_16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Kepha, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Some translations use the word assembly instead of church.

The assembly is the body of the Messiah, and the temple which is no longer made with hands.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of YHWH, and that the Spirit of YHWH dwelleth in you?

1Co_6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Set-apart Spirit which is in you, which ye have of YHWH, and ye are not your own?

2Co_6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of YHWH with idols? for ye are the temple of the living Elohim; as YHWH hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
Yes, "church" in the Greek is "called-out assembly," ekklesia,
and that is the meaning of "church" in the NT.

No matter what word was chosen to translate
ekklesia,
the word would still mean "called-out assembly" in the NT.

It's not complicated. It's a non-issue.

Just as "mystery" in English means something that is not understood,
but in the NT it means something that has never before been revealed, and is understood.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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#53
I walked into an ancient Catholic Church in Italy a couple of weeks ago. Some gal motioned for me to take my hat off. I made my quick exit. To the folks, this building is Gods house. The pagan temples of old were considered as the abodes of the gods and goddesses.
Christians today have been influenced by the same superstition. As they enter the building, off come the baseball caps out of some sort of feigned holy reverence for the sanctified edifice they believe God ordained as His dwelling place.
This is paganism in its richest form. Oh, the bro will try to convince you that he gets it...that God dwells in the believers, that we are the 'church', yet this holy mystique of subduing humility and knee bending reverence still captivates and holds the average christian in its unholy grip.
This is idolatry of brick and mortar and in some cases stained glass windows which radiates soft tone colors giving the air and atmosphere of heavenly presence and angelic beings.

Weve also made idols out of slick tongued orators, patterned after the Grecian forums, and put up on pedestals mere men as special gods among us. I digress. Sorry.

Podiums, pulpits, paid pulpiteers, and pampered, pompous, pontificates, preying on unsuspecting pew sitters. The 'church' building furnishings and arranged seating for an audience straight from the Greek forums of that day.

This is all idolatry, displacing Christs rightful position as the Head of His redeemed body of believers.
The local assembly is to be an interacting family, warm and loving, open to anyone with an anointed word or input. All exchanging between each other, ministering to one another with their functions and giftings.
The leg telling the arm 'we DO need you'.
The church building, as it is designed, is set for one and one person only, for the most part, to lavish upon the body his and only his talents, functions and gifts. As the Greek forums were designed. After all, that's why we pay him. The rest of the folks are given one function. To say amen to every jot and tittle of a 7 point sermon. And then hear the final words 'you are all dismissed'! Dismissed indeed...doesn't tell the half of it!!
The body of Christ along with Christ Himself is continually 'dismissed' by this ungodly system bequeathed to us by the pagan mysteries of old.
This is not by Gods design. Read your bible folks. Please read Pauls injunctions for the true assembly of the redeemed.
God has prepared a body for His Son, yet that body is listening to 'another'! Jesus keeps knocking!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
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#54
Yet, I am sorry you have had some bad experiences in a church building. I go to an awesome church, where God is worshipped in Spirit and in truth. The message of the gospel is preached weekly. We have small groups to get to know people in our homes and have some accountablity.

Further we have potlucks monthly, where we can fellowship with other believers. Our giving allows us to support missioinaries around the globe, the Pregnancy Care Center in town. We also support the Mustard Seed for the poor, Kindred House for prostitutes, and a DayCare for after school care for unsaved kids who are taught the gospel and the Bible every day. We host AA, Abused Women's groups, and we are starting a mission for the mentally ill in our church and community.

I don't know of anyone who does not use their God given gifts in our church. We are fitted together to do the work of God. That is what a true church is about. You can dress up or not, you can be involved or not, but most people find a place to fit in, and in serving one another, we serve Christ!

Rather than using the RCC as your example, try using various Protestant and non-denominational churches as your guide. I think we are all trying to live authentically within a body of believers to serve Christ, and to love one another, as Christ has loved us.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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#55
Paul wore out a lot of quills to pen the words for our assemblies to follow. Sorry about his luck, aren't you?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#56
Paul wore out a lot of quills to pen the words for our assemblies to follow. Sorry about his luck, aren't you?
You mistake the actual historical record for commands to follow.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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#58
I'll answer it. A historical only record would be Paul went to Rome to preach the gospel to the powers that be and was murdered
for his trouble.
The guidelines for a full body expression of Christ on this earth in the assembly of the saints is not only historical but sound doctrine to be followed.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#59
Elin said:
You mistake the actual historical record for commands to follow.
A historical only record would be Paul went to Rome to preach the gospel to the powers that be and was murdered for his trouble.
The guidelines for a full body expression of Christ on this earth in the assembly of the saints is not only historical but sound doctrine to be followed.
Jesus said the saints are assembled with tares, who were not to be separated from among them until the end.

Your problem is with the tares, who are not the body of Christ; i.e., the church.
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#60
It is claimed that Christ turned headship of the Church
over to Peter and his successors. In plain language, that Christ
“bowed out,” as it were—that men rule in place of Christ, as
head of the Church.

He merely taught His message—His gospel—to His disciples
during His mortal human lifetime! But the Church of
God was founded—was started—on the day of Pentecost

Now, since it is claimed that the rock on which the Church
was founded refers to Peter—and not Christ—notice the true
meaning, as originally written by Matthew. Matthew wrote in
the Greek language

Then Jesus added: “And I say also unto thee, That thou art
Peter” (Greek inspired original word, Petros, meaning a stone),

“and upon this rock” (Greek inspired original word, petra,
meaning a ledge or shelf of rock or a crag) “I will build my
church …” (Matthew 16:18).

Peter was also called Cephas (Greek Képhas, from the
Aramaic Kêpha). In John 1:40-42 is related how Andrew,
Simon Peter’s brother, found Peter, and brought him to Jesus.

“And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son
of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation,
a stone”

The English word stone is translated from the Greek word petros,
meaning a single stone or loose stone. Also the Greek word Kephas
means such a stone, referring definitely to a human man.

when Jesus said “upon this rock I will build my
church” (Matthew 16:18), the Greek word, as written originally
by Matthew, was not either Kephas or petros, but petra, which
means a large massive rock.


a few other passages where this same Greek word petra
is used. In Matthew 7:24, Jesus spoke of the man who built his
house on a rock. The Greek word is petra

In Matthew 27:60, it is stated that the tomb in which Jesus
was buried, after the crucifixion, was hewn out in the rock —
in the petra! This is a mass of rock, not a single stone.

The Greek petra cannot mean the human Peter, but the
glorified Christ! Speaking of the Israelites under Moses, in
the wilderness, Paul writes: “… for they drank of that spiritual
Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ”


In plain language, then, that petra was Christ—but the
smaller stone, petros, or Kephas, was Simon Peter.

Behold, I lay in Sion [the Church] a chief corner stone, elect, precious:
and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto
you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them
which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed,
the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense, even to them which stumble at the
word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed”
(1 Peter 2:6-8).

In the above passage Peter is speaking to the Church.
He quoted from Isaiah 28:16: “Therefore thus saith the Lord
God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation, a stone, a tried
stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation”! This pictures
Christ as that foundation of the Church, on which it is
built. God’s Church was built on the ROCK (its foundation),
Christ—not on the stone, Peter

The Church is described in Ephesians 2:20 as being “built
upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets [including
Old Testament prophets], Jesus Christ himself being the chief
corner stone.”

“For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11)

“I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” (Hebrews 13:5)He is shown
in Revelation 1:13, 18 to be the living Head, spiritually in the midst of the Church.

“Christ is the head of the church”! (Ephesians 5:23). Read it
also in Ephesians 4:15; 1:22; Colossians 1:18; 2:19.

He has been the living Head and High
Priest of the true Church, which He built.

It was on the day of Pentecost, a.d. 31. On that day, Christ, as He had promised (John 16:7),
sent the Holy Spirit to enter into His disciples,thus baptizing—or plunging them into, the Church.

The word church comes from the Greek ekklesia, which means congregation
of people. The Church of God consists of people—the
begotten children of God. It consists of—and only of—those who
have been begotten of God by having received His Holy Spirit.

So it was Jesus Christ, who went to heaven, and sent God’s
Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, who founded the Church.

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves
as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their