In Christ, or in Sin

[InSpiritInTruth]

I've heard some people say they are in Christ, but yet they are are still living in sin. Is this possible? First think about what it truly means to be in Christ before you answer. For Christ knew no sin. And so, if you claim to be in Christ and still living in sin at the same time, does not that speak evil of Christ? Think about it.


Let me give you 2 absolute truths which do not contradict in 1 John 3:8-9 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now I'm not saying men have not, or cannot sin, because we know all men have sinned, and he who says he has never sinned is a liar. But what this thread is speaking of is those who are truly born again in Christ, can they remain in sin and also in Christ at the same time? What are your thoughts.

 

[T_Laurich]

Great verse... I think John 3:6, helps give boundaries to your verses though...

In my opinion, if you don't realize that everytime someone uses His holy glorious name in vein, that they are spitting in his blood drenched face...
If you don't realize every time you "stumble" Christ is slaughtered for that "stumbling"...
Everytime we over look a sexual advertisement, lust in our heart, or hate in our heart... Christ is hung on that cross...


And He does this so we have an escape from a place where the worm does not die, and the fire only gets hotter...


A man who willingly sins, does not love Christ as a friend, Every time I "STUMBLE" I am killing the only friend I have ever known, or will ever know... May He have mercy on our souls... To be counted worthy to be atoned by his death on that cross, there is no higher honor...

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I hear what your saying, but we can't keep killing Christ over and over again by remaining in and out of sin continually. Just as a man who is faithful to his wife will not keep committing adultery over and over again and be sincere when he says he truly loves his wife.

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[AtonedFor]

I've heard some people say they are in Christ, but yet they are are still living in sin.
Is this possible?

No, it is not possible.
When Paul says "in Christ" he is referring to those who are walking in the Spirit, etc.

The churches don't want to condemn anyone (for all of their various reasons),
so they just say one is "in Christ" if they happen to be born-again.

 

[ISeeYou]

I've heard some people say they are in Christ, but yet they are are still living in sin. Is this possible? First think about what it truly means to be in Christ before you answer. For Christ knew no sin. And so, if you claim to be in Christ and still living in sin at the same time, does not that speak evil of Christ? Think about it.


Let me give you 2 absolute truths which do not contradict in 1 John 3:8-9 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now I'm not saying men have not, or cannot sin, because we know all men have sinned, and he who says he has never sinned is a liar. But what this thread is speaking of is those who are truly born again in Christ, can they remain in sin and also in Christ at the same time? What are your thoughts.

Yeah most will post one or the other of those sin verses but if you lay them out they speak differently

I have tried to lay these out before showing by comparing them how each speaks and/or their contrasts

1Jon 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Why?

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I could be incorrect here, but these two seem to the same

John 8:7 He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Only because this seems to indicate not a "have not" (in the past thing) concerning sin but having it in us (at all)

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

And now here (these two)

1John 3:9 Whosover is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God

In light of the grace we are under, sin shall not have dominion over us at some point grace does not permit one to sin under it to the contrary sin shall not have dominion over one under it.

Whereas it also says...

1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewisewith the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin

Quite the contrary here,

2Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Though I thought me and you had disagreed on a point or two in this thing before, I forget which though.

Theres no way you can feel comfortable sinning or continuing in sin unless you are just plain turned over to it, it doesnt make sense to be comfortable in it. Even when I was unsure about whether something was or not, I had an uncomfortable feeling that I had better pretty soon make up my mind about it.

And if I couldnt I would get rid of just for the uneasiness I felt concerning it or it would haunt me lol

 

[john832]

I hear what your saying, but we can't keep killing Christ over and over again by remaining in and out of sin continually. Just as a man who is faithful to his wife will not keep committing adultery over and over again and be sincere when he says he truly loves his wife.

We don't kill Christ over and over, we ask that the one time sacrifice be applied in our individual circumstance again. It is a one time sacrifice that is so great that it can be applied however many times we need it.

Christ knew this and instructed us to ask forgiveness daily...

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:...

Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Paul (I think he wrote Hebrews, YMMV) says this...

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Ever need grace more than just once?

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

And I agree with this when you read it in context...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

A willful, deliberate turning away from God and His grace is an unpardonable sin.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yeah most will post one or the other of those sin verses but if you lay them out they speak differently

I have tried to lay these out before showing by comparing them how each speaks and/or their contrasts

1Jon 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Why?

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I could be incorrect here, but these two seem to the same

John 8:7 He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Only because this seems to indicate not a "have not" (in the past thing) concerning sin but having it in us (at all)

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

And now here (these two)

1John 3:9 Whosover is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God

In light of the grace we are under, sin shall not have dominion over us at some point grace does not permit one to sin under it to the contrary sin shall not have dominion over one under it.

Whereas it also says...

1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewisewith the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin

Quite the contrary here,

2Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Though I thought me and you had disagreed on a point or two in this thing before, I forget which though.

Theres no way you can feel comfortable sinning or continuing in sin unless you are just plain turned over to it, it doesnt make sense to be comfortable in it. Even when I was unsure about whether something was or not, I had an uncomfortable feeling that I had better pretty soon make up my mind about it.

And if I couldnt I would get rid of just for the uneasiness I felt concerning it or it would haunt me lol

Yes, that uneasiness and that uncomfortable feeling is the conviction of the Holy Spirit (Listen to Him) good post Sis.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

We don't kill Christ over and over, we ask that the one time sacrifice be applied in our individual circumstance again. It is a one time sacrifice that is so great that it can be applied however many times we need it.

Christ knew this and instructed us to ask forgiveness daily...

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:...

Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Paul (I think he wrote Hebrews, YMMV) says this...

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Ever need grace more than just once?



And I agree with this when you read it in context...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

A willful, deliberate turning away from God and His grace is an unpardonable sin.

Yes people will mess up from time to time, and we do have an advocate with the Father for those few times.
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

But it is that continual sinning over and over again(willfully sinning) that's leads to ones falling away. So I believe we're on the same page (so to speak).

 

[john832]

Yes people will mess up from time to time, and we do have an advocate with the Father for those few times.
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

But it is that continual sinning over and over again(willfully sinning) that's leads to ones falling away. So I believe we're on the same page (so to speak).

We are in agreement here. Again, I was playing off of your comments. If you have misunderstood my left-handed approach, I am sorry.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

We are in agreement here. Again, I was playing off of your comments. If you have misunderstood my left-handed approach, I am sorry.

No need to be sorry, I like it when people use scripture to prove their points. You won't find me arguing against scripture, as I believe your views were pretty much in line with what I also believe.

 

[ISeeYou]

No need to be sorry, I like it when people use scripture to prove their points. You won't find me arguing against scripture, as I believe your views were pretty much in line with what I also believe.

The only folks I find it near impossible to talk to folks that beat their chests like a gorilla and say the same ol' in that in that natural brute beast mind, and theres just no talking to it. Its unreasonable, with its, "nuh uh's" or "save it dude's" or "whatever's" (etc). Somewhat embarrassing to respond to that knowing you will just get more of the same (lol)

Then tries to sound a tad intelligent by throwing in a, "get a hermeneutic dude" (lol)

But it just basically blows hot air all over posts but who typically add absolutely nothing to it (ever).

These too, are often followed up by a handful of backslappers who need someone who is given a mouth (to "say something", if only just to huff and puff at others). And these might follow up behind the same quoting the latest ear ticklers book over at amazon. And now we have new chapter and verses (of their new favorite book) enter into "bible discussion" as if they are the words of God.

Now that, I dont quite understand.

Might as well be quoting me out of your toasters manual (lol)

And to John832 good post I was thinking the same, He giveth more grace amen.

I am not particularly good at left handed approaches (unlike InSpiritInTruth) anyone here who takes the same with me will likely have to remind me because I will sit here very confused for awhile. And will likely misunderstand you as I did that with Butch yesterday LOL

And sorry too, I did go off topic here a tad.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The only folks I find it near impossible to talk to folks that beat their chests like a gorilla and say the same ol' in that in that natural brute beast mind, and theres just no talking to it. Its unreasonable, with its, "nuh uh's" or "save it dude's" or "whatever's" (etc). Somewhat embarrassing to respond to that knowing you will just get more of the same (lol)

Then tries to sound a tad intelligent by throwing in a, "get a hermeneutic dude" (lol)

But it just basically blows hot air all over posts but who typically add absolutely nothing to it (ever).

These too, are often followed up by a handful of backslappers who need someone who is given a mouth (to "say something", if only just to huff and puff at others). And these might follow up behind the same quoting the latest ear ticklers book over at amazon. And now we have new chapter and verses (of their new favorite book) enter into "bible discussion" as if they are the words of God.

Now that, I dont quite understand.

Might as well be quoting me out of your toasters manual (lol)

And to John832 good post I was thinking the same, He giveth more grace amen.

I am not particularly good at left handed approaches (unlike InSpiritInTruth) anyone here who takes the same with me will likely have to remind me because I will sit here very confused for awhile. And will likely misunderstand you as I did that with Butch yesterday LOL

And sorry too, I did go off topic here a tad.

I would say all in all, the members of this forum has been pretty respectful of others, and for the most part polite in their disagreements (with a few exceptions). I know I've seen worse, so I'm not complaining. lol

 

[ISeeYou]

I would say all in all, the members of this forum has been pretty respectful of others, and for the most part polite in their disagreements (with a few exceptions). I know I've seen worse, so I'm not complaining. lol

I agree, there will always be a bad apple in the bunch, but its been a rather pleasant experience here.

 

[notuptome]

At issue here is the new nature in Christ and the old nature warring against each other. Paul was struggling with this as do all Christians. No Christian is ever going to achieve sinless perfection while living in this vile body of flesh. We are only saved from the penalty of sin right now. When we are united with our Savior in heaven we will be saved from the presence of sin as well.

Yes strive everyday to live for Christ. Strive to live holy and pure for His glory but know when you fail that you are forgiven and Christ understands the weakness of the flesh having experienced the same temptations in His body.

False piety is of no merit. It is the disease of the religious but lost crowd. Pharisees and legalists beware.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Hizikyah]

At issue here is the new nature in Christ and the old nature warring against each other. Paul was struggling with this as do all Christians. No Christian is ever going to achieve sinless perfection while living in this vile body of flesh. We are only saved from the penalty of sin right now. When we are united with our Savior in heaven we will be saved from the presence of sin as well.

Yes strive everyday to live for Christ. Strive to live holy and pure for His glory but know when you fail that you are forgiven and Christ understands the weakness of the flesh having experienced the same temptations in His body.

False piety is of no merit. It is the disease of the religious but lost crowd. Pharisees and legalists beware.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."

 

[ROSARAJAN]

1 John 3:4
Everyone who keeps living in sin also practices disobedience. In fact, sin is disobedience.

We who live in Christ,are being perfected by God as a potter works on His clay ,but none of us may posses the complete knowledge and power to obey God perfectly, but as much has been revealed to us we must do justice to that information/knowledge to the known will of God.

If we fail to do justice to that knowledge we sin intentionally and those sins committed in our ignorance of the will of God and His WORD can be called unintentional sins .

 

[john832]

1 John 3:4
Everyone who keeps living in sin also practices disobedience. In fact, sin is disobedience.

We who live in Christ,are being perfected by God as a potter works on His clay ,but none of us may posses the complete knowledge and power to obey God perfectly, but as much has been revealed to us we must do justice to that information/knowledge to the known will of God.

If we fail to do justice to that knowledge we sin intentionally and those sins committed in our ignorance of the will of God and His WORD can be called unintentional sins .

Very good indeed!

 

[ISeeYou]

Very good indeed!

Im with John, very good

And your first post too

 

[crossnote]

I've heard some people say they are in Christ, but yet they are are still living in sin. Is this possible? First think about what it truly means to be in Christ before you answer. For Christ knew no sin. And so, if you claim to be in Christ and still living in sin at the same time, does not that speak evil of Christ? Think about it.


Let me give you 2 absolute truths which do not contradict in 1 John 3:8-9 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now I'm not saying men have not, or cannot sin, because we know all men have sinned, and he who says he has never sinned is a liar. But what this thread is speaking of is those who are truly born again in Christ, can they remain in sin and also in Christ at the same time? What are your thoughts.

Once in Christ, always in Christ as Christ is in us. Yes, christians do sin and it is possible. Should they sin?...of course not. Whatever is not of faith is sin.

 

[ISeeYou]

In John Jesus said,

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

And John speaks of transgressing by not abiding in the doctrine of Christ and therefore having not God in the so doing here

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Jesus said if a branch abideth not me my Father taketh away.

How does that mesh with the whole abiding in Christ always abiding in Christ theory

Branches cannot be broken off then?