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The church fathers talked and thought in a continuum, not in a vacuum. So, if christianity believes in the Holy Trinity is because the very first christians also approached God like this. It is true that the very first christians did not understand the Holy Trinity like us and they did not look at Jesus like at the "second person of the Trinity". But they did understood very well that by accepting Jesus Christ they accept God Himself and that by rejecting Jesus Christ they reject God. Also, the pharisees knew that Jesus Christ said and did what only the temple could do (why only the temple? because the temple was the dwelling place of God). So, if Jesus Christ purposely acted like He was the temple, it means that He implied that God dwells in Him.
Jesus Christ forgave sins, said that salvation entered in the house of Zaccheus (Jesus referred to himself as being salvation), He implied that just because one is sitting in His presence that person is sanctified no matter that the person did not respect the dietary law (remember when the pharisees and the disciples of John asked Jesus why don't His disciples fast?).
I could go on but I want to see a little effort and good will from your part too.[/QUOTE]
No, the reason they never understood the trinity was because there was no trinity.
Problem is you have too much faith in man, and MAN said Jesus was god
Jesus said he is just a man, OT said God is not a man nor the son of man, Jesus said he was the son of man.
OH , so we decide to take "I AM" and use that to Jesus?
I bet jesus didnt even say I AM , and i bet I AM didnt even mean nothing, remember the bibles werent fully established untill wayyyy later on. And jesus didnt even get to authenticate anything from the bible. All we believe was made from the words of MEN.
God said TRUST NO MAN, why? Because us humans are not perfect.
The little Hindus that grow up today believing Ghandi is god, why do they believe?
Because their fathers believed, and if discussing with them they would do anything and say anything to prove it.
Well i was like that too and thats just us humans how were programmed, but i opened my mind, i dont need to read it with an open mind because ive been doing that. maybe you should take your own advice
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Umm I wouldnt i wouldnt say anything unless ive done a little kind of research..
JUDASIM
CHRISTIANITY
ISLAM
Are sister religions.. All teachings are the same even our laws, they just choose to live old school today thats what ive noticed.
Im a neutral guy ok? I dont hate no one or try to be racist. I do like alot of what ive heard about muhammad and I DONT like alot of what i heard, Thats what books and studying is for. To find out the truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2UlXHvKvkc ...
On the contrary! That is the question with which every christian discussion should start!
Don't be a coward! Say yes or no. You either believe with all your heart that He is risen (and don't need books to tell you that), either you believe He is dead, and can move on to the next religion or to atheism.
Don't be a coward! Say yes or no. You either believe with all your heart that He is risen (and don't need books to tell you that), either you believe He is dead, and can move on to the next religion or to atheism.
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I ask you who claims to know the bible, what is Eternal life?
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. - John 3:36
Not Jesus's words.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3
Quoted in the bible by jesus
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. - John 3:36
Not Jesus's words.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3
Quoted in the bible by jesus
J
The Trinity is a first Century doctrine recorded by many trustworthy sources. Se my exhaustive study on this topic here: http://christianchat.com/blogs/jettrooper/6781-trinity-part-1.html
if you cared to listen to what i said
yet did the one that sent them already tell them this via the prophets, and by the spoken words of jesus and john (b), and his apostles etc
6 He says, "It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also make You a light of the nations
So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth."
7 Thus says the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel and its Holy One,
Isaiah 49
acts 15 what law is a gentile given to follow.
rebuke away, he that is for you. is not against you.
i dont need your forgiveness. when i need your forgivness i would not need jesus,
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
you must think your the only one god give power too via the holy spirit.
god bless you.
yet did the one that sent them already tell them this via the prophets, and by the spoken words of jesus and john (b), and his apostles etc
6 He says, "It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also make You a light of the nations
So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth."
7 Thus says the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel and its Holy One,
Isaiah 49
acts 15 what law is a gentile given to follow.
rebuke away, he that is for you. is not against you.
i dont need your forgiveness. when i need your forgivness i would not need jesus,
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
you must think your the only one god give power too via the holy spirit.
god bless you.
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Sorry please elaborate the point in your own words so i understand what your trying to tell me with this scripture.
I take in all these verses but you see, when was this verse ,21, said? And by who?
Just because he said that means that Jesus died for a reason?
Please answer this, everyone that wants to; Why did jesus come in the first place?
What do you think about Muhammad' misconceptions on christianity? For instance, when he says that God could not have had a son because God does not have a wife? What can you say about this childish approach of Muhammad on the Holy Trinity?
(It is obvious for every body, even for those who didn't study and researched, that Muhammad had no idea what is the christian belief)
(It is obvious for every body, even for those who didn't study and researched, that Muhammad had no idea what is the christian belief)
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Look, i dont believe Jesus came to change anything or start a new teaching ok? Thats what i believe.
I believe he was risen, i believe he is the truth and the life, but i also believe many people took those words , and examples and made different beliefs then what it truly meant.. understood now? Thats just what i believe, and my duty is to find out if those teachings are correct or not. Im just learning dude.. Im using common sense.
Jesus says he came to preach the word of god and the kingdom of god, SO NO CHRISTIAN THAT CLAIMS TO BE A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST SOULD SAY HE CAME FOR ANY OTHER REASON NO MATTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE...
hope these help.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 5
and
22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.2Galatians 3
through faith not law.
act 15 gentiles were not given the full law because through faith or believing in jesus
6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. etc
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 5
and
22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.2Galatians 3
through faith not law.
act 15 gentiles were not given the full law because through faith or believing in jesus
6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. etc
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That's not the question. The question is who is Jesus Christ? What is that started the christian movement?
I try to see common sense in you but can't find any. You are slow in making some logical and common sense connections.
Jesus Christ' resurrection started the christian movement, not His teachings, not His miracles. Do you understand now? Everything of what we believe is based on Jesus Christ' resurrection. His teachings, miracles, words, everything depends on His resurrection.
That means that He was who He said He was. He sent the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost and formed the Church (communion with God) and ever since the apostles spread the good news all over the world: that death has been defeated! That the love of the living God responded to the earth! that Jesus Christ is Lord!
So, christians strive to receive the Holy Spirit which God sent to us at the Pentecost, in order to partake with the life and love of the Holy Trinity.
That's what you understood. Jesus Christ' mission was not to proselytize to people, but to save them from sin and death!
No muslim can take away from christians the freedom and joy that they found in Jesus Christ who is God blessed forever!
I try to see common sense in you but can't find any. You are slow in making some logical and common sense connections.
Jesus Christ' resurrection started the christian movement, not His teachings, not His miracles. Do you understand now? Everything of what we believe is based on Jesus Christ' resurrection. His teachings, miracles, words, everything depends on His resurrection.
That means that He was who He said He was. He sent the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost and formed the Church (communion with God) and ever since the apostles spread the good news all over the world: that death has been defeated! That the love of the living God responded to the earth! that Jesus Christ is Lord!
So, christians strive to receive the Holy Spirit which God sent to us at the Pentecost, in order to partake with the life and love of the Holy Trinity.
That's what you understood. Jesus Christ' mission was not to proselytize to people, but to save them from sin and death!
No muslim can take away from christians the freedom and joy that they found in Jesus Christ who is God blessed forever!
So, you have the same gross (mis)understanding of the Holy Trinity as Muhammad did. Muhammad was not very cultivated and did not do researches and studies. But at least, he never claimed he did.
We christians don't believe that God is the biological father of Jesus Christ. Only you and Muhammad could have such stupid approach. Only that Muhammad has an excuse, while you don't.
We christians don't believe that God is the biological father of Jesus Christ. Only you and Muhammad could have such stupid approach. Only that Muhammad has an excuse, while you don't.