British Actor's Attack On God

[Human]

So it's not that you don't believe in God its just that God doesn't "fit" what you want. We don't understand everything about God so we just question Him on "why". Instead of giving ourselves to Him we want Him to give Himself to us. Actually God did give himself to us when He went to the cross.

God's sacrafice doesn't make sense to a lot of people within its own boundaries, because it doesn't seem reasonable. It does not seem reasonable to create a creation that has the potential to be less than what you intend and demand that it be. It does not seem reasonable to create a creation that has no control over the conditions from which its own nature springs when you desire it to be different than what its nature is. It does not seem reasonable to create a creation knowing with foresight that it will be unsatisfactory to your desires for what its function must be. It does not seem reasonable to create a creation that can feel upon whom you could inflict unbearable suffering for not being able to defy the contraints you yourself have imposed on it.

If an engineer made a building to stand tall through hurricanes, but pulled out one of the foundational parts of the building that gave it sway in storms, and he knew that this would mean it would be unfit for its purpose, then when the building toppled he blamed the building rather than his design, would you say that engineer was being reasonable?

 

[ColinCat]

We can know God without knowing everything about Him.
Suffering in creation exists because of mankind's rebellion against God. Suffering is on the consequences of sin. Sin comes in many forms - physical, mental, spiritual. God is sovereign but He gave humanity free will to choose Him or to be their own God. We chose wrongly. Now all creation suffers. But we have a Saviour to give us hope in this life and the next, to rescue us from sin, death and the Enemy. But of course, that answer won't satisfy you. You make it seem as if Christians never struggle with the hard questions of life, we absolutely do. That said, we have less doubts, because we know where our identity and purpose lies. Grace is offered to you too. Just take it!

Im not saying you dont face hard questions.. You just avoid answering them...

Again... So because of other people's actions, god gives bone cancer to children?

 

[SoulWeaver]

So your saying a loving god gives these innocent kids bone cancer because of what other people have done? Thats what I'm picking up here.

He is not giving them bone cancer YOU're giving them bone cancer. We're all connected, like it or not. We're the parts of one Body of which in due times the sick parts (Matt 5:29) will get cut off. So the more you keep being stiffnecked and rejecting God with your God hating friends and invite satan to do his works in the world you're making sure the more of sickness and death will be there. And because we're one body, because we have been meant for unity in love, but people dont love, innocent parts get hit. Unsubscribing now.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

So how would you personally interpret that. How would you sum it up in leyman's terms.

Ok, let me try to simplify the message a bit. God says to you, "Don't touch that hot stove dear child, or you will get burned." But you just totally ignore God's warning and instead you place your hand on the hot stove. Then you cry out "Why God, Why, why is my hand burning...Why God, Oh Why!!!!!????

 

[VioletReigns]

OK how about we answer Stephen Fry's first question. Why Bone cancer in children?

And I mean a real answer. Not god is mysterious, or its gods will etc. I mean a real answer.. Why?

I will answer your question, ColinCat, but answer me this first: What exactly are you doing for the benefit of children suffering with bone cancer? For that matter, what are you doing to help children everywhere in the world suffering from abuse?

I await your response.

 

[elf3]

Another non answer to the question.

Do you know why he allows it?

Actually any answer we give you will refuse because you have already said "give me an answer besides......" so therefore there is no answer you will accept because you refuse God.

 

[djness]

Believe or Burn!

I repeat... How about we answer Stephen Fry's first question. Why Bone cancer in children?

And I mean a real answer. Not god is mysterious, or its gods will etc. I mean a real answer.. Why?

Because of sin through Adam we all suffer. Why is that? I dunno. Why didn't just Adam suffer? I dunno. Why didn't just Satan suffer before he tempted Eve? I dunno? Why did it take two thousand years for Jesus to come? [h=1]Galatians 4:4-7English Standard Version (ESV)[/h]4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sentthe Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

Why do little children get cancer? Because sin. Because of Adams sin. Plenty of people in the bible asked these questions and still determined that God was good. Check psalm 73.

In my opinion it's ok as a christian to say we don't have all the answers. People here who tell you to just put your head in the sand and believe are afraid of their own lack of answers.

Asking questions is a primary faith builder. Maybe my answer doesn't satisfy you either but please understand I have asked your questions myself and still have faith.

 

[Human]

Ok, let me try to simplify the message a bit. God says to you, "Don't touch that hot stove dear child, or you will get burned." But you just totally ignore God's warning and instead you place your hand on the hot stove. Then you cry out "Why God, Why, why is my hand burning...Why God, Oh Why!!!!!????

Stoves don't have moralities, and we control stoves; they don't control us. If we are burned by a stove knowing a stove is hot, that is our genuine fault, because we have created the stove, we know it is hot, and we do not go near it, but from the biblical perspective, that element of choice goes out the window in regards to human fate; we dictate the boundaries within which the stove operates, thus we can avoid its heat freely, with absolute choice; we do not dictate the boundaries within which our nature allows us to operate, nor to we dictate the desire of God for us to transcend that nature.

There's a drastic difference between stupidly putting your hand on a hot stove that you created, and in God creating beings that he demands transcend their nature within boundaries that make that transcendence impossible.

 

[ColinCat]

There is no answer to refuse as of yet.

All I've had so far is people telling me IVE given them bone cancer, or what am I doing to prevent this bone cancer, or telling me I'm ignoring gods message and touching a hot stove... These are not answers.

The closest I've got to an answer is it happens because other people have sinned... Which brings us full circle, why would a loving, just god allow a child to have bone cancer? Your happy with the explanation that god does nothing to help the innocent child because other people have sinned?

If you don't know why, then please tell me you don't know why, Rather than avoiding the question all together.

 

[elf3]

I can only answer your question in an answer you will refuse.

Why do I have serious ostio and rheumatoid arthritis that has totally affected me in every way? Because in God's Sovereign Will for reasons I do not know I got them both. I do not question God why I have this but only "Lord how can you use this". It's called faith in Jesus Christ that I do not question God in my disabilities. Until you have that faith you will always question God.

 

[elf3]

No I cannot answer that question completely because God's way are not our ways. I don't understand but I also don't question God. All I can answer is....faith.

 

[ColinCat]

No I cannot answer that question completely because God's way are not our ways. I don't understand but I also don't question God. All I can answer is....faith.

That's fair enough, I can accept that.

Would you also accept its ridiculous to say that an atheist will never understand the answers to such questions.. When believers themselves don't understand?

 

[Tintin]

Im not saying you dont face hard questions.. You just avoid answering them...

Again... So because of other people's actions, god gives bone cancer to children?

I don't avoid the hard questions. I do my best to answer them, but I don't know everything. I'm not God. Or are you speaking Christians in general? Because, yes, as a whole, the Church could do a much better job of being willing to answer (or at least look for answers) to the difficult questions of life.

 

[elf3]

That's fair enough, I can accept that.

Would you also accept its ridiculous to say that an atheist will never understand the answers to such questions.. When believers themselves don't understand?

Yes it is safe to say that. But it is also safe to say that an atheist only refuses God because there is something they don't like that God allows or something they don't understand.

The difference is all in faith.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Stoves don't have moralities, and we control stoves; they don't control us. If we are burned by a stove knowing a stove is hot, that is our genuine fault, because we have created the stove, we know it is hot, and we do not go near it, but from the biblical perspective, that element of choice goes out the window in regards to human fate; we dictate the boundaries within which the stove operates, thus we can avoid its heat freely, with absolute choice; we do not dictate the boundaries within which our nature allows us to operate, nor to we dictate the desire of God for us to transcend that nature.

There's a drastic difference between stupidly putting your hand on a hot stove that you created, and in God creating beings that he demands transcend their nature within boundaries that make that transcendence impossible.

Some would call it foolishness to ignore God's commands, and go on in your rebellion against your Creator.

Romans 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[p_rehbein]

There is no answer to refuse as of yet.

All I've had so far is people telling me IVE given them bone cancer, or what am I doing to prevent this bone cancer, or telling me I'm ignoring gods message and touching a hot stove... These are not answers.

The closest I've got to an answer is it happens because other people have sinned... Which brings us full circle, why would a loving, just god allow a child to have bone cancer? Your happy with the explanation that god does nothing to help the innocent child because other people have sinned?

If you don't know why, then please tell me you don't know why, Rather than avoiding the question all together.

just stirring that pot ani'tcha wee little kitty..............goodness.........

 

[ColinCat]

I don't avoid the hard questions. I do my best to answer them, but I don't know everything. I'm not God. Or are you speaking Christians in general? Because, yes, as a whole, the Church could do a much better job of being willing to answer (or at least look for answers) to the difficult questions of life.

I respect your honesty Tintin, always have.

Is your stance "Look, I believe God exists and I am aware that some awful things happen in the world... But because I have faith I am sure they happen for a reason I am yet to understand"

I'm not looking to challenge or pick holes in that.. Just asking if that is your general feeling?

 

[ColinCat]

just stirring that pot ani'tcha wee little kitty..............goodness.........

No, not stirring anything. It wasn't even me who brought this to the forum. I was just trying to get an answer to a question that most people avoided answering.

What usually happens see, is someone asks a question then someone answers it and that's usually the end of it. But when some people skirt around the issue or answer a different question then the situation tends to escalate.

Don't have a go at me for trying to stir things up, aim it at the people who won't answer the question and therefore causing matters to escalate.

 

[Tintin]

I respect your honesty Tintin, always have.

Is your stance "Look, I believe God exists and I am aware that some awful things happen in the world... But because I have faith I am sure they happen for a reason I am yet to understand"

I'm not looking to challenge or pick holes in that.. Just asking if that is your general feeling?

Thanks, mate. Yes, that's my stance. I believe in Christ and that He is the one Truth. I believe I know my identity and purpose rests in Him etc. but I most definitely struggle to comprehend/understand many things in life. The difficult questions are just that, difficult for anyone - Christian or non. I have faith. Some parts don't make sense and some things can be well-reasoned.

 

[elf3]

ColinCat I'll admit I don't know all the answers. But I don't question "why" either. I know how you can have that peace with "not knowing why". Jesus Christ.