What is your view of Hell and the Lake of Fire? Is it Loving?

[Jason0047]

Brother Jason, please take no offense in this, but i am done talking this matter, you should be too. i have said what i was told, and you have said what you have learned, let us go on to better things, shall we.

If you do want to continue with our conversation then let us take one thing at a time. i have showed you verses which plainly teach the Lake of Fire is for ever and ever as it plainly says. your turn to reveal the verses that teach that it is NOT forever and ever. If you can't admit you are wrong in that, you will not admit you are wrong in others. So one thing at a time. waiting your verses that support that those who are cast into the Lake of Fire it is NOT forever and ever as it say it is.
Then we will continue with conversation.

God Bless and Love you brother. But when it seems i am saying the same things over and over again that is a sign it is time to move on, because what you are saying over and over again is not being received.

May the Lord Bless you and your family brother Jason

^i^

No, my friend. I have shown you verses that make it obvious. You and many others here have refused to address all of the verses that I posted that is against Eternal Torment. ECT only works if you take about 4 verses out of context (of which I explained already). The rest of Scripture is strongly against the false concept of Eternal Torment. Even basic morality is against ECT.

Anyways, if you don't want to discuss it, that is your choice, my friend.

I say all this so as to guide you to guide you to the truth in love on this topic.


May the Lord's love shine upon you greatly today.

 

[DiscipleDave]

No, my friend. I have shown you verses that make it obvious. You and many others here have refused to address all of the verses that I posted that is against Eternal Torment. ECT only works if you take about 4 verses out of context (of which I explained already). The rest of Scripture is strongly against the false concept of Eternal Torment. Even basic morality is against ECT.

Anyways, if you don't want to discuss it, that is your choice, my friend.

I say all this so as to guide you to guide you to the truth in love on this topic.


May the Lord's love shine upon you greatly today.

Thanks brother you too.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Wow, out of 30 Christians, only 4 people people believe what the Bible teaches about this topic!

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I am still learning concerning many topics...and this is also one of them.

I know those (the spirits, cause God is The Lord of Spirits) that blaspheme The Holy Spirit are not forgiven, and those who have the mark of the beast and worship his image.

Revelation 14:10-12King James Version (KJV)

10*The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11*And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

It is possible I do believe for a spirit capable of being forgiven to be temporarily in everlasting fire and torment.
The fire and torment are everlasting...but maybe forgivable spirits can be there temporarily.

If there is scripture to contradict this...please post it and the interpretation believed...cause I am still learning concerning this as well.

Ecclesiastes 7:4-6King James Version (KJV)

4*The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.

5*It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

6*For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity.

 

[RickyZ]

Wow, out of 30 Christians, only 4 people people believe what the Bible teaches about this topic!

Wow, out of 30 Christians, 4 translate "eternal", "forever and ever", and "everlasting" as annihilation.

 

[Blain]

Awww.... This topic again? This kind of discussion is not one where anyone gains anything it only creates chaos[Blain switches to attack mode must destroy thread]

 

[ColinCat]

Awww.... This topic again? This kind of discussion is not one where anyone gains anything it only creates chaos[Blain switches to attack mode must destroy thread]

Nooooo! Must..... Preserve..... Thread!...

 

[Jeff_56]

i have a balcony seat (seated with christ jesus in the heavenlies) and as yahweh's perfect plan includes

hell and the lake of fire, and as yahweh is perfect, and his love is perfect,

and as yahweh sends only those to hell or to the lake of fire who deserve it,

................................................................................................................(his justice is perfect also)............................
.................................................................................................................................................................................
................................................... COOL! YAHWEH ALWAYS GETS HIS WAY !!! ...............................................................
.................................................................................................................................................................................
.................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[Jeff_56]

not really a surprise. over 2,000,000,000 of the world's so-called 'christians' don't even know what salvation is.

Wow, out of 30 Christians, 4 translate "eternal", "forever and ever", and "everlasting" as annihilation.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Wow, out of 30 Christians, 4 translate "eternal", "forever and ever", and "everlasting" as annihilation.

This is a humorous post lol

 

[Jason0047]

Well, I heard a pastor once say that the best way to interpret the Bible is to let the Bible do the interpreting for you. What I am I talking about? Well, the Bible tells us that the phrase "smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever" is a metaphorical phrase from Isaiah 34:10 KJV which says that the smoke of Edom went up forever and ever. Yet is the city of Edom burning today? No, of course not. So we then realize that this phrase is speaking metaphorically.

In other words, the word "forever" (and it's related words) does not always mean forever in the Bible. “Forever” can have a temporal sense. For what do you make of the following verses below that say that "forever" (or it's related words) is not forever?

• In Gen.13:15 the land of Canaan is given to Israel “forever”.

• The Law is to be a statute “forever” (Ex.12:24; 27:21; 28:43).

• Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7) until -- God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ezek.16:53-55).

• Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.30:12) until -- the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer.30:17).

• The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic.1:9) until -- Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.16:53).

• Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph.2:9, Jer.25:27 until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer.49:6).

• An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever" until -- the tenth generation (Deut.23:3):

• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they "were shattered" Hab.3 3:6).

• The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Ex.40:15), that is-until-it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Heb.7:14-18).

• Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:13), until -- the Temple was destroyed.

• The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16)-until -- Paul states there remains "another day" of Sabbath rest for the people of God (Heb. 4:8,9).

• The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Lev.24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Cor. 3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).

• The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a "perpetual" until -- Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins.
Hell. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb. 8:6-13).

• God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever" until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17); Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.25:27) until -- the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez.29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer.49:39).

• "Moab is destroyed" (Jer.48:4, 42) until--the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer.48:47).

• Israel's judgment lasts "forever" until -- the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa.32:13-15).

• The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bond slave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), until -- his death.

• “Eternal” (Greek aionia, αιονια) is sometimes used of a limited (not endless) period of time. But the most common use is illustrated in II Cor.4:18 where it is contrasted with “temporal” and in Philemon 15 where it is contrasted with “for a while.”


Source Used:
http://www.apttoteach.org/Theology/E...f/911_Hell.pdf

 

[Jason0047]

In other words, the Old English from the 1600's that is used in the KJV (And has influenced many Modern Translations) is not the same as Modern English. For the word "forever" back in the 1600's could also be used in a temporal sense. However, words and their meanings sometimes change with the passage of time, though.

 

[Ukorin]

In other words, the Old English from the 1600's that is used in the KJV (And has influenced many Modern Translations) is not the same as Modern English. For the word "forever" back in the 1600's could also be used in a temporal sense. However, words and their meanings sometimes change with the passage of time, though.

I suppose salvation is not "forever" either...
Bad logic. Making excuses.
Don't touch topics if you just want to bend them to your will.

 

[Jason0047]

I suppose salvation is not "forever" either...
Bad logic. Making excuses.
Don't touch topics if you just want to bend them to your will.

I never said that the word "forever" cannot mean forever, too. Words can have multiple meanings in the Bible. Did you bother researching the list about in the Bible or are you just making smart remarks in disagreement? In other words, if you disagree, please point out which verses are wrong in my list above.

 

[sveinen]

"i think Gods lake Burning is a Blesser. Holy Revenge. Heavens Be Lifted."
"for mercies sake, we might consider 60000000000 years there several "eternities." "..well, as Christ Is Eternal."
version.
---
..who knows if a mouth would actually claim a hundred years was an eternity.
"we might pray the moth well had their tongues burnt away by such."
High Souvereign.
please bow for Christ.
The Cross.
dark horse scaling, anyone?

 

[michael56]

A minister once said:

Hell is a place where God's presence does not exist

 

[sveinen]

"i think Gods lake Burning is a Blesser. Holy Revenge. Heavens Be Lifted."
"for mercies sake, we might consider 60000000000 years there several "eternities." "..well, as Christ Is Eternal."
version.
---
..who knows if a mouth would actually claim a hundred years was an eternity.
"we might pray the moth well had their tongues burnt away by such."
High Souvereign.
please bow for Christ.
The Cross.
dark horse scaling, anyone?

moth burnt, not the mouth!
"i didn't like my five second encounter much."
a minute there can be an eternity before O.

 

[sc81]

isn't the word "eternal" used to describe eternal life also the same word to describe eternal punishment. Even if the claim that "eternal" is used sometimes in a limited length context, how can you be sure that in regards to hell it's limited. You're just speculating.

regardless it's not a nice place whatever goes on there, I really don't see the point of arguing about it. Jesus did tell the tale of lazarus and the rich man being in a place of heat and torment, so that is more conclusive than speculating on if forever means forever.

I think it's a slippery slope because you start getting in to territory where you are morally judging God as sending people to eternal punishment as wrong.

 

[ColinCat]

A minister once said:

Hell is a place where God's presence does not exist

But I thought god was omnipresent?

 

[Jason0047]

isn't the word "eternal" used to describe eternal life also the same word to describe eternal punishment. Even if the claim that "eternal" is used sometimes in a limited length context, how can you be sure that in regards to hell it's limited. You're just speculating.

First, I would like to challenge you to go over the list above I recently made on how the word "forever" and it's related words can also be used in a temporal sense is not the case in the Bible. Second, the word "forever" used in relation to the punishment in the afterlife is not the only misunderstanding, too. Do a study on "Eternal life" within the Scriptures. If you were to do so, you would discover that life can only be found in the Son. For Jesus said, I have come to give you life and to give it to you more abundantly. For the Scriptures say Christ alone has immortality. For he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life. In other words, "Eternal Life" is an exclusive property of God. It is not super power or a magical wish that is given to you. You have eternal life by abiding with God. To put it to you another way, if wicked people are going to be suffering in the Lake of Fire for all eternity, then God is going to have to abide in them to keep them alive for their eternal suffering. Sounds kind of twisted and sick if you ask me. Also, there are many words in the Bible about how the wicked will be destroyed, too (Of which I already mentioned before).

regardless it's not a nice place whatever goes on there, I really don't see the point of arguing about it. Jesus did tell the tale of lazarus and the rich man being in a place of heat and torment, so that is more conclusive than speculating on if forever means forever.

Actually, the story of Lazarus and the Richman does not teach Eternal Torment anywhere. Also, the Richman was not being tortured by being engulfed by any flame, either. He was tormented by the heat of the flame that was in front of him in the great gulf that was between him and Abraham. For if the Richman was engulfted by flames, wouldn't you think he would be screaming and crying out for buckets of water instead of just a little water on the tip of a finger? For if someone held someone down in a campfire, do you think that someone would just talk normally with everyone that might be watching? No. That would be silly.

I think it's a slippery slope because you start getting in to territory where you are morally judging God as sending people to eternal punishment as wrong.

No. Even the Gentiles have the moral law written upon their hearts. For the moral law is a law unto themselves and they will be judged by disobeying even the moral law within their own soceity in living without God. We know what is right and what is wrong. It is not a secret. It is not just to punish a person far beyond what the crime actually calls for. For surely you would not agree with a dictator punishing your family by extreme torture the rest of their lives to lying to that dictator when they visited his country. God's justice is fair and good and it can be explained. But Tradition is hard to break. So I understand why you struggle with this. I struggled with it for a long while, too.

Anyways, may God's blessings be upon you.
And please be well.