Jesus didn't come to separate the old and new covenants.

[michael56]

We uphold the commandments by love as Paul clearly shows in Romans 13, and our sins and lawless deeds are remembered no more when we repent and confess them to the Lord for forgiveness. Then He being just will cover those sins with His blood and cleanse us from all unrighteousness to never be used against us any more. Repentance/confession has to be done to receive that remission by the Lord as the bible clearly shows.
Future sins are not automatically forgiven before committed and repented/confessed of, the bible does not teach that they are. If it did then Apostle Paul's constant warning of sins to believers would be useless, and in the epistles he wrote to the Apostle Timothy he warned him of becoming impure again do to sin. And Paul warned also in his epistles that no impure person will inherit eternal life.
I do agree that my sins and lawless deeds are remembered no more as the scripture says, but the scriptures also show this is after repentance and confession is made...........

That's not how the new covenant is worded:

Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[SUP][c][/SUP][SUP]18 [/SUP]And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary

As you are aware, sacrifices for sin were made for those inside the covenant, not for those outside of it who wanted to enter it. Sacrifices were made for the forgiveness of sins, otherwise the covenant was not being kept to. Under the new covenant, those inside of it do not need to offer sacrifices for sins, for their sins(committed inside the covenant) are remembered no more unto condemnation. Hence:

But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb 9:26

 

[Grandpa]

I cringe when I see and hear those who dismiss the clear words of Christ...

You mean like this?

Why do you think the Ten Commandments were the ordinances against us? Dr. Robert Thiel does a much better job on this than I can...


What Does Colossians 2:14 Really Say?

It is of interest to note that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" is a Greek legal term that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--through Jesus the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"), not the law! "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them" (Heb 10:16).

The penalty was wiped out but not the law??? So it truly is ok to kill and to practice adultery and to covet because there is no longer a penalty for it???

It doesn't make much sense to have a law where there is no penalty for breaking it.

Matthew 5:17-18
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

If the penalty was taken from the law then I would say that law is destroyed. The Lord said He wasn't going to do that. Therefore the Law and its penalty is in full force.

Colossians 2:14 must mean something different than what you (and Robert Thiel) think.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

it had to be hid, otherwise satan would have done all he could to stop messiah from being killed.

That was the mystery from the beginning.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [mature]: yet not the wisdom of the world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom which God ordained [planned] before the world unto our glory: which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. . . 1 Co. 2:6-8

Why wouldn't he have gone ahead and crucified our Lord if he had known the secret? Because NOW each born again believer has the gift of holy spirit - God in Christ dwells in each of us, giving us power to defeat him enabling us to walk in the Spirit - We may not walk fully in the power God has bestowed upon us but it is there within that gift - we can and do overcome him daily in our walk.

Then look what it says in the same context: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, (Isaiah 64:4) -- the things God has prepared for those who love him -- these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. . . . v12b so that we may understand what God has freely given us.Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel. Ephesians 3:5,6
And this is because we have the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God dwelling in us via the gift of holy spirit. -
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory Col. 1:25-27 . . . . . All just made known through Paul for the church, the body of Christ.

The suffering servant is prophesied yes, But no one knew the suffering servant and Christ would be one.

So the Jewish community did not know the suffering servant was Christ? I believe they knew who he was - they just expected him to be the conquering King. If they didn't know who he was . . . why go after him like they did?

Abraham was justified by faith, Justification is not new to the NT, Abraham knew all about it, re read about it in genesis.

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness . . . .

I am surprised! There's not much that we disagree upon . . .

 

[just-me]

Hebrews 8:13 ESV
13In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Mark 2:22 KJV 2000
And no man puts new wine into old wineskins: else the new wine does burst the wineskins, and the wine is spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined: but new wine must be put into new wineskins.


Romans 10:3,4 KJV
3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Galatians 5:18 KJV
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

I've had this conversation before. The word covenant in Hebrews 8:13 is an added word when the scriptures direct our attention to the physical temple not the covenant of God's word. This is confirmed in Hebrews 8:1-6 and Hebrews 9:1. Further the wine of the old is God's word the wine skins are what holds the wine. The skin cannot be reused for the new, but the wine of the old is still good to consume. Christ didn't abolish the law but completed it. The "end to the law" is the finishing point of the chronological events established from the beginning. Misinterpreting scripture in this way indicates that God reconnoitered because His original and first words were fallible. That makes our Lord and Savior (Who created all things) less than perfect in the eyes of the unlearned.

The original Hebrews were written as follows.
"For if that first had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second." (Hebrews 8:7)

"In that he saith, A new he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

"Then verily the first had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary." (Hebrews 9:1)

It is clear by understanding this that the physical Temple ordinances were to old and ready to vanish at that time, but the Spiritual principles of God's Words still apply in all their fullness.

Ephesians 2:15-16
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; [SUP]
16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

The enmity was abolished, not God's word. Verse 15 should read as follows; "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, the law of commandments in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

It becomes clear then that the enmity is abolish through "the law of commandments in ordinances" fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

The veil was torn to represent access to the Holy of Holies for all mankind through Christ Jesus.

 

[john832]

You mean like this?



The penalty was wiped out but not the law??? So it truly is ok to kill and to practice adultery and to covet because there is no longer a penalty for it???

It doesn't make much sense to have a law where there is no penalty for breaking it.

Matthew 5:17-18
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

If the penalty was taken from the law then I would say that law is destroyed. The Lord said He wasn't going to do that. Therefore the Law and its penalty is in full force.

Colossians 2:14 must mean something different than what you (and Robert Thiel) think.

I am pretty sure I have no idea what you are talking about. I have never been a proponent of disobedience, in fact, I have been castigated for being a proponent of obedience. I am sorry but your comment makes no sense to me.

 

[Cee]

So, help me out Dcon, my friend, do you believe that something Paul said overrides something that Christ said?

The problem is you're using some Christ said out of context to compare something Paul said in context. Just because Christ said it doesn't mean we should force it to fit every Scripture. If you read what Christ is saying in context, which matches every other book in the Bible it is this: Love is the fulfillment of the law. The law by itself was inferior because it did not cause one to love one another. It merely showed their need for a Savior. And when He came, He set us free of sin, so that now we can freely love one another.

This is why Paul & Christ repeatedly say: the law is fulfilled in one thing: love one another as I have.

Let's make it a little simpler: Father's commandment: Believe on His Son.

We see Him approve of Christ between Moses (Law) and Elijah (Prophets) and He says LISTEN TO MY SON. He is the Invisible made Visible. Seeing Christ is seeing the Father.

Son's commandment: Love one another as He loved us.

We see this preached over and over again through the epistles. Love your wife as Christ loved the church, Ephesians: Knowing the Love of God is being filled with His fullness, John If you don't love your brother, you don't love God. Jesus: Sheep vs Goats separated by their love for one another, Freely give what you freely receive, we love Him because He loved us first, God so loved the world He GAVE, how much more should we give? and on and on and on.

In the OT you have God saying I don't desire sacrifice, I desire mercy. God gave the law not for Himself, but for man. Sabbath is also an example of this. Adam & Eve were given skins so they would come out of hiding from Him. Because they saw their nakedness.

The Law was given through Moses for the JEWS so they would be shut up in Sin. Once shut up in Sin, they would be lead to Christ who would set them free. No longer slaves to the law/sin, but now Sons and slaves of love/righteousness.

The GENTILES (Which is US) are held accountable the law on our heart (Romans 2)... not to the law given through Moses which was given to point to Christ. We didn't need the law to point us to Christ.

If you try to live by the law, you die by the law. If you miss one part, you are held accountable to all of it.

Paul infact was blameless to the law. But he was the chief sinner because he persecuted the church. I.E. He didn't love. And this is the fulfillment of the law. It's not just what you do that is wrong, but also what you don't do. Everytime you walk by someone without living in love. You missed it. The law was in place to lead the JEWS to Christ. And through the Jews we were grafted in.

Be a Berean and look with excitement (not skepticism) to see these things are true.

C.

 

[Delivery]

God, our Father in heaven, His name being holy is immutable....................

"He has never changed and can never change in the smallest measure. To change, He would need to go from better to worse or from worse to better. He cannot do either, for being perfect, He cannot become more perfect, and if He were to become less perfect He would be less than God."

Quote from "The Pursuit of God" written by A. W. Tozer

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. (Luke 4:4)

[SUP]6[/SUP] For I am the LORD, I change not; (Malachi 3:6)

You're right. God is perfect and doesn't change. God is Love. And He will always be Love [SUP]8[/SUP] He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

But His ways and means of doing things and how He deals with man do change. Throughout all of history since the beginning of time He has been bringing man through different stages of growth and teaching lessons as He goes along. He gave us the old testament of the law to show us what the righteousness of God was but to also teach us that we can never attain unto that righteousness by keeping the law and trying to be perfect in our own selves.

So He sent His only begotten Son into the world to save us from our sins and bestow upon us the righteousness that is by Faith in Jesus, so did away with that old covenant and instituted the new covenant of Grace, Love, and Mercy.

[SUP]19[/SUP] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

[SUP]22[/SUP] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23[/SUP] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25[/SUP] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. (So, as you can see here, the law was a teaching tool to keep people in line until the time of Christ so that we can be justified by Faith in Jesus and not by the works of the law. Once Jesus came we are no longer under that schoolmaster, we are not longer under the law. So, contrary to the title of your post, God did separate the old and new testaments.)


[SUP]7[/SUP] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[SUP]8[/SUP] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


[SUP]12[/SUP] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]13[/SUP] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.(Get it? He's basically saying that the old testament law died of old age. It served it's purpose and was eventually filed away in file Z. Not that we can't still learn lessons from it, but what it means is that we can't become righteous by keeping it, we can't be saved by keeping it, and, therefore, we are not under it anymore. We are saved by grace through Faith in Jesus, not by keeping the law.


[SUP]10[/SUP] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11[/SUP] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12[/SUP] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
[SUP]13[/SUP] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

[SUP]1[/SUP] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[just-me]

The problem is you're using some Christ said out of context to compare something Paul said in context. Just because Christ said it doesn't mean we should force it to fit every Scripture. If you read what Christ is saying in context, which matches every other book in the Bible it is this: Love is the fulfillment of the law. The law by itself was inferior because it did not cause one to love one another. It merely showed their need for a Savior. And when He came, He set us free of sin, so that now we can freely love one another.

I agree that the law shows us our transgressions because God gave it (because of His grace) to let us know where we were and are falling short so we would have opportunity to know what needs to be repented of. Jesus said (in short) 'if you love me obey my commandments' and we know He is the founder of the OT commandments because He created all things according to Colossians chapter one. Where I differ with you is that the law also tells us how to exact the love toward God and our neighbor. The following shows us the attributes of God's love and not our own opinion of love by human understanding that is minus these directions.

Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Deuteronomy 13:3Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Deuteronomy 30:6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

[SUP]Leviticus 19:11-18
11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

 

[just-me]

[SUP]6[/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; (Malachi 3:6)

You're right. God is perfect and doesn't change. God is Love. And He will always be Love [SUP]8[/SUP]He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

But His ways and means of doing things and how He deals with man do change. Throughout all of history since the beginning of time He has been bringing man through different stages of growth and teaching lessons as He goes along. He gave us the old testament of the law to show us what the righteousness of God was but to also teach us that we can never attain unto that righteousness by keeping the law and trying to be perfect in our own selves.

So He sent His only begotten Son into the world to save us from our sins and bestow upon us the righteousness that is by Faith in Jesus, so did away with that old covenant and instituted the new covenant of Grace, Love, and Mercy.

[SUP]19[/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

[SUP]22[/SUP] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23[/SUP] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25[/SUP] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. (So, as you can see here, the law was a teaching tool to keep people in line until the time of Christ so that we can be justified by Faith in Jesus and not by the works of the law. Once Jesus came we are no longer under that schoolmaster, we are not longer under the law. So, contrary to the title of your post, God did separate the old and new testaments.)


[SUP]7[/SUP] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[SUP]8[/SUP] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


[SUP]12[/SUP] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]13[/SUP] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.(Get it? He's basically saying that the old testament law died of old age. It served it's purpose and was eventually filed away in file Z. Not that we can't still learn lessons from it, but what it means is that we can't become righteous by keeping it, we can't be saved by keeping it, and, therefore, we are not under it anymore. We are saved by grace through Faith in Jesus, not by keeping the law.


[SUP]10[/SUP] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11[/SUP] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12[/SUP] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
[SUP]13[/SUP] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

[SUP]1[/SUP] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Good scripture you present but please see this post and see what you think.

post144

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I cringe when I see and hear those who dismiss the clear words of Christ...

Mat 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

IMO those verses are JESUS saying that the law will be fulfilled and there is no way anyone who breaks the law will make it into heaven and any man that fulfills the law will surely make it to heaven and we no that no man except JESUS could fulfill the law.

I know those verses came from the new testament but

IMO the word least and greatest are a way of saying no way or thats the only way.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

And i think this would have been said for those that were trusting in the law.
they would have realized that they could not do the law perfectly.

 

[just-me]

And i think this would have been said for those that were trusting in the law.
they would have realized that they could not do the law perfectly.

Is it not amazing (to say the least) that we discuss the same things over and over about the law and covenants not seeming to realize that this redundancy prohibits us to even begin, or get to the point of spiritually understanding the details within? I repeat Hebrews 6:1-3. Maybe God is not permitting this because of that.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit.

 

[Cee]

Here's how Scripture says we love one another: (Note it says you're not under the law, because it doesn't quite show you how to love one another, it shows you what not to do, but it's not the sins of commission, but the sins of omission.)

QUOTE = I agree that the law shows us our transgressions because God gave it (because of His grace) to let us know where we were and are falling short so we would have opportunity to know what needs to be repented of. Jesus said (in short) 'if you love me obey my commandments' and we know He is the founder of the OT commandments because He created all things according to Colossians chapter one. Where I differ with you is that the law also tells us how to exact the love toward God and our neighbor. The following shows us the attributes of God's love and not our own opinion of love by human understanding that is minus these directions. /QUOTE

Regardless thanks for replying to my post. There are other (probably a hundred Scriptures I can show how to love one another since the entire NT teaches on this) but here's a good overview:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[SUP][a][/SUP] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy, murders,[SUP][b][/SUP] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

C.

 

[just-me]

Here's how Scripture says we love one another: (Note it says you're not under the law, because it doesn't quite show you how to love one another, it shows you what not to do, but it's not the sins of commission, but the sins of omission.)

QUOTE = I agree that the law shows us our transgressions because God gave it (because of His grace) to let us know where we were and are falling short so we would have opportunity to know what needs to be repented of. Jesus said (in short) 'if you love me obey my commandments' and we know He is the founder of the OT commandments because He created all things according to Colossians chapter one. Where I differ with you is that the law also tells us how to exact the love toward God and our neighbor. The following shows us the attributes of God's love and not our own opinion of love by human understanding that is minus these directions. /QUOTE

Regardless thanks for replying to my post. There are other (probably a hundred Scriptures I can show how to love one another since the entire NT teaches on this) but here's a good overview:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[SUP][a][/SUP] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy, murders,[SUP][b][/SUP] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

C.

So I would also agree that the law, the teachings of Jesus, and the epistles all teach and instruct us how to love as God would desire. In other words because God is love, we live by His word, meaning it's all of His word not just certain parts that we pick and choose for our own agenda according to our own viewpoint. Thanks brother!

 

[Cee]

Yes all His word, but nothing that detracts from Jesus revealed. Because He is the Invisible made Visible. As I explained in my other post. The revelation of God culminated in Jesus. He is the Truth, Way, and Life.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

1 Timothy 1:5-7
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Paul isn't the source of confusion.

You are absolutely right, it is people misquoting him that is causing the confusion...

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Ok. Considering...

Galatians 4:4-7
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

So what was finished in your eyes? The law? So the unchangeable God changed according to you. That makes perfect sense and we should all be grateful for you pointing out that the Deity warning us that He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow indeed did change.

 

[michael56]

Paul infact was blameless to the law. But he was the chief sinner because he persecuted the church. I.E. He didn't love. And this is the fulfillment of the law. It's not just what you do that is wrong, but also what you don't do. Everytime you walk by someone without living in love. You missed it. The law was in place to lead the JEWS to Christ. And through the Jews we were grafted in.

Be a Berean and look with excitement (not skepticism) to see these things are true.

C.

Paul wasn't blameless to the law, he was blameless to the legalistic law (Rom 7:7-11)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

double post. delete

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [mature]: yet not the wisdom of the world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom which God ordained [planned] before the world unto our glory: which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. . . 1 Co. 2:6-8

Why wouldn't he have gone ahead and crucified our Lord if he had known the secret? Because NOW each born again believer has the gift of holy spirit - God in Christ dwells in each of us, giving us power to defeat him enabling us to walk in the Spirit - We may not walk fully in the power God has bestowed upon us but it is there within that gift - we can and do overcome him daily in our walk.

Then look what it says in the same context: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, (Isaiah 64:4) -- the things God has prepared for those who love him -- these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. . . . v12b so that we may understand what God has freely given us.Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel. Ephesians 3:5,6
And this is because we have the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God dwelling in us via the gift of holy spirit. -
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory Col. 1:25-27 . . . . . All just made known through Paul for the church, the body of Christ.
So the Jewish community did not know the suffering servant was Christ? I believe they knew who he was - they just expected him to be the conquering King. If they didn't know who he was . . . why go after him like they did?

Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness . . . .

I am surprised! There's not much that we disagree upon . . .

They did not even realise the son of man was the suffering servant.

Jesus kept saying the son of man must die, and be risen back up. they denied it and even fought him concerning it.

it was not until after his ressurection that he opened their eyes, and they understood it.