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Seriously dude? If, as you say, it's just a POLL, care to explain the lengthy comments that followed the OP? I can understand why you do not want to admit you were not sincere in the intent of the OP, but it does puzzle me that you do not have the conviction of your beliefs to be honest about them.
The false actions here are yours...........and don't even go to "slanderous" given comments #12 and #13. You aren't fooling everyone..........goodness
BE HONEST IN YOUR BELIEFS.............or stay on the sidelines...........you are not doing anyone who truly believes in Salvation through Grace any good
The false actions here are yours...........and don't even go to "slanderous" given comments #12 and #13. You aren't fooling everyone..........goodness
BE HONEST IN YOUR BELIEFS.............or stay on the sidelines...........you are not doing anyone who truly believes in Salvation through Grace any good
J
No. It's not the disagreeing, it is the lame attack dog, evil false allegations modus operandi of the troll that's very apparent. Here somebody has said a whole series of things untrue, of no nexus with even reality. I have no use for it, it's all over the web, and it's a meaningless bore. I'm sorry there are so many people that need to constantly bicker and crave attention, but they're gratuitously nasty, stupid people who I'd rather not know, frankly. But it's a free country, and you all can bicker until the cows come home over nothing, just don't expect everybody's on-board with mental sociopathy and dogs barking at the wind.
A
Well, someone has to say it. I'm the one who voted No. Nothing personal, but I figure most folks have to look hard for it to show. I've met very nice people who aren't Christians in my life. And then there are some who are saved, but they backslide quickly, so it doesn't show. And then there are those who are saved, but aren't taught what to do next, so it looks messy until God comes along and yanks, like he did to Jonah. Also those who are saved, but then a huge tragedy hits (or two or five), it's hard to deal with it, and for all outward appearances it looks like they aren't handling it "just right."
Trusting God and salvation isn't a cookie-cutter experience. It rarely looks just-right.
Trusting God and salvation isn't a cookie-cutter experience. It rarely looks just-right.
I believe Samson and Solomon were saved. Even the thief on the cross was saved, too. However, God does not call us to live like the devil and then hope to repent in the end at the last second. Yes, there are those who repented in the end of their lives and were saved. This shows God is sovereign and knows a person's hearts and futures. But this does not change the fact that God (Christ) does not call and desire His people to walk in holiness and his good ways. That does not mean some will fall away from the faith due to persecution and the cares and the riches of this life (without repenting before they die). The Scriptures say, without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. That's a fact of Scripture. If a believer expects to outsmart God and they desire to repent in the end like a Samson and or a Solomon, then they are not going to make it. One has to have a pure heart before God and be open and honest before the Lord. Yes, you may not see it on the outside in all cases who is saved and who is not saved, but nobody can live in unrepentant sin and be saved. It doesn't work like that. So no. Nothing has changed. A believer has to live holy and follow the commands of Jesus Christ. Yes, God's grace is there for believers if they sin, but we have to realize that those that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. In time, the true born again believer will grow and learn their lesson. Sometimes it will be at the end of their life and other times it is not. But holiness is not an option of a mark of being a true believer.
Holiness is the end result and goal for all true believers. It's not an option if one is truly of the Kingdom of God. For God is good. He is not evil. Meaning, evil people who like their sin more than God will not be in Heaven.
Holiness is the end result and goal for all true believers. It's not an option if one is truly of the Kingdom of God. For God is good. He is not evil. Meaning, evil people who like their sin more than God will not be in Heaven.
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J
No problem, and thank you for your No vote. The statement was more intended as a general statement going to bottom line salvation in the gospel, whereas your extending it into a more detailed real world experience, with dynamics and that we're all imperfect, I would agree there's no cookie cutter, in that. God deals with individuals. Technically, I wouldn't call that a No vote, the basic intent more wondering how many people believe God saves those who exhibit righteousness first, or one gets initial grace, then must start earning salvation, maintaining some checklist, sabbath keeping, feasts, be some denomination with unique requirements and the like, some saying things to indicate the statement, to them, is false. (There are people making such assertions here and there.) So, the poll was more meant one believes the basic principles or not, as opposed to people fail to always walk in the light of Christ, this another discussion I hadn't anticipated, but I do understand what you're saying. On the other hand, on that subject, the cookie cutter is, must be, that to some real degree, a person is led by the Holy Spirit. It would be another matter if you're saying a person can cop to cheap grace, never really repenting, remain the same old. unGodly jerk. The statement isn't touching easy believism, which I'd add that I don't believe such genuine faith. A person does become a new creature in Christ, or not. That's scriptural.
J
I've come to more and more realized, have probably mentioned this before, that either the Holy Spirit is a failure, or some people don't have it. A very new believer, some things are understandable, but one who is not growing in their sanctification, and some of these doctrines of demons, lies, one sees, I really fear for many, because the Holy Spirit does not fail to lead into truth. There are those whose socks just don't match!
If a person is saved he/she hopes they walk as Jesus walked. They hope they keep the commandments.
Under careful scrutiny and honesty I think we can see that believers don't walk perfectly as the Lord did.
So I suppose the answer to the poll is it depends on what standard you are looking at it by. If it is by the Perfect standard of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ then we can easily vote no.
If it is by a relaxed standard where we are judging each other by each other then maybe, pridefully, yes.
Under careful scrutiny and honesty I think we can see that believers don't walk perfectly as the Lord did.
So I suppose the answer to the poll is it depends on what standard you are looking at it by. If it is by the Perfect standard of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ then we can easily vote no.
If it is by a relaxed standard where we are judging each other by each other then maybe, pridefully, yes.
J
Not sure where in "but if we are saved, these things will be present in our lives" there's any notion of a perfect standard expressed. Just the notion of presence even implies simply evidence of Holy Spirit leading, doesn't it? It seems perfection is being read into this that's not there, just saying something is present not even expressing any level of how much. Again, it was more meant agreement or not with the general principles expressed, and only that, though if folks want to talk about perfection, things theoretical, have at it. But this wasn't in the scope of what was meant as a simple poll, of very general principles, agree or not. In other words a No, because keeping the commandments necessary to save, just high level things, not reading anything more into the statement. It wasn't my intent to broaden anything into a contentious discussion, but don't mind how people use the thread, just I'd rather not go places unintended.
I don't understand why you say "If it is by a relaxed standard where we are judging each other by each other then maybe, pridefully, yes". Why does it have to be pride and judgment that motivate us trying to live in a pleasing way towards the Father? I say it's only because of His power that I am even able to try to do the right thing. I say it was the regenerating POWER of the Holy Spirit that radically changed me overnight is miraculous ways only God could have done.
I agree with this "the answer to the poll is it depends on what standard you are looking at it by", only I would say by what perspective you look at it in. All I can say is it is gratitude that I personally WANT to try to be as much like our Lord as possible, and know that I will fall pitifully short, but at the same time will not stop me from trying, not in fear at all. Also and most importantly, all glory and credit to Him that lives within me, because I would have never even cared to live this way as the "old man".
I agree with this "the answer to the poll is it depends on what standard you are looking at it by", only I would say by what perspective you look at it in. All I can say is it is gratitude that I personally WANT to try to be as much like our Lord as possible, and know that I will fall pitifully short, but at the same time will not stop me from trying, not in fear at all. Also and most importantly, all glory and credit to Him that lives within me, because I would have never even cared to live this way as the "old man".