Musical Instruments

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Dec 12, 2013
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#81
Psalms is part of the OT law that Christ took out of the way, Col 2:14 making that whole law inactive, of no effect. The OT law cannot justify use of IM no more than it can justify polygamy or slavery. If you hold David up as justification for IM then whose to stop those that hold David up for having multiple wives and concubines. Those slave owners back during and before the Civil used the OT to justify slavery.




I will also add to say that the Psalms promoted the bolded above is blasphemous, contrary to the truth of the inspired songs sung in way of worship and you will pay for making such a comparison!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#82
yes, i've been lied to.
how about some truth, instead?

He stationed the Levites in the temple of the LORD with cymbals, harps and lyres in the way prescribed by David and Gad the king's seer and Nathan the prophet; this was commanded by the LORD through his prophets.
(2 Chronicles 29:25)
Can you believe he used the Psalms to justify slavery and polygamy! Tells me straight up that he doesn't know anything about the bible.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#83
Can you believe he used the Psalms to justify slavery and polygamy! Tells me straight up that he doesn't know anything about the bible.

why, if dead to the world, submit yourself to human ordinances - "touch not, taste not, handle not" ?
what was made clean by the spirit, perfected by the flesh?

Paul called it "will worship" & "vain deceit"

amazingly ironic to me how he talks about 'law being taken away' as if it were a justification to bind everyone with even heavier chains, that were never imposed. those chains he thinks hold him down are already crumbled to dust! by the very cause he uses to argue them into existence!

it is like Christ said though, in order to see the kingdom, one has to be born again.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#84
"if a fish could talk"

lol, i wanted to post in that thread, but i thought .. nah..
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#86
instrumental music.

to Campbellites, any sound except the human voice.

* also ironic how they make a show of being humble with these purely human teachings, but those same fallacies elevate the human voice above every sound.

kinda vain, IMHO.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#87
1. You should lay off the juice as your view in no way, shape or form refutes my biblically correct position.
2. It is not wrong to be circumcised...the wrongness came when it was tied to salvation as part of salvation
3. It is not wrong to use instruments to praise God as from the O.T. to the Book of Revelation to Heaven has musical instruments to praise God.
4. Your position is a doctrinal stance by a heretical stance started by a man and is promoted by a religion that binds the hands of men behind their backs to dogma that is not biblical.
5. The consistent use of instruments being seen in Revelation and in Heaven has no bearing on going back to the LAW and circumcision.....

You can twist until your blue in the face and the more you speak the more foolish you look.......get it through your head that you are pushing a man made dogma and not a biblical truth......it will do you some good to recognize your error!

I never said it was wrong to be circumcised. Christians have not been commanded to be circumcised, Christian have not been commanded NOT to be circumcised, circumcision is nothing. So how could it go from "nothing" (1 Cor 7:19) to being an erroneous practice? By making it a religious practice goes above what is written. Likewise, Christians have not been commanded to use IM and have not been commanded NOT to use IM yet by making it a religious practice goes beyond what is written. Making IM is erroneous religious practice as circumcision was in Acts 15 and Galatian epistle


There's not a "dogma" for Christians to use IM for such a 'dogma' has NEVER existed.

The book of Revelation is highly figurative, (Rev 1:1) and the harps are just as figurative as the vials full of prayers, Rev 5:8
 
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Mar 12, 2014
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#88
The Psalms were not part of the LAW that was taken out of the way.....the LAW was found in the first 5 books of the bible...the PSALMS ARE inspired songs of WORSHIP.....more flawed logic from your Alexander Campbellite dogma!

Jesus and Paul call Psalms "law". The entire OT can be called "law".
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#89
I never said it was wrong to be circumcised. Christians have not been commanded to be circumcised, Christian have not been commanded NOT to be circumcised, circumcision is nothing. So how could it go from "nothing" (1 Cor 7:19) to being an erroneous practice? By making it a religious practice goes above what is written. Likewise, Christians have not been commanded to use IM and have not been commanded NOT to use IM yet by making it a religious practice goes beyond what is written. Making IM is erroneous religious practice as circumcision was in Acts 15 and Galatian epistle


There's not a "dogma" for Christians to use IM for such a 'dogma' has NEVER existed.

The book of Revelation is highly figurative, (Rev 1:1) and the harps are just as figurative as the vials full of prayers, Rev 5:8
Keep telling yourself that rigmarole and believing your COC dogma.....like I said...your reasoning is flawed and to say the harps are figurative is another fallacy on your part used to reject truth which contradicts your dogma
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#90
yes, i've been lied to.
how about some truth, instead?

He stationed the Levites in the temple of the LORD with cymbals, harps and lyres in the way prescribed by David and Gad the king's seer and Nathan the prophet; this was commanded by the LORD through his prophets.
(2 Chronicles 29:25)

Two commands in this verse, one command of the Lord was the command the Levites in the temple (Deut 10:8) and the other command was David that prescribed the instruments. (1 Chron 15:16; 23;5; Ezra 3:10).

The commands in 2 Chron 29:25 was given to Israel not to NT Christians and were all taken out of the way by Christ on His cross, Col 2:14.

Then there is the condemnation of Israel using IM "like David" Amos 6:1-5.

Lastly 2 Chron 29:28 "And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished."

While the IM was being played sacrifices were being burnt. Are you following all the OT law (Gal 5:3) or cherry picking out what you like disregarding what you do not like?

AS I already said, none of this applies to nor is binding upon NT Christians for Christ took it all out of the way Col 2:14. No reason for Christ to have to die to take the OT out of the way if one can still go back to that OT law for justification for a particular practice as circumcision or IM.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#91
[/B][/U]I will also add to say that the Psalms promoted the bolded above is blasphemous, contrary to the truth of the inspired songs sung in way of worship and you will pay for making such a comparison!

Those that try to run back to the OT law and use David to seek justification for using IM create this problem for themselves. Since you do not get to make the rules for everyone else, that means if you can go back to the OT law/David to justify IM then anyone can go back to that law to justify polygamy and slavery. Again, you do not get to pick and choose for everyone else on what they can or cannot go back to the OT law to try and justify. If you can use the OT to justify IM then another has as much right to use that same OT law to justify polygamy, concubines, slavery, etc.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#92
Can you believe he used the Psalms to justify slavery and polygamy! Tells me straight up that he doesn't know anything about the bible.
If those on this forum can use the OT to try and justify IM, then what is to stop others from using that same law to justify polygamy, slavery, etc?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#93

why, if dead to the world, submit yourself to human ordinances - "touch not, taste not, handle not" ?
what was made clean by the spirit, perfected by the flesh?

Paul called it "will worship" & "vain deceit"

amazingly ironic to me how he talks about 'law being taken away' as if it were a justification to bind everyone with even heavier chains, that were never imposed. those chains he thinks hold him down are already crumbled to dust! by the very cause he uses to argue them into existence!

it is like Christ said though, in order to see the kingdom, one has to be born again.

WE VIne defines will worhsip as "voluntarily adopted worship, whether unbidden or forbidden” (1952, 236)."

In the NT, circumcision was neither specifically bidden or forbidden but making it a NT religious practice was wrong. The same is true with IM.

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1544-pauls-condemnation-of-will-worship
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#94
Those that try to run back to the OT law and use David to seek justification for using IM create this problem for themselves. Since you do not get to make the rules for everyone else, that means if you can go back to the OT law/David to justify IM then anyone can go back to that law to justify polygamy and slavery. Again, you do not get to pick and choose for everyone else on what they can or cannot go back to the OT law to try and justify. If you can use the OT to justify IM then another has as much right to use that same OT law to justify polygamy, concubines, slavery, etc.
and no more shrimp! Oh the humanity!
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#95
Keep telling yourself that rigmarole and believing your COC dogma.....like I said...your reasoning is flawed and to say the harps are figurative is another fallacy on your part used to reject truth which contradicts your dogma
You have not refuted the fact if you can go above what is written and use IM then there was nothing wrong with those Judiazers in the first going above what is written in making circumcision a religious practicing. There is NO DIFFERENCE in what you are doing and what those Judiazers were doing.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#96
and no more shrimp! Oh the humanity!
True. When some at Galatia had went back to the OT to make circumcision a religious practice, Paul told them they were a debtor the the WHOLE law, Gal 5:3. If one goes back to the OT to make using IM a religious practice they make themselves debtor to that WHOLE law.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#97
If those on this forum can use the OT to try and justify IM, then what is to stop others from using that same law to justify polygamy, slavery, etc?
Do you actually believe what comes out of your mouth.....talk about more fallacy and heretical dogma......the PSALMS ARE INSPIRED SONGS BY GOD....your stance fails the smell test and falls way short of biblical doctrine......!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#98
You have not refuted the fact if you can go above what is written and use IM then there was nothing wrong with those Judiazers in the first going above what is written in making circumcision a religious practicing. There is NO DIFFERENCE in what you are doing and what those Judiazers were doing.
Yeah there is...your to blinded by your heretical dogma to see the truth.......!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#99
True. When some at Galatia had went back to the OT to make circumcision a religious practice, Paul told them they were a debtor the the WHOLE law, Gal 5:3. If one goes back to the OT to make using IM a religious practice they make themselves debtor to that WHOLE law.
More red herrings. One is a debtor to the law if one is using the law for righteousness. The Law is unchanged in that the law could never impute righteousness only the knowledge of sin.

Musical instruments are not prohibited nor are they required in the NT church. One is at liberty to use or not to use instruments in worship.

The western world largely practices circumcision not for religious reasons but for reasons pertaining to health.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Do you actually believe what comes out of your mouth.....talk about more fallacy and heretical dogma......the PSALMS ARE INSPIRED SONGS BY GOD....your stance fails the smell test and falls way short of biblical doctrine......!

Who said anything about Psalms not being inspired?

What YOU do not understand is the implication that if you can go back to the OT to justify IM then there is nothing to stop others from going back to that same OT to justify polygamy and slavery. It is not written anywhere that dcontroversial alone can go back to the OT and justify what he likes yet others cannot.