Musical Instruments

[SeaBass]

Yeah there is...your to blinded by your heretical dogma to see the truth.......!

Where would those Pharisees get the idea that something as circumcision saves/puts one in a covenant relationship with God? The OT law. So they went back to the OT laws on circumcision to justify trying to make circumcision a NT religious practice.

You TOO are going back to that same OT law to justify making IM a NT religious practice.


I see no difference here at all.

 

[SeaBass]

More red herrings. One is a debtor to the law if one is using the law for righteousness. The Law is unchanged in that the law could never impute righteousness only the knowledge of sin.

Musical instruments are not prohibited nor are they required in the NT church. One is at liberty to use or not to use instruments in worship.

The western world largely practices circumcision not for religious reasons but for reasons pertaining to health.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Paul's argument is if one goes back to the OT law then he is required to keep all that law, not just pick and choose.

If one buys a car to drive on public roadways, then he is obligated to keep all the laws of the road not just pick one law he likes while ignoring all other laws of the road.

Those Jews that actually lived under that OT law could not cherry pick out just one law to keep but were obligated to all of it. So how can anyone today think they can just cherry pick from that law when those Jews that lived under it could not even do that?

 

[posthuman]

Two commands in this verse, one command of the Lord was the command the Levites in the temple (Deut 10:8) and the other command was David that prescribed the instruments. (1 Chron 15:16; 23;5; Ezra 3:10).

The commands in 2 Chron 29:25 was given to Israel not to NT Christians and were all taken out of the way by Christ on His cross, Col 2:14.

Then there is the condemnation of Israel using IM "like David" Amos 6:1-5.

Lastly 2 Chron 29:28 "And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished."

While the IM was being played sacrifices were being burnt. Are you following all the OT law (Gal 5:3) or cherry picking out what you like disregarding what you do not like?

AS I already said, none of this applies to nor is binding upon NT Christians for Christ took it all out of the way Col 2:14. No reason for Christ to have to die to take the OT out of the way if one can still go back to that OT law for justification for a particular practice as circumcision or IM.

you are ducking the fact that you claim instrumental music is a corruption introduced by men, but this bit of the scripture (2 Chronicles 29:25) clearly says it was commanded by God through His prophets.

and ducking the fact that you said "the Bible must be the ultimate authority" -- and the Bible both encourages worshiping with music and clearly states that the ordination of Levite musicians in the temple is from God.

so mr. Bass, there you have it. the Bible says IM is good. vain men say it is corruption. who will you believe?

we're done here.

 

[notuptome]

Paul's argument is if one goes back to the OT law then he is required to keep all that law, not just pick and choose.

If one buys a car to drive on public roadways, then he is obligated to keep all the laws of the road not just pick one law he likes while ignoring all other laws of the road.

Those Jews that actually lived under that OT law could not cherry pick out just one law to keep but were obligated to all of it. So how can anyone today think they can just cherry pick from that law when those Jews that lived under it could not even do that?

You ignore the purpose of the law. The law demonstrated that men were sinners and needed to be forgiven for their sin. Christ did not remove the law Christ fulfilled the law.

In any case we are at liberty to use instruments in worship if we use them to honor the Lord and not to fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I suggest that you break the traffic laws every time you drive your car. You may not get caught every time but you break the laws often and perhaps one day that may cause great harm but by Gods mercy you have escaped.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Shae]

Let me ask this.. what is the definition of psalm? Now continue..
Now what is the Greek psalm translated to? Ahh.. mind blowing!
Greek Lexicon :: G5568 (KJV)

 

[SeaBass]

you are ducking the fact that you claim instrumental music is a corruption introduced by men, but this bit of the scripture (2 Chronicles 29:25) clearly says it was commanded by God through His prophets.

and ducking the fact that you said "the Bible must be the ultimate authority" -- and the Bible both encourages worshiping with music and clearly states that the ordination of Levite musicians in the temple is from God.

so mr. Bass, there you have it. the Bible says IM is good. vain men say it is corruption. who will you believe?

we're done here.

It is a corruption of man. Go look at secular history and you will find Christ's church did not use IM that IM was introduced by man a few centuries later after the church began.

You have failed to show where the NT Christian has been told to use IM in worship to God.

 

[SeaBass]

You ignore the purpose of the law. The law demonstrated that men were sinners and needed to be forgiven for their sin. Christ did not remove the law Christ fulfilled the law.

In any case we are at liberty to use instruments in worship if we use them to honor the Lord and not to fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I suggest that you break the traffic laws every time you drive your car. You may not get caught every time but you break the laws often and perhaps one day that may cause great harm but by Gods mercy you have escaped.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I was not referring to the purpose of the OT law, but that fact one must keep the WHOLE law, God did not, does not allow cherry picking from His laws.

NO verse says the Christian is at liberty to worship God has he pleases.

 

[SeaBass]

Let me ask this.. what is the definition of psalm? Now continue..
Now what is the Greek psalm translated to? Ahh.. mind blowing!
Greek Lexicon :: G5568 (KJV)

Hi,

In the classical Greek psallo did carry the idea of twanging or plucking but by the time of the first century in Kone Greek it carried the idea of just singing.

1. W.E. Vine writes:
   
   
   “The word psallo originally meant to play a stringed instrument with the fingers, or to sing with the accompaniment of a harp. Later, however, and in the New Testament, it came to signify simply to praise without the accompaniment of an instrument” (First Corinthians, p. 191).​

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1142-ephesians-5-19-making-melody



2) the object that was to be plucked or twanged went with the word psallo. If psallo still means to pluck/twang the only object said to be pluck/twanged is the human heart, Eph 5:19, not a musical instrument.

1. If psallo did retain some association with “plucking” in the first century, the instrument would have to be supplied by the context. F.F. Bruce, not an opponent of the instrument in worship, admits that “the melody with which [Paul] is principally concerned is the melody of the heart, which accompanies the vocal singing” (Questions Answered, p. 107). The heart is the spiritual instrument of this context; no mechanical instrument is implied. https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1142-ephesians-5-19-making-melody

3) if psallo still means pluck/twang then all would have to play an instrument for the command in Eph 5:18,19 is to all Christians not just a soloist playing a piano or guitar or a small group playing instruments.

 

[posthuman]

"do not call unclean what God has declared clean" ​

 

[dcontroversal]

It is a corruption of man. Go look at secular history and you will find Christ's church did not use IM that IM was introduced by man a few centuries later after the church began.

You have failed to show where the NT Christian has been told to use IM in worship to God.

BLAH BLAH BLAH.......have you not figured out yet that you are wrong, your views are wrong and the bible and it's principles are clear....wake up to the truth and quit standing on lies and religious dogma SEA.....you know the Pharisees attributed the work of Christ to the power of the devil....you are attributing the right of God and what is acceptable unto God to the corruption of men....same principle...you blaspheme the spirit and the word of God by your action...as Posthuman pointed out the acceptability to us instruments in the way of worship has been decreed and accepted of God......

Your religion is vain and ties the hands of men behind their backs worse that the Pharisees did......WAKE UP!

 

[dcontroversal]

"do not call unclean what God has declared clean" ​

Amen to that........now he changes the Greek words and their meanings based upon another man's perception not realizing that the Koine Greek is a dead language and does not change just because some man thinks it changes......and for the record...Ephesians 5 uses subordinate clauses to show what one is like when CONTINUALLY FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT and is not INDICATIVE of assembly capacity worship.......

 

[notuptome]

I was not referring to the purpose of the OT law, but that fact one must keep the WHOLE law, God did not, does not allow cherry picking from His laws.

NO verse says the Christian is at liberty to worship God has he pleases.

1 Cor 8:9 ..take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to then who are weak.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mwc68]

It is a corruption of man. Go look at secular history and you will find Christ's church did not use IM that IM was introduced by man a few centuries later after the church began.

You have failed to show where the NT Christian has been told to use IM in worship to God.

the NT doesn't require it and imo, there is nothing wrong with it. Very beautiful Sacred music had been written for church through the ages

 

[dcontroversal]

Where would those Pharisees get the idea that something as circumcision saves/puts one in a covenant relationship with God? The OT law. So they went back to the OT laws on circumcision to justify trying to make circumcision a NT religious practice.

You TOO are going back to that same OT law to justify making IM a NT religious practice.


I see no difference here at all.

That's what happens when you walk in the darkness of false doctrine......you wont see the truth that is given!

 

[FriendlyGuitarist]

My worship band at church is quite 'heavy' with lot's of energetic music. Even a lot of older people like it. We also have other worship bands that play different styles so there is something for everyone. I don't believe that saying that the guitar and drums are from the devil. Like William Booth said a long time ago... 'why should the devil have all the good music?'

 

[presidente]

The very earliest Christians worshipped in the temple where there was instrumental music. The use of instruments in the temple was taught in the Psalms.

 

[Miri]

If some people want instruments that's fine. If some people don't then that's fine
also. I don't understand why it need be such an issue.

The main issue is do we worship God or man. Do we worship the creator or do we
worship the musician and the singer. I've seen plenty of that around in my time.

x

 

[Miri]

If some people want instruments that's fine. If some people
don't then that's fine
also. I don't understand why it need be such an issue.

The main issue is do we worship God or man. Do we worship the creator or do we
worship the musician and the singer. I've seen plenty of that around in my time.

x

Just to to add to this, I played the saxophone in the worship team for 10 years.
It surprised me that people would sometimes try to gain my acquaintance simply
because I was in the worship team. Sometimes if I joined a small group in the
church, the leader would go out of their way to emphasise they had a member of the
worship team in their group.

But the singers were also treated like this by some people, probably more so!

The main thing is are we there to worship God or man. If God then it matters not
whether MI are used or not.

 

[secularhermit]

Have you ever read the Law? Just check out how he wanted his tabernacle. I think you're wrong. God is a dictator. He's got "right" going for him though. And that love, mercy, long-suffering is all very helpful to us. Biggest help -- Jesus. Who took on the law and won.

I used to think that way but, if He was, demons and humans wereutterly killed the moment they rebelled against His sovereign willboth, in heavens and earth. And, of course, humankind seem to have asecond time to convert and to repent. The moment I read this “[FONT=Palatino Linotype, serif]Exo4:24-26 One night while Moses was in camp, [/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype, serif]theLORD was about to kill him[/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype, serif].But Zipporah circumcised her son with a flint knife. She touched hislegs with the skin she had cut off and said, "My dear son, thisblood will protect you." So the LORD did not harm Moses. ThenZipporah said, "[/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype, serif]Yes,my dear, you are safe because of this circumcision.[/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype, serif]"[/FONT]”I saw an intuitive woman who loved her husband a lot and, at the sametime, a dictator who longed to kill those He wasn´t pleased withbut, it took me sometime to acknowledge His has enough rightsto do what pleases Him, yet He is not doing it all that way,particularly when I see He permitted His own Son to live (and die) insuch a way I would fight against to kill the enemies of my own sonswith the sword of my arms and selfish thoughts.

 

[secularhermit]

My worship band at church is quite 'heavy' with lot's of energetic music. Even a lot of older people like it. We also have other worship bands that play different styles so there is something for everyone. I don't believe that saying that the guitar and drums are from the devil. Like William Booth said a long time ago... 'why should the devil have all the good music?'

As MIRI said below, the moment "we" start to worship THE PLAYERS, to worship their personalism and egos, we ran far from God to idolize ppl, particularly when we say: "My church" or "my people" ignoring we surrendered to God, by Jesus, as king.