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Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#322
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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#322
Jason0047 said:
Yes, of course Paul is talking about Christians in Galatians 5:24. Who else would he be talking about?

As for the timing of when they crucified the affections and lusts: Well, Paul does not say when they crucified the affections and lusts. Paul just states a present fact reality. They that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. He is simply stating a truth. So yes. There are believers who have done so because Paul says so. For if Paul did not believe that no person could ever crucify the affections and lusts then he would not have said what he did in Galatians 5:24.
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I see. so, do only those who have crucified the affections and lusts, and so never sin again, are they the only ones who get to go to heaven? or do non-crucifiers go too?
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#323
Dec 26, 2014
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#323
Galahad said:
Why? Why? Why? Even when the subject of the thread is love, there's a trailing off from it. But why? How? Makes me think of a thunder storm.
Blue sky in the morning.
By noon there's a fading of that blue. It's turning gray. Few dark clouds.
An hour later blue is gone altogether.
It's 8pm. Flashes of light. BOOM!

By the end of the first page in this thread, the blue sky was already turning gray.

Debate, discussion is profitable. But it's interesting to see the change taking place in the posts.

I am not pointing fingers. I am not disagreeing. I am not suggesting any wrong. Not excluding myself. Just an observation is all.
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good observation. remembering that the enemy is more than willing and present and ready to post,
and there's not a 'gatekeeper' except for keeping out (when they do their job) the heresy of the rcc
and occasionally other false religions also trying to promote. thus a lot of side-tracking and possible(not always) corrections as needed.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#324
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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#324
Jeff_56 said:
absolutely YES! gloriously ! graciously ! abundantly !

haven't you met anyone yet who was crucified with yahshua hamashiach ? (rhetorical almost)

((most people have not, or when they do, they chose not to be part of /with Christ crucified themself ))
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well, as far as I can tell, everyone that I've met sins... so no, I haven't met the no longer sinning people yet...

or maybe you mean that believers in Jesus are counted as righteous? so, counted by God as not sinning?
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#325
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
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#325
Dan_473 said:
I see. so, do only those who have crucified the affections and lusts, and so never sin again, are they the only ones who get to go to heaven? or do non-crucifiers go too?
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awkward on a site like this.

Scripture says that all those in yahshua hamashiach were crucified with him before the creation of the world. this is incomprehensible , but it is written and it is truth. (i.e. it has nothing to do with and does not at all mean that people were around before the world was created.)
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#326
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
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#326
Dan_473 said:
I see. so, do only those who have crucified the affections and lusts, and so never sin again, are they the only ones who get to go to heaven? or do non-crucifiers go too?
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It is written, "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator." (1 Peter 4:17-19).

Yes, God realizes that some will be saved without getting a chance to prove their faith because they live only a short time in this life like with the thief on the cross. But as for others who have more than enough time to get their act together with God and they squander their time in loving their own sin and or the ways of this world are not going to make it. They will be destroyed both body and soul and it will be as if they never existed.
 
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J

Jeff_56

Banned
#327
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
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#327
the english is a little rough here.

please show IN THIS QUOTE where anyone asked if you have ever met "no longer sinning people" ?

unless you equate "no longer sinning people" with "those who have been crucified with Christ"

.....

and no worries (in fact relief!) if you have not met either yet. that explains a lot simply in line with Scripture.

Jeff_56 said:
absolutely YES! gloriously ! graciously ! abundantly !

haven't you met anyone yet who was crucified with yahshua hamashiach ? (rhetorical almost)

((most people have not, or when they do, they chose not to be part of /with Christ crucified themself ))
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Dan_473 said:
well, as far as I can tell, everyone that I've met sins... so no, I haven't met the no longer sinning people yet...

or maybe you mean that believers in Jesus are counted as righteous? so, counted by God as not sinning?
Click to expand...
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#328
Jul 22, 2014
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#328
For narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it (Not many).
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#329
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#329
Dan_473 said:
well, as far as I can tell, everyone that I've met sins... so no, I haven't met the no longer sinning people yet...

or maybe you mean that believers in Jesus are counted as righteous? so, counted by God as not sinning?
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No, if a person sins they need to confess and forsake that sin. A beleiver is not covered by the blood of Jesus if they continue to walk in darkness or sin. Read 1 John 1:5-9.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#330
Jul 22, 2014
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#330
For nowhere is a sin and still be saved doctrine even taught in Scripture. The only reason people choose to hold to such a false belief is because of the "Condemnation" mentioned in Scripture (John 3:19-21).
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#331
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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#331
Jason0047 said:
So you are saying that because you did not see the world formed in six days you are going to assume that it did not happen?
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well, the proper parallel would be if I saw the world created in, say, a million years... then yes, I would go back and rethink what I thought I had read in the bible...


For by faith we know about how the world was formed. There are things in this life you take by faith that goes beyond what we see. Seeing that you have not met everyone and seeing you cannot read people's thoughts, or seeing you cannot record every thing they have ever done in their life (mentally and physically), I think it is safe to assume that you cannot actually know if you met someone who has stopped sinning or not. That is only something God would truly know.
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ok, good point! I guess I would say it seems to be so rare as to be practically non-existent... imo...

I can testify personally that one can stop in their sin.
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well, sounds cool! what's the longest you've stopped for?
Does that mean, I may not sin tommorrow, next week, or this year? I can't answer that question because I am not God. What I can do is love God with all my being and trust in Him that he will keep me.

Please take note that I am talking about sins that lead unto death (i.e. spiritual death).
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hmmm... I'm confused... are there sins that don't lead to death? which ones?
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#333
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
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#333
Dan_473 said:
I'm interested in this idea... how sorry does one have to be? is there a way to know if you're sorry enough?
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return to Scripture: esau and judas the betrayer was sorry, but they couldn't repent nor were they forgiven....

"being sorry" is not what repentance is. (although "the world" loves it ! (for people to think being sorry helps and makes a difference) (without repenting) ) (the heresy teaches that all day long!)
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#334
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#334
Dan_473 said:
well, the proper parallel would be if I saw the world created in, say, a million years... then yes, I would go back and rethink what I thought I had read in the bible...
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But we both know that is not going to happen so you take it by faith that the Earth was created in six days.

ok, good point! I guess I would say it seems to be so rare as to be practically non-existent... imo...
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Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it.

well, sounds cool! what's the longest you've stopped for?
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Would it really matter? If I told you 5 years or 10 years? Would it matter if it was several months or a year? The point is that I did overcome sin. My personal life is not the standard. God's Word is the standard. The Bible says believers in several places have stopped from sinning and I believe it. I seen it work in my own life by the power of God and I know by what the Word says that believers have stopped in their sin and that is enough for me.

hmmm... I'm confused... are there sins that don't lead to death? which ones?
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1 John 5:16-18 talks about sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death. The sins that do not lead unto death are sins that one confesses to God (Whereby they seek to forsake them with God's help). Sins that do not lead unto death are also hidden or secret faults or errors (Psalm 19:12). For example: A believer might drink soberly at a restaurant and another believer might stumble back into alcoholism because of their drinking. For they might have looked up to this person for strength spiritually at one time and were having a moment of weakness. So they went to find this person to get strength from them, but instead they got temptation. The believer who is unaware of this peron watching them had caused a fellow brother to stumble. They committed a sin that did not lead unto death by being too cavalier about their liberty in Christ. For we are told not to let our good be evil spoken of. We are also to avoid having any appearance of evil, too.
 
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Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#335
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#335
Jeff_56 said:
awkward on a site like this.

Scripture says that all those in yahshua hamashiach were crucified with him before the creation of the world. this is incomprehensible , but it is written and it is truth. (i.e. it has nothing to do with and does not at all mean that people were around before the world was created.)
Click to expand...
why is it awkward?

seems to me there's a lot of sin going around (yes, mine too)... so are there only a few crucified peeps?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#336
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#336
Jason0047 said:
It is written, "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator." (1 Peter 4:17-19).

Yes, God realizes that some will be saved without getting a chance to prove their faith because they live only a short time in this life like with the thief on the cross. But as for others who have more than enough time to get their act together with God and they squander their time in loving their own sin and or the ways of this world are not going to make it. They will be destroyed both body and soul and it will be as if they never existed.
Click to expand...
so... anyone who lives more than a day or two after believing in Jesus, and then sins, and then dies before they crucify the flesh (which means they don't sin anymore)... that person won't go to heaven, but will be destroyed?
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#337
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#337
Dan_473 said:
why is it awkward?

seems to me there's a lot of sin going around (yes, mine too)... so are there only a few crucified peeps?
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what is written in Scripture ? that hasn't changed in ....... well, ever.... !
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#338
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#338
Jeff_56 said:
the english is a little rough here.

please show IN THIS QUOTE where anyone asked if you have ever met "no longer sinning people" ?

unless you equate "no longer sinning people" with "those who have been crucified with Christ"

.....

and no worries (in fact relief!) if you have not met either yet. that explains a lot simply in line with Scripture.
Click to expand...
I understood the idea put forward here was that people who had been crucified no longer sinned... and that they were the only ones saved... did I misunderstand?
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#339
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#339
Dan_473 said:
so... anyone who lives more than a day or two after believing in Jesus, and then sins, and then dies before they crucify the flesh (which means they don't sin anymore)... that person won't go to heaven, but will be destroyed?
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Only God can determine the thoughts and intentions within a person's heart. If a believer knows about confessing sin and they refuse to confess it under the conviction of the Spirit, then they are not going to make it. But God knows the heart. A person cannot outsmart God concerning their evil or sin. As I said before, some believers crucifiy the affections and lusts right away and others it is a process that takes time thru confessing it and seeking to forsake it with God's help.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#340
#340
Dan_473 said:
why is it awkward?

seems to me there's a lot of sin going around (yes, mine too)... so are there only a few crucified peeps?
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Amen bro. I even gave us all something to agree on (that a Christ follower with a regenerated reborn heart should live in Jesus victory and power.....which btw is in His name) and I'm feeling pretty good about it.....Maybe a little prideful even. And yet the focus is on disagreeing. How ironic. Whatever....I have things to do.
 
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