Do you really believe and are you really saved?
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in the context of this chapter, it's about ostracizing the believer who was living openly in sin.
but either way - can you deny that he says "you really are leavened" ??
he doesn't say 'so you can really be leavened' but you really are - so the reason to cleanse out the leaven is to be faithful to reality, not to bring it about. righteous living is an effect, not a cause.
brought back from walking in darkness?
or brought back from falling?
Paul goes on to say:
that's past-tense "were bought" and present tense "not your own" and for the present and the future "glorify God in your body"
he doesn't say 'if you glorify God in your body, then and only then will you be bought and not be your own'
but here, and in Romans, and everywhere else, he speaks as though justification and washing have already taken place, when we believe, therefore we should act with our bodies in a way that's consistent with the truth of what has already happened in our souls.
to understand James, we have to understand the truth -- is James talking about any careless sin when he talks about a man who wanders from the truth?
or is he talking about something more? because he doesn't say 'if someone sins' -- he says, "if someone wanders from the truth"
because if i forget who i am in Christ, and no longer trust that Jesus has died for my sin, once and for all, am i not on my way to death? if i reject that washing i first received, or think it 'not yet enough' to have redeemed me in truth, what am i doing? looking for a second offering for sin, when no other can be made?
it looks like there is error on either side, and a narrow road between. it depends on God's mercy, and not my works. but if i do not walk in the light, i do not have the truth. who will keep my foot from falling? who will keep me from boasting above my low place?
praise God, in Him i already died, and i know my Redeemer lives!
but either way - can you deny that he says "you really are leavened" ??
he doesn't say 'so you can really be leavened' but you really are - so the reason to cleanse out the leaven is to be faithful to reality, not to bring it about. righteous living is an effect, not a cause.
brought back from walking in darkness?
or brought back from falling?
Paul goes on to say:
You are not your own, for you were bought with a price.
So glorify God in your body.
(1 Corinthians 6:19-20)
So glorify God in your body.
(1 Corinthians 6:19-20)
that's past-tense "were bought" and present tense "not your own" and for the present and the future "glorify God in your body"
he doesn't say 'if you glorify God in your body, then and only then will you be bought and not be your own'
but here, and in Romans, and everywhere else, he speaks as though justification and washing have already taken place, when we believe, therefore we should act with our bodies in a way that's consistent with the truth of what has already happened in our souls.
to understand James, we have to understand the truth -- is James talking about any careless sin when he talks about a man who wanders from the truth?
or is he talking about something more? because he doesn't say 'if someone sins' -- he says, "if someone wanders from the truth"
because if i forget who i am in Christ, and no longer trust that Jesus has died for my sin, once and for all, am i not on my way to death? if i reject that washing i first received, or think it 'not yet enough' to have redeemed me in truth, what am i doing? looking for a second offering for sin, when no other can be made?
it looks like there is error on either side, and a narrow road between. it depends on God's mercy, and not my works. but if i do not walk in the light, i do not have the truth. who will keep my foot from falling? who will keep me from boasting above my low place?
praise God, in Him i already died, and i know my Redeemer lives!
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Yesterday was, today is, and tomorrow will be. NOW. Right now. Yesterday is gone.
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. Hebrews 4:1
Yesterday was, today is, and tomorrow will be. NOW. Right now. Yesterday is gone.
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. Hebrews 4:1
I never said anything about the necessity for works for one to receive God's love.
I said God's love is conditional on your obedience in keeping God's commandments. I said that, because Jesus said it. I was just repeating what He said. If I were to tell you that IF you obey me, then you will stay in my graces, then it would stand to reason, that IF you didn't obey me, then you WOULDN'T stay in my graces.
Is that so difficult for anyone to see?
Also, biblical believing and true God like faith, requires corresponding action in order for God to act on your behalf.
Paul makes it very clear, that salvation is not given until one confesses what they believe in there heart concerning Jesus and His work on the cross, and takes it personally.
As I have said many times before, the confession is considered by God to be a work of faith, so long as you truly believe it in your heart.
The centurion told Jesus to, "speak the word [of faith] only, and my servant shall be healed".
The spoken word of God is an action that agrees with what you believe in your heart and is therefore a work of faith.
Again, faith without corresponding works is dead, and the same holds true with believing. Even as Abraham was justified before God when he offered up Isaac and not before, according to James. Neither is one justified for merely believing that Jesus is the Christ and that God raised Him on the third day. It must be a personal thing, and there must be a corresponding action to your immediate heart belief.
I'm not talking about doing something totally unrelated to what you believe right then or anytime thereafter. That would fall under the category of works of the law.
I believe there is a difference between abiding in God's love and separating us from His love, because the word of God cannot contradict itself.
Both are written, so both must be talking about something different because both statement are the truth. Beyond that, I don't know why the two verses appear to conflict with each other.
This is the light of the gospel.
I said God's love is conditional on your obedience in keeping God's commandments. I said that, because Jesus said it. I was just repeating what He said. If I were to tell you that IF you obey me, then you will stay in my graces, then it would stand to reason, that IF you didn't obey me, then you WOULDN'T stay in my graces.
Is that so difficult for anyone to see?
Also, biblical believing and true God like faith, requires corresponding action in order for God to act on your behalf.
Paul makes it very clear, that salvation is not given until one confesses what they believe in there heart concerning Jesus and His work on the cross, and takes it personally.
As I have said many times before, the confession is considered by God to be a work of faith, so long as you truly believe it in your heart.
The centurion told Jesus to, "speak the word [of faith] only, and my servant shall be healed".
The spoken word of God is an action that agrees with what you believe in your heart and is therefore a work of faith.
Again, faith without corresponding works is dead, and the same holds true with believing. Even as Abraham was justified before God when he offered up Isaac and not before, according to James. Neither is one justified for merely believing that Jesus is the Christ and that God raised Him on the third day. It must be a personal thing, and there must be a corresponding action to your immediate heart belief.
I'm not talking about doing something totally unrelated to what you believe right then or anytime thereafter. That would fall under the category of works of the law.
I believe there is a difference between abiding in God's love and separating us from His love, because the word of God cannot contradict itself.
Both are written, so both must be talking about something different because both statement are the truth. Beyond that, I don't know why the two verses appear to conflict with each other.
This is the light of the gospel.
I am with you in most here apart from this "genuinely" thingy. How can people know for sure that they were authentically, genuinely, and "really" saved? When trials, struggles and failures comes, where are they gonna look for their right standing with God? Are they gonna look into themselves and dig deep in some murky place called "heart" for enough genuineness? Or are they gonna look to Christ alone? I for one want to make fully sure that I am always under a teaching that directs to me no other ground for my assurance other than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself and His atoning blood and imputed alien righteousness as the ground for my assurance. Wholly outside of myself, only in Christ Jesus, must I look for such an assurance.
Well.. again it's between that person and God. But if they really weren't serious.. then the never saved in first place statement stands.
It's the teaching that people bring up.. such as.. 'this person was faithful for a long time went to church, read their bible, prayed regularly.. then something happened and they no longer believe... '
So then they will say this person was 'never saved to begin with'
This is what I don't agree with.
It's the teaching that people bring up.. such as.. 'this person was faithful for a long time went to church, read their bible, prayed regularly.. then something happened and they no longer believe... '
So then they will say this person was 'never saved to begin with'
This is what I don't agree with.
What I am saying has nothing to do with who or what God is, but what He gives.
God is giving a part of Himself to you, like taking an apple from an apple tree. You just have the apple, not the whole tree.
If you are obedient to God's commands and walk in the Spirit vs. someone else who is living in sin, will God look at the two of you the same?
If one of you is good and the other wicked, will both of you be in the graces of God. Will He bless you both equally.
He may love both, but one will witness His wrath.
Remember, this same God of love is sending millions of souls to hell for eternity.
Please explain that kind of love and the verse I gave in the above posts.
God is giving a part of Himself to you, like taking an apple from an apple tree. You just have the apple, not the whole tree.
If you are obedient to God's commands and walk in the Spirit vs. someone else who is living in sin, will God look at the two of you the same?
If one of you is good and the other wicked, will both of you be in the graces of God. Will He bless you both equally.
He may love both, but one will witness His wrath.
Remember, this same God of love is sending millions of souls to hell for eternity.
Please explain that kind of love and the verse I gave in the above posts.
You are still stating love is an emotion God gives you and that is where we differ.
Good gracious man, really!?!?!? FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD.
Your theology is screwy, God does not send anyone to hell, you earn your way to hell. Romans 6.23 tell us this.
God loves an unbeliever just as he loves those that obey his commandments. Yet you make a mockery of God, when you suggest that just because you are "saved" you have a one up on GOD love and get more than the sinner.
This is self righteousness and works based salvation.
You do nothing to earn God's grace, he gives it to the sinner and the saved.
The theology you are peddling is refuting most, if not all of the Bible.
Good gracious man, really!?!?!? FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD.
Your theology is screwy, God does not send anyone to hell, you earn your way to hell. Romans 6.23 tell us this.
God loves an unbeliever just as he loves those that obey his commandments. Yet you make a mockery of God, when you suggest that just because you are "saved" you have a one up on GOD love and get more than the sinner.
This is self righteousness and works based salvation.
You do nothing to earn God's grace, he gives it to the sinner and the saved.
The theology you are peddling is refuting most, if not all of the Bible.
K
Problem being is that by rewriting a scripture like that and changing its meaning is wrong, as the clear original scripture says you will save a soul from death. Only God can destroy the soul by casting it in the lake of fire, man can not kill the soul, and this is not speaking of physical death in the flesh. It is a clear warning from James to those who fall away from the faith, that being stop believing in Jesus Christ....
I have a problem with that as well.
The reason for that kind of statement though is because of the OSAS belief.
If OSAS is the truth, then it stands to reason that one cannot lose their salvation, therefore they could not have been born again in the first place.
That's why I brought up the scenario about healing and tied that to salvation.
But I guess no one else sees it that way.
The reason for that kind of statement though is because of the OSAS belief.
If OSAS is the truth, then it stands to reason that one cannot lose their salvation, therefore they could not have been born again in the first place.
That's why I brought up the scenario about healing and tied that to salvation.
But I guess no one else sees it that way.
Feelings by themselves should never be the source of bringing peace. Whilst feelings are important they should rather be the fruit of peace with God rather than being something to look unto for same.
I understand this. And I agree that there can be a problem with this. However, one must also be wary about that someone proclaim someone else as saved yet that person is bearing absolutely no fruit whatsoever. And sometimes even they go out of the faith that they once professed. No perseverance. This is the risk of taking OSAS arminianism too far. To end up with the notion that someone may only "believe one moment in time" and then no fruit follows, no continuing in faith follows. This is certainly not scriptural.
I understand this. And I agree that there can be a problem with this. However, one must also be wary about that someone proclaim someone else as saved yet that person is bearing absolutely no fruit whatsoever. And sometimes even they go out of the faith that they once professed. No perseverance. This is the risk of taking OSAS arminianism too far. To end up with the notion that someone may only "believe one moment in time" and then no fruit follows, no continuing in faith follows. This is certainly not scriptural.
No sir.
You are the one saying that I am stating that love is an emotion.
Again, I never said such a thing.
God is a spirit, and like faith, love is a spirit of God also.
As for God giving grace to both sinners and believer, you had better double check that theology of yours.
God does not give grace to the unrepented sinner or believer.
All are under the wrath of God until saved, for God hates sin.
He loved us enough to die for us, but the sin we commit He hates, but the hard hearted and those who exalt themselves will not be in or receive God's grace.
You are the one saying that I am stating that love is an emotion.
Again, I never said such a thing.
God is a spirit, and like faith, love is a spirit of God also.
As for God giving grace to both sinners and believer, you had better double check that theology of yours.
God does not give grace to the unrepented sinner or believer.
All are under the wrath of God until saved, for God hates sin.
He loved us enough to die for us, but the sin we commit He hates, but the hard hearted and those who exalt themselves will not be in or receive God's grace.
K
That is because OSAS is dominating the religious scene again.
A lot of good preachers came out and banded together in the 90's to fight off this false doctrine started by John Calvin because of how dangerous it is. Back then it taught you could live however you want and still have eternal life. Now days they are coming back out again, but now they are saying no no no we don't believe you can live however you want. But the first minute you bring up how one's walk matters because it goes hand and hand with salvation. They pull out their boxing gloves and start calling you a false teacher, and even start calling names and being disrespectful towards you.
I try to tell them you can not have it both ways; Either your walk matters or you can live however you want, which is it ?
They won't answer but continue with insults, or avoid the question and ask one back instead.................
A lot of good preachers came out and banded together in the 90's to fight off this false doctrine started by John Calvin because of how dangerous it is. Back then it taught you could live however you want and still have eternal life. Now days they are coming back out again, but now they are saying no no no we don't believe you can live however you want. But the first minute you bring up how one's walk matters because it goes hand and hand with salvation. They pull out their boxing gloves and start calling you a false teacher, and even start calling names and being disrespectful towards you.
I try to tell them you can not have it both ways; Either your walk matters or you can live however you want, which is it ?
They won't answer but continue with insults, or avoid the question and ask one back instead.................
S
Your questions have been answered again and again...yet you keep propagating the lie that we say that a person who has kneeled before the cross will not strive toward God. The biggest thing that irks me about you is that there are people who legitimately struggle with a lifetime of pain, ingrained bad habits and even emotional problems... but it takes time to get well.....for a lot of people. You have no grace, no love and no understanding for the broken. And for that I count you as one big giant ignorant knucklehead...you and a couple of your kin here on this site. You're stuck and your operating system is glitched out... and is in desperate need of the antivirus program called Jesus.