Do you really believe and are you really saved?

[know1]

Your questions have been answered again and again...yet you keep propagating the lie that we say that a person who has kneeled before the cross will not strive toward God. The biggest thing that irks me about you is that there are people who legitimately struggle with a lifetime of pain, ingrained bad habits and even emotional problems... but it takes time to get well.....for a lot of people. You have no grace, no love and no understanding for the broken. And for that I count you as one big giant ignorant knucklehead...you and a couple of your kin here on this site. You're stuck and your operating system is glitched out... and is in desperate need of the antivirus program called Jesus.

Is that what they call, tough love?
Aside from the above comment, you bring up a good point.
Struggling with ingrained bad habits and the like, will not remove the salvation of a person who has personally received Jesus as their lord and savior. Unless they don't care or it doesn't bother them.
Those bound by bad habits are bound by the devil and are in need of deliverance.
They do not lose their salvation because of their ignorance, just like those who don't know that healing is for every child of God for today. Their quality of live won't be as good and it may cause them to die early, but they won't be cast in hell because of it.
It is a matter of the condition of the heart, not the acts themselves.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Your questions have been answered again and again...yet you keep propagating the lie that we say that a person who has kneeled before the cross will not strive toward God. The biggest thing that irks me about you is that there are people who legitimately struggle with a lifetime of pain, ingrained bad habits and even emotional problems... but it takes time to get well.....for a lot of people. You have no grace, no love and no understanding for the broken. And for that I count you as one big giant ignorant knucklehead...you and a couple of your kin here on this site. You're stuck and your operating system is glitched out... and is in desperate need of the antivirus program called Jesus.

The bible says you have to do more then just kneel before the cross, as Jesus says you have to take up your cross and follow Him. You are not following Him if you are disobeying His teachings, as He clearly says and shows that those who believe in Him will do what He says.

Then there you go again with the insults and lies about me, because I have constantly said it takes some more time to stop committing for some then others. I have even said this is what the Apostle John was saying in 1 John 5:16-17 about sins not leading to death, and that is those sins that have been repented of that a person is still struggling to stop.

The key is though trying to stop as a person can not continue to keep on doing that sin without trying to stop, and the Holy Spirit within a person will help them to stop. And a person struggling with a lifetime of pain is not sin, so that does not even apply here. However a person can not live in a bad habit the rest of their life, and the Holy Spirit will help them to not live that way. Those who have emotional problems I sympathize with, but if they stay that way for the rest of their life they were never helped and shown how to put their full faith in the Holy Spirit. If a person is this way I blame the church and their supporting cast around them, not the person themselves, for it is our responsibility to esteem those who are down.

As for those who have mental disorders that I don't even bring into the discussion because if they can not discern between right and wrong then because of those disorders sin is not relevant to them. Remember the bible shows only those who can discern right from wrong will be held accountable for what they do, and believers are not immune to this accountability..........

 

[Kaycie]

There is no doubt in my mind. I believe what He says will come to pass. I believe He would not have His Son die for nothing. Therefore people WILL be saved, and the bible tells us how, all we have to do is obey what was written. The bible says these things are written so that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life.

 

[vic1980]

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

 

[just-me]

(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Yesterday was, today is, and tomorrow will be. NOW. Right now. Yesterday is gone.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. Hebrews 4:1

I'm going to take a stab at what I think you are saying.
From what I gather, you are saying OSAS.
And it doesn't matter what happens afterwards?
Do I have that right?
I'm not sure exactly what you are saying.
If you don't mind elaborating for me.
Thanks

No, it isn't OSAS. Salvation is daily. It's not a thing of the past, but has a future in Christ. We are saved by hope every day. I'm endorsing to walk the walk daily. Jesus said "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." (Luke 9:23b) One should never look at God's promises as something that happened to us in the past.

"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." 1 Timothy 4:16

This verse posted by vic complements what I'm endorsing.

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes and yes. 1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[valiant]

No, it isn't OSAS. Salvation is daily. It's not a thing of the past, but has a future in Christ. We are saved by hope every day. I'm endorsing to walk the walk daily. Jesus said "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." (Luke 9:23b) One should never look at God's promises as something that happened to us in the past.

"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." 1 Timothy 4:16

This verse posted by vic complements what I'm endorsing.

What people like you fail to recognise is the all embracing nature of salvation in and by Christ Jesus. You are like the blind men who felt different parts of the elephant and came up with different ideas of what it looked like.


Scripture is designed to deal with people and help people in every situation. Some need encouragement, some need exhortation, some need discipline, some need guiding, some need the whip, some need the carrot. The Scripture provides for each and for all.

But salvation is not our work, it is God's. It is both OSAS and daily. We who are His have been saved once for all when we came to Him (Tit 3.5). By His unmerited love and favour we have been saved so that we can now say, 'I am saved' (Eph 2.8-9). As a consequence we are in process of salvation (1 Cor 1.18), and can look forward to ultimate salvation (1 Thess 5.8). And it is His work from start to finish. And in order to aid in this work God has provided in the Scriptures the kinds of exhortation needed at different times in our lives.

But underlying all is His absolute assurance that He will complete His work in all who are His. See John 6.37-44; 10.27-29; Rom 8.29-30; 1 Cor 1.8-9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 1.12; Heb 7.25; Jude 24. These verses are so crystal clear that one might think His word could not be doubted. But some are so sinful that they are unable to believe Him. They cannot believe that He can be so good. They think that they have to trust in themselves. Thus they struggle on, often in the wrong kind of doubt and fear.

Their minds are so full of 'work out your own salvation with fear and trembling' that they never see the next verse 'BECAUSE GOD IS AT WORK IN YOU TO WILL AND DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE'. (In other words God says 'work out with greatest care what I am working in'). They look constantly at themselves, and fail to keep their eyes and their trust in the Great Physician, the Good Unfailing Shepherd Who has promised not to let them finally perish. They are only half-believers..

 

[PeterJens]

Are we emotional gloop, held together by our brains, with many contradictions, living partial lives in separated areas?

I suspect that could be a good model. But there is one thing that will bring it all together into a consistent glorious whole, Jesus. Like a wind that blows, all the inconsistency will be blown away and the foundations exposed. If there are none, it will just all apart, like a disfunctional car without any bolts.

So do you really believe is simple. If you see Jesus dying on the cross for your sin, and it grieves you, you know the Lord. Jesus is our Lord, whether we follow him well or badly, it is just a question of what you are building on this foundation.
Too many theorise and are not real about themselves or others.

I have a relative who suffers from schizophrenia. Now she has a good heart, often disfunctional, and she has some faith but little strength. She is like a child in a garden, and things easily get too much. Who am I to say how the Lord looks on her and the wounds she suffers daily. All I can do is love and support her, and share what the Lord offered everyone, "Believe on me and you will be saved."

Some have suggested that faith and experience do not go hand in hand, but they do, because things are simply not clear in detail. Our wills and desires are often wrong, so do we expect the Lord to do what we want or to show us His will?

If people want to say the are like Jesus and show it, then amen, but I have not met someone like this yet. I hear and see empty bags of air, claim great things but deliver nothing, which means they have lied and deserve no respect. If you want to hold a high view of faith, walk on water my friend, then I will listen.

 

[wattie]

That is because OSAS is dominating the religious scene again.
A lot of good preachers came out and banded together in the 90's to fight off this false doctrine started by John Calvin because of how dangerous it is. Back then it taught you could live however you want and still have eternal life. Now days they are coming back out again, but now they are saying no no no we don't believe you can live however you want. But the first minute you bring up how one's walk matters because it goes hand and hand with salvation. They pull out their boxing gloves and start calling you a false teacher, and even start calling names and being disrespectful towards you.
I try to tell them you can not have it both ways; Either your walk matters or you can live however you want, which is it ?

They won't answer but continue with insults, or avoid the question and ask one back instead.................

The belief that one CAN lose salvation IS the most popular belief!!!!

I don't know where you get the idea that OSAS is the dominant teaching.

Pentecostal and Charismatic churches faaaaaar outnumber other churches and they are the main ones that teach salvation can be lossed!

(Sigh)

 

[secularhermit]

I don´t want to be a killjoy, I don´t want to spur bragging any more, but I like what the Lord Jesus actually said on those lines:


Luk 18:14 Then Jesus said, "When the two men went home, it was the tax collector and not the Pharisee who was pleasing to God. If you put yourself above others, you will be put down. But if you humble yourself, you will be honored."

 

[know1]

I don´t want to be a killjoy, I don´t want to spur bragging any more, but I like what the Lord Jesus actually said on those lines:


Luk 18:14 Then Jesus said, "When the two men went home, it was the tax collector and not the Pharisee who was pleasing to God. If you put yourself above others, you will be put down. But if you humble yourself, you will be honored."

It is a universal law that is a respecter of no persons. It applies to both the believer and doubter alike.
Mat 23:12
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

 

[Crustyone]

According to Romans 10:6-7 I am not sure this is a good thing to be talking about.6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’”[b] (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”[c] (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

 

[know1]

According to Romans 10:6-7 I am not sure this is a good thing to be talking about.6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’”[b] (that is, to bring Christ down)7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”[c] (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

Are you asking if the subject in discussion is a good thing to talk about or what the verse you quoted is about.

Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it [that is, the righteousness which is of faith]? The word [of faith] is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For one to truly believe, it must be of the heart and not the head or to mentally ascend to the truth of the gospel.
For the new birth to take place one must act on that which they believe, by verbally speaking it. Faith is released through words.
Again, faith without works or corresponding action is dead. So faith must have an accompanying act or action in line with the belief. Without it, nothing will happen. The person may thing they are saved, when they are not.