None Good...No Not One!

Reborn · Jun 16, 2015

Those who believe OSAS, believe a lie?
That's an insult.

Alright Dave, cool.
To each his own.

I don't have the energy to debate those who think the Holy Spirit is given and taken away from us. As if God teases us.
....or just don't have the guts to say that those who believe OSAS, never had the Holy Spirit in the first place.

I hate circular arguments.
Sorry, brother.

mwc68 · Jun 16, 2015

DiscipleDave said:

According to Scriptures who is Eternal life for? NOT according to what people teach, not according to what men teach, Who does Eternal Salvation belong too ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD.

Heb_5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

There you have it, straight from the Holy Inspired Word of God itself, plainly and clearly teaching WHO has Eternal Salvation, it is unto them that OBEY JESUS, NOT to them who disobey Him. Those who believe you have Eternal Salvation yet continue to disobey Him, are the ones who do not know the Truth, nor do they believe Scriptures which plainly teach Eternal Salvation is unto them that OBEY, woe to them who do not obey Him still thinking they have Eternal Salvation because that is what man interprets the Scriptures to mean, Yet Scriptures do not teach that at all.

Have you not read in Scriptures over and over and over, that those who Truly Love Jesus keep His Commandments, They do NOT break His Commandments. What are His Commandments? Do not listen to what men teach His Commandments are, listen to the Bible which PLAINLY tells us what His Commandments are.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should 1) BELIEVE (Faith) on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and 2) LOVE ONE ANOTHER (Works), as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. (Who does Jesus dwell in according to the Word of God, the Inspired Word of God? Those who KEEP His Commandments) And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Woe to this generation which believes doctrines of men, they believe the Interpretations of men, which interprets the Bible to mean Eternal Salvation is unto those who accept Jesus Christ and it does not matter if you OBEY Him or not Obey Him, you are still SAVED, false doctrines, which the Scriptures does not teach, only the interpretations of men teach that doctrine. SCRIPTURES teach Eternal Salvation is unto them that OBEY JESUS, and JESUS Commands us to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Those who claim to have Eternal Salvation and do NOT Love One Another, are they that do not know the Truth nor will they be taken When Jesus Returns, these all will be weeping and gnashing their teeth, because they though ignorance believed OSAS, which the Scriptures DO NOT TEACH. They will be left behind, and it is not like God did not try to warn them, for God has sent me and many others to teach against the false doctrine OSAS. Have they gone to the Scriptures to search if what we say is TRUE or NOT? No they haven't because they do not want to know the Truth, they want to believe as they do, and therefore do not search the Scriptures to see if the things i teach is the Truth or not, NO what i teach is contrary to what you believe, therefore you will not search the Scriptures to see if what i say is Truth or not, there is no excuse for those who are left behind, even though they thought with all their hearts they were going to get taken, ONLY a few has found that narrow and difficult path that leads to everlasting life, and the MANY will not listen to the FEW who know the Truth, the Many will continue on the path of living in their sins (obeying satan) and still think they are Heaven Bound, because they hold on to with their lives the doctrine of OSAS and will not let go of it no matter who tries to tell them otherwise, and you know what, it will cost them just that, their lives. i have told you the Truth, i have testified that what i teach God has told me, my hands are clean of your blood those who believe OSAS, which is a lie satan started in order to KEEP people sinning, to KEEP them in bondage to sin all the while thinking they are Heaven bound. So you go ahead and THINK you have Eternal Salvation, but know this, the SCRIPTURES do not lie, and the Scriptures plainly teach WHO Eternal Salvation is for, and it is to them that OBEY JESUS, to them that LOVE ONE ANOTHER. i have told you the Truth, search the Scriptures to see if what i say is True or not, Wait forgot what generation i am talking too, you already know the Truth, therefore it is on me to PROVE you wrong, right? WRONG. God told me i am not called to convince people of the Truth, i am called to reveal the Truths which He told me to reveal to a generation that will altogether ignore it, or scroll down and not read it. What i am called to do, says God to me, is to reveal the Truth to you, so you will not be able to plead ignorance on Judgment Day. i have told you the Truth, God has revealed the Truth to you, via through His servant.

Eternal Salvation is unto the that OBEY Jesus. Do i say and teach that, or does Scriptures teach that?

This Generation teaches that they have Eternal Salvation, even though they do not obey Jesus ALL the time, they are deceived and do not know the Truth. Jesus testifies Himself that a persons name can be blotted out of the Book of Life. That means a persons name that IS written in the Book of Life (SAVED) Can be removed. it would be in your best interest, because your eternal life is at stake here, that you search the Scriptures to find out the Truth concerning this matter, if you do, you are wise. But if you continue to merely believe you know the Truth and need not search the Scriptures, you are unwise, and there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth when MANY people who thought they were SAVED, will not be taken up with Him, Remember the Words of our Lord.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (Go to Church all the time, Are we not under your Blood, Are we not SAVED by GRACE, Are we not ALWAYS SAVED)
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, (you that continue to live in sin) ye that work iniquity.

Woe indeed.

^i^ Responding to Post #924

I agree with this. I have had my suspicions of OSAS for awhile now as an unbiblical doctrine

dcontroversal · Jun 16, 2015

There are some really dense people on this site......WHATSOEVER GOD DOES IT IS ETERNAL<---------this is applicable to EVERYTHING that GOD DOES and includes SAVING SOMEONE, SEALING SOMEONE, SANCTIFYING SOMEONE and JUSTIFYING SOMEONE.....to say one can lose salvation or have the SPIRIT yanked REJECTS the simple PRINCIPLE found in the bolded!

eternally-gratefull · Jun 16, 2015

mwc68 said:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, (you that continue to live in sin) ye that work iniquity.

This very passage speaks to you and mr Dave here.

All your works you will be crying out to God why he should save you. Yet Jesus will say to you to depart. for he NEVER KNEW YOU

I just love how you people use this verse to decry OSAS, when this very passage SUPPORTS OSAS.

Jesus is not going to tell someone who was saved, born of his spirit, adopted as his son, then kicked out of his family, he never knew them, for he would be lying. and he himself would be in sin.

He is talking to you people who are trying to earn your way by sacraments, or works, or religious good deeds, or whatever means your trying to earn Gods gift. He says they practice sin because the very work they do to earn salvation, which may look religious and seem right, is sin, because it is done to gain something God said can never be earned.

Then again, Your not allowed interpreting scripture, your church forbids it. so again why are you in a bible forum?

dcontroversal · Jun 16, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, (you that continue to live in sin) ye that work iniquity.

This very passage speaks to you and mr Dave here.

All your works you will be crying out to God why he should save you. Yet Jesus will say to you to depart. for he NEVER KNEW YOU

I just love how you people use this verse to decry OSAS, when this very passage SUPPORTS OSAS.

Jesus is not going to tell someone who was saved, born of his spirit, adopted as his son, then kicked out of his family, he never knew them, for he would be lying. and he himself would be in sin.

He is talking to you people who are trying to earn your way by sacraments, or works, or religious good deeds, or whatever means your trying to earn Gods gift. He says they practice sin because the very work they do to earn salvation, which may look religious and seem right, is sin, because it is done to gain something God said can never be earned.

Then again, Your not allowed interpreting scripture, your church forbids it. so again why are you in a bible forum?

AMEN to that...it comes down to the simplicity that is found in CHRIST....amazes me how many teach you can lose it and if that is the case...everyone will cook as there is NOT a JUST man on the earth that does good and sins NOT! AT the end of the day they all believe a self righteous, works based, pseudo non gospel!

tribesman · Jun 16, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Oh but it has to be THEM in it...else God is unfair!

Some people just simply want to be goofs and trust their own work more than God's work. Notice this crowd in Matthew 7:

Their whole focus was themselves and THEIR works. These hypercarismatics believed that THEIR works would save them. Before God all they worked was iniquity.

Contrast this to John 6:

dcontroversal · Jun 16, 2015

tribesman said:

Oh but it has to be THEM in it...else God is unfair!

Some people just simply want to be goofs and trust their own work more than God's work. Notice this crowd in Matthew 7:

Their whole focus was themselves and THEIR works. These hypercarismatics believed that THEIR works would save them. Before God all they worked was iniquity.

Amen to that and I agree....!

Gr8grace · Jun 16, 2015

dcontroversal said:

This why eternal security is the FIRST doctrine to be put in the soul of the believer.

The Christian way of life will not and cannot be lived without this truth. It will be a life(flesh) FOR salvation, not a life(Spirit) BECAUSE of salvation.

It may be a life of niceness,sweetness,missions,warming a pew,cleaning the church..........but they are all(works) burned up in the end. The motivation of "For salvation" was wrong.

dcontroversal · Jun 16, 2015

Gr8grace said:

Amen to that for sure........I agree.......the first thing on the list is eternal salvation for all true believers........not that difficult for sure....

je1979 · Jun 16, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Hey dcontroversal, I hope things are well with you. After reading your post, it seems to be a little incomplete. While we were born in sin and deserving of eternal death, something is wrong if we continue to sin and therefore not become good through God. Paul mentions in Romans 6:1-2 that God will not continually cover our sins with His goodness if we continue to sin. I'm not just talking about constant sin, I mean an occasional, every once in a while sin also. At some point sin has to cease in your life completely (1 Peter 4:1) or Jesus will not consider you to have suffered like Him and therefore you will no longer be worthy of a reward like Him (2 Tim. 2:12). For instance, for me to tell people only "Thou shalt not" without convering what they should do. Without knowing what they should do, they can't fully understand the mentality of what they shouldn't do. It just becomes a cold listing to them with no life.

While I understand that man is not inherently good and incapable of producing good on his own, it is incomplete to not cover how man can become good through Jesus.

Ephesians 1 begins with likening us to orphans/bastards. When you were an orphan, you had no lineage or inheritance. Once I adopted you, not only was my home extended to you, but also my good name, an inheritance and my discipline. I taught you my ways so that you could become just like me. If I was a good man and taught you how to take on the nature of a good man, then why wouldn't you become a good man through my way and not of your own doing and understanding?

It is important to tell what we take on when we are true worshippers of Christ and not just what we were without Him.

Hymenaeus and Philetus. Hymeanaeus is mentioned only twice and Philetus once, yet neither is spoken of as trying to make their way back to a sinful life. Why does Paul regard them as blasphemers and delivered them to Satan (1 Tim. 1:20)? What does he list as their sin? Are they drunkards, or adulterers, or murderers or thieves? Were they con artists? Paul simply says that they erred in understanding scripture. But not just erred, they spread their misunderstanding to others who in turn, readily believed them. How many people will readily believe that no one can live without sinning at all after Jesus?

There are two types of unbelievers that infect others:
1) Those that are true ministers of satan (2 Cor. 11:14-15) and condemned of old (Jude 4) such as King Ahab. Evil men.
2) Those that don't mean to be evil, but spread incorrect understanding because of their misunderstanding such as Hymenaeus, Philetus and even the Apostle Paul and Apollos.

Remember, Paul considered himself to be the worst sinner, not because he did something so horrific, but because he affected others with his misunderstanding (1 Cor. 15:9). What separated Paul and Apollos from Hymenaeus and Philetus? They were willing to consider the truth and change.

Titus 2:12
1 John 3:6-9
1 Cor. 15:34
2 Cor. 7:1 - How can I perfect holiness and not become a good man through Jesus?

Let us no longer misunderstand Romans 3:10. Almost everyone speaks it out of context. If Romans 3:10 is still true about you then so is Romans 3:11. How can one be saved if they don't even seek God or understand anything about God? Paul was speaking of how people are before they are saved, not how people are continually. He was trying to get the Romans and us to understand why we needed Jesus, because we were inadequate before. But that was before. You should not still come up short if one is saved.

Jason0047 · Jun 17, 2015

je1979 said:

Yes, exactly. Romans 3:10 cannot be talking about how nobody is righteous in the present tense. It is talking about how we were before we were saved. For if that was not the case, (and nobody is righteous) then we have to also make Romans 3:11 say that there is nobody that understands (Which is not true) and that there is nobody that seeks after God (Which is also not true).

Jason0047 · Jun 17, 2015

As for Isaiah 64:6: First, It is in context to one having sin in their life as being considered an unclean thing. Second, it is talking about one's own righteousness and not the righteousness of God (According to His Word).

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses areas filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." (Isaiah 64:6).

Romans 10:3 sums this up nicely when it says,

"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

What does Scripture say about righteousness?

Well, one form of righteousness is in doing that which is righteous.

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." (1 John 3:7-8).

Jason0047 · Jun 17, 2015

When you read 1 John 1:8, you also have to read 1 John 2:1 where John says, "sin not." You also have to read 1 John 2:4 that says,

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Now, let me ask you a question. If you are breaking even of his commands, is the truth in you (according to the verse above)?

So then, we realize 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren against those false gnostic believers who claim they have no sin. Sort of like the OSAS proponent today who says a smilar thing. Yes, they will admit they sin physically, but John is not referring to the natural world in his epistle. The OSAS proponent believes sin is forgiven them (Past, present, and future). So the OSAS proponent does not believe they sin on a spiritual level. They do not believe 1 John 1:9 is necessary to be forgiven of sin (Like the true believer).

For if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive our sin. (1 John 1:9).

Jason0047 · Jun 17, 2015

As for Ecclesiastes 7:20: Here is what the verse says in the Good News Translation:

Ecclesiastes 7:20 GNT
"There is no one on earth who does what is right all the time and never makes a mistake."

In other words, this is speaking of the fact that a believer may do things that would not be classified as a sin that leads unto death. Mistakes would fall under the category of hidden or secret faults as mentioned in Psalm 19:12. This is not talking about sins that lead unto spiritual death like lying, hating, stealing, murdering, fornicating, and getting drunk, etc.

Also, this was during the time of the Old Testament, too (See Hebrews 11:40).

cmarieh · Jun 17, 2015

As Christians sin we need to ask God for forgiveness of those sins. No matter what we have done, if we ask God to forgive us, he will; and He will cleanse us from our sins by his Blood. We should never sweep our sins under the carpet. Instead we need to confess our sins because it makes no point to try to hide them because he already knows, but we still need to ask for a release from the sin.

I think of a car. If you are anything like me I drive my car everywhere because I live in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, you put a full tank of gas in it and proceed to drive it everywhere whether to the grocery store to work and back home again. Lets just say your temperature gauge says the engine temp is too high, should you pull over and allow it to cool down and call AAA or keep driving it? I would hope that you would pull it off to the side of the road because if you don't you risk blowing your engine. I think of our faith the same way, if we don't give God the priority in our life and allow God to forgive us of our sins we blow our relationship with God and I don't know about anyone else, but I want to forgive others and I want to be forgiven when I do something wrong and so I call and ask him to forgive me. Do we deserve the forgiveness? No way, we don't deserve anything God has ever given us, but because of grace and love we have every opportunity in our life to make things good again and be able to be forever in his presence and that is one great place to be as I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

I hope this all made sense if not please forgive me

Jason0047 · Jun 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

In addition, I want to mention that there are two different types of sins. 1 John 5:16-18 talks about:

(a) Sins that lead unto death.
(b) Sins that do not lead unto death.

Sins unto death are obviously those sins listed by Paul and John as warnings to believers. Paul says they that do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God and then tells the brethren not to be deceived in regards to that matter. In Revelation 21:8, John lists certain sins and says that those that do those particular sins will face the Second DEATH, i.e. the Lake of Fire (Such sins would be lying, stealing, murdering, hating, fornicating, and getting drunk, etc.).

Sins that do not lead unto death would be sins that would not cause one to spiritually die. They are what Psalm 19:12 calls hidden or secret faults or errors. For him to knoweth to do good and he does it not, to him it is sin (James 4:17). In other words, it would be like someone knowing they should have helped that old lady accross the street but they chose not to do so. It would be breaking the traffic laws trying to get your wife to the hospital because she is pregnant, etc.

For not all sin is the same. Jesus even mentions how there is a.... "GREATER sin." (John 19:11).

Anyways, if a person were to read Ecclesiastes chapter 7 (and be honest with themselves in what it says as a whole), they could see that it is talking about errors or faults and not about serious sin that would cause one to not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Jason0047 · Jun 17, 2015

cmarieh said:

As Christians sin we need to ask God for forgiveness of those sins. No matter what we have done, if we ask God to forgive us, he will; and He will cleanse us from our sins by his Blood. We should never sweep our sins under the carpet. Instead we need to confess our sins because it makes no point to try to hide them because he already knows, but we still need to ask for a release from the sin.

I think of a car. If you are anything like me I drive my car everywhere because I live in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, you put a full tank of gas in it and proceed to drive it everywhere whether to the grocery store to work and back home again. Lets just say your temperature gauge says the engine temp is too high, should you pull over and allow it to cool down and call AAA or keep driving it? I would hope that you would pull it off to the side of the road because if you don't you risk blowing your engine. I think of our faith the same way, if we don't give God the priority in our life and allow God to forgive us of our sins we blow our relationship with God and I don't know about anyone else, but I want to forgive others and I want to be forgiven when I do something wrong and so I call and ask him to forgive me. Do we deserve the forgiveness? No way, we don't deserve anything God has ever given us, but because of grace and love we have every opportunity in our life to make things good again and be able to be forever in his presence and that is one great place to be as I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

I hope this all made sense if not please forgive me

I agree Cmarieh. Well said.

May God bless you.

posthuman · Jun 17, 2015

je1979 said:

Jason0047 said:

like this -

I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, here am I.'
(Isaiah 65:1)

the Lord has done a new thing, will you believe it? (Isaiah 43:16-21, Romans 10:17-21)
our goodness is not our own; our understanding is not our own; our righteousness is not our own; our justification is not our own.
all these things are accounted to us through Christ by faith, and worked in us by Him according to His grace.
who can answer a call that has not been called? He made the ear that hears.

so who can understand except God open their eyes? who can seek God unless He reveal Himself to them? who can come to Him unless the Father draws them?
so no one can boast, except to say "i have been known of Him, and He has shown me mercy, and I have known Him" (Jeremiah 9:24, 1 Corinthians 1:31, 2 Corinthians 10:17)

psychomom · Jun 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Hi, Jason.

do you think the fact Ecc 7:20 is in the 'Old Testament' means its truth is invalid?

what do you think of the same sentiment echoed in Prov 20:9 and Rom 3:23?

psychomom · Jun 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:

as it is written,
“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; (Rom 3:10-11)

this could be way off the mark, but notice the words:
none who understands refers to the mind,
none who seeks refers to the will...

unless God does the work of regenerating a man, he is blind and without ability to know Him.

the whole chapter speaks to this.

None Good...No Not One!

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