None Good...No Not One!

[eternally-gratefull]

Who does He tell to depart from Him?

Those who continue to live in sin. What does the Bible call those who can't cease from sin? Cursed Children.Tell me, Do you think you can cease from sin, or are you one of those who can't cease from sin?

lol. Nice try,

People who continue in sin do not do works for God. they want nothing to do with God, they will not even go to church, or if they do they stand off, and do not talk much because their sin causes them guilt and shame (I know I have seen it) so no, he is not talking to licentious people. he is talking to religious people like you. who will go to God and lay all your mighty works on the judgment table and say here Jesus,, here is why I deserve salvation.

You also ignored the fact jesus said HE NEVER KNEW THEM. So how could they ever have been saved? Did Jesus lie? If as you are using this passage, he had a personal relationship with them for a time when they were saved, but lost it when they fell to sin, then jesus lied here, because HE DID KNOW THEM FOR A TIME!

i hope your joking here. Here is a question for you, but i think not likely you will answer it. Those in the above parable who call the Jesus "LORD" and prophesied in Jesus Name, and in the name of Jesus cast out demons, which by the way is one of the signs that shall follow them that believe in Jesus, and they did many wonderful works such as miracle and the such, can you tell me if these that done all these things in the name of Jesus THOUGHT they were SAVED? Answer if you will.

Why don't you answer. Jesus said I NEVER KNEW YOU, So they were never saved, but as you say, they do all these things in jesus name, would this not mean they THOUGHT THEY WERE SAVED?

i assure you they thought they were SAVED, They prophesied in Jesus Name, have we prophesied in Jesus Name? They cast out demons in the name of Jesus, Have we cast out demons in the name of Jesus. They also did many not just a few, but many wonderful works, Have we done wonderful works? These who have done more than we have in the name of Jesus Christ are REJECTED by Christ Himself, and why are they rejected? Because they chose to continue to live in sin. i assure you these THOUGHT they were SAVED and Heaven bound, i mean the very questions they ask Jesus tells you they were baffled as to the reason why they were rejected. "Have we not ... Have we not .... Have we not ......" They THOUGHT they were Heaven bound, and yet they were rejected by Christ and rejected because of their sinning.
What is so ironic to me though, is these above in that parable do more in the name of Jesus than Christians of this generation do for Jesus, and they were rejected. YET this generation who don't even do what they who were rejected had done, claim they are still going to Heaven.

1. They CLAIMED to prophesy, THEY CLAIMED to cast out demons, THEY CLAIMED to do all these might works. Nothing in the passage said they did. I see people claim to do these things all the time, they think they are saved, but they are frauds, I can see them standing in front of Jesus saying these very things, and jesus telling them to leave
2. They DID those things to EARN salvation, that is WHY they were laying these great works (in their mind) at the feet of jesus before judgment was ever read. A true child of God will understand his fate, and would not go in front of him and start puffing up themselves of all the things they did, They would fall on their faces begging for god to have mercy on them (A fact I guess you can not fathom, because you think you earn salvation by your works and can not see how sinfull you are?
3. Again, your total argument is destroyed by Jesus words. I NEVER KNEW YOU. they were never saved, end of story.

Not to make you upset, that is not my intention, but you really need to read the Word of God more. Read about those who are grafted into Jesus, only to be removed and burned. Or the Scriptures that teach those who are grafted into the good olive tree should be careful else they may be removed (FROM HIM) like the Israelites were removed. You know the branches being grafted in. This is the one of MANY verses which came to the top of my head there are many others.

Actually you need to look deep inside your heart. and re-read this conversation and see what you just did.

1. Jesus just declared he never knew people who went to him boasting of all their works
2. You, Instead of seeing what jesus actually did) side stepped the issue and went to a passage where God is talking about cutting a nation of people off, and grafing a group of people in (israel vs gentile) to prove the point that God can cut AN INDIVIDUAL OFF which was not even the context of the passage in question.
3. I NEVER KNEW YOU. these are jesus words, there is no argument.

lol, You only say Jesus would be lying because you are thinking about the Belief OSAS. i mean if OSAS is True, then Jesus kicks someone out of His family then He would be lying right? Right, IF OSAS is True. But as i continually say OSAS is not TRUE. JESUS does not teach that, Jesus teaches that we are grafted into the good tree (HIM) and He also say we can be removed from it, You really need to study the Word of God, Even the parable about being grafted into the Good Tree proves OSAS is false. We get SAVED we are in the Good olive Tree, We are in Jesus, but Jesus said the branches can be removed, and so it is True, what once was a part of the Good Tree (Jesus) can be removed from that Good Tree, as Scriptures plainly teach.

No actually it is the other way around, your so desperate to make your works based Gospel of self believable you will not listen to the very words jesus said, will twist his words around, or side step the issue.

All I am doing is taking Jesus at face value (I NEVER KNEW YOU) the greek word here is an intimate knowledge, the type of Knowledge God only has with his children. Jesus declared once and for all for all the world to see, I NEVER KNEW YOU. Again, end of debate, because there is no debate.

Oh now i see, your interpretation of that verse, which means nothing about what the verse actually says, but your interpretation of that verse supports your OSAS belief. i get it now, and even how you are seeing it, the problem is, your interpretation is in error. Read the passages again, they were NOT denied by Christ because of what the good works that they did, they were denied by Christ because of their sins, NOT the good works they did. What do you think it is sinful to cast out demons? IS that not one of the signs that follows those that believe? Yes it is, so that is a Good work they did, that is not sinful. The wonderful works they did was not sinful either, they are good works, they prophesied in His Name, is that evil? NO that also is a good work, yet they who have done all these good things, were still rejected by Christ, they were not rejected by Christ because of the good works like you are indicating, they were plainly rejected by Christ because of their sinning. True they were bewildered as to the reason why they were rejected when they did so many good things in the name of Jesus Christ, they even called Jesus "Lord" is it not written in the Word of God That no person can call Jesus "Lord" except by the Holy Ghost? Yes, that is written. So these who called Jesus "LORD" and also had many good works they did in the name of Jesus Christ were still rejected by Him, Now you say He rejected them because of their good works. . .. sigh....
But the Jesus is clear why these people who claimed to be Christians were rejected, CLEAR. Because of their sinning, NOT as you say, not because of their many good works, not because they were boasting of their good works, not because they thought works saved them. Jesus Christ plainly told us why these Christians were rejected, because they lived in sin.

See there you go with your one sided thinking again.

If a person was NEVER SAVED, then could they do righteous deeds? or would not these righteous deeds be deemed as bloody rags (sin) because they are caral works? Is not working to gain something a carnal deed? and is this not declared sin?

See your focused on sin, and since you can not see your sin, only your good deeds, you can not see the truth.

again, JESUS SAID I NEVER KNEW YOU. end of debate because there is no debate. Jesus said it, Believe it, or reject it, the rest is up to you.

Who is telling you these lies? and worse why are you believing them? The Church i belong to is not a building, is not a denomination, i belong to the Church that is going to be Raptured, that is the Church where every member of that Church LOVES ONE ANOTHER. And if you knew the Scriptures, you would understand that it is not a Church that has told me i am not allowed to interpret, but it is the Word of God itself that teaches interpretations belong to God, word for word. Therefore if interpretation belong to God, then men should not do so, yes? The Word of God teaches that.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

TELL me, is this verse TRUE or FALSE? According to this verse, Holy Inspired Verse, Who gets to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven? Answer is: Those who do the will of the Father in Heaven. TELL, me is it the Fathers will in Heaven that we LOVE ONE ANOTHER? Yes or No? Is it the Fathers Will that we obey His Son Jesus Christ?
Now answer me this, if you are SAVED, and do NOT do the Fathers will, are you still going to Heaven, making this verse void and null if you say "Yes". Let the Word of God be True and what people teach lies and falseness.

1. Those who are his children DO HIS WILL
2 Those who were never saved, the ones Jesus will declare he NEVER KNEW can ACT LIKE they do his will. but they can not do his will, because they have never entered into a personal relationship with Jesus where Jesus actually KNOWS THEM. all they have to offer is BLOODY RAGS
3. It is not what we do that saves us, it is what Christ did that saves us, Your so stuck on what you do. you can not possibly have any faith in WHAT CHRIST DID.

So go ahead and believe OSAS and do not do the will of the Father in Heaven and see if His Word holds True or if your belief will hold true.

strawman, A person who is born of God does his will. your argument that they would never do his will is non seqular argiment, John said those born of God does his will (do not continue in sin) because they have been born of God. your argument is against yourself. because it is baseless.

Let me ask you another question that is like the others and is not likely to be answered by those who believe OSAS. If the Bible says and teaches that only those who do the Fathers will enter into Heaven, Does that mean when a person gets SAVED, and they are sanctified, they are sealed, they are justified, that it is impossible for that person NOT to do the will of the Father in everything they choose to do? i only ask that because is OSAS is True, then Once i am saved, everything i do is the will of the Father, because i can't possibly not go to Heaven, i am sealed, i am sanctified. Therefore everything i do no matter how evil it is or even how good it is, doesn't matter i am doing the Fathers will therefore will enter into Heaven.

Again proof you do not comprehend what TRUE SAVING FAITH means. You act as if a child of God thinks, wow, I am saved, I can do whatever I want, Yes I believe jesus said this is sin, but it is so fun, and gives me great joy. so I am going to do it, why not. I am saved!

You need to study Jude, these people who turn the grace of God to licentiousness, whose fate was forordained (hell)

and you need to study what true faith is, No one has faith in someone else. then ignore everything they say, They not only want to do his will, but want to learn more about him, but they HAVE TO LEARN, this takes GROWING PAINs, it takes FALLING DOWN AND SCRAPING YOUR KNEES,

God Forbid. If the Word of God teaches only those who do the Fathers will will enter into Heaven, i assure you with no doubts whatsoever that ONLY those who do the Fathers will are going to make into Heaven, and it does not matter what you say with your mouth, or what you believe is the Truth. ONLY those who do the Father will, will be accepted into Heaven, and this is His Will, don't believe me, believe the Word of God.

1Jn 3:23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as He gave us commandment.

Anyone who claims to be SAVED, and does NOT Love One Another, is NOT doing the Fathers will and will not enter into Heaven, no matter how sealed you think you are, or how sanctified you think you are. Scriptures are True, and what people teach are false doctrines.

^i^ Responding to Post # 944

I agree with you here, But not everyone who claims to love one another is saved, that is where we differ, if your loving one another hoping God will save you because you do that (or on the flip side, hoping God will not remove your salvation if you stop loving) you are loving out of a carnal nature, and not loving out of a GODLY nature (I LOVE BECAUSE GOD FIRST LOVED ME) and to you it is sin.

that is where the legalist like you and the secure person like me differ.

I LOVE because God saved my eternal life, and shared his love with me

Your loving because you think it will save you, or keep you from losing your salvation.

then of course we have the licenteous, who will never love no matter if he claims to believe in God and be a christian or not. Again read Jude, for Jude answers us about these people.

 

[Sirk]

" The heart is the most deceitful thing there is and desperately wicked. No one can really know how bad it is! Only the Lord knows. He searches all hearts and examines the deepest motives so he can give to each person his right reward, according to his deeds-how he has lived" Jeremiah 17:9-10

 

[Reborn]

It would only be an insult if the statement is NOT True, But if the Statement is True, and many Scriptures confirms it to be TRUE, then it is not an insult but a TRUTH.



True, everyone has free will to choose to believe the Truth or reject it.



And yet Scriptures plainly gives us an example of Him doing just that, ACTS 5. And is it not written the Holy Ghost is given to them that obey Him? yes it is. You see i do not believe the HOLY Spirit is given and taken away. i believe the Scriptures which plainly teach the Holy Ghost is given to those who OBEY JESUS. Therefore many who are SAVED, believing all the false doctrines of today DO NOT HAVE THE HOLY GHOST.

The Bible is Clear on what the gifts of the HOLY GHOST are, Do you see the thousands of Christians exhibiting any of these gifts of the Holy Ghost? Why is that? Maybe because they do NOT OBEY JESUS, and never have, and therefore DO NOT HAVE THE HOLY GHOST, even though they claim to be Christians. Isn't it written:

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Seems to me, if every Christian indeed had the HOLY GHOST living in them, then why are these things not being seen all over the place. Why are so many NOT recovering? Maybe all those who claim to be Christian don't have the HOLY Ghost in them, because :

Act_5:32 And we are His witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.

Who gets the the HOLY GHOST according to this verse? Those who OBEY Him.

The Holy Ghost is not stupid, it knows the hearts of those who DESIRE to OBEY HIM, She does not enter into those who continue to live in sins. And if the Holy Spirit does enter into someone because they at the first do OBEY HIM, but then choose to disobey Him on a regular basis, which grieves the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in that person, The Spirit will only take so much of it. And when that person has a reprobate mind, it will depart or remain dormant in such an one.



if i were to say such a thing, i would be lying, and no liar shall enter into Heaven. i have the Holy Spirit of God living in me, and there was a time that i believed OSAS full heartedly, but it was the Spirit of Truth living in me, that every time i read a verse that was contrary to that belief, the Spirit of Truth would convict me of it. Like when i read a person can be blotted out of the Book of LIFE, WHAT!!!!!! How????? i mean if i am saved and written in the Book of Life, why is there a verse that says a persons name can be removed. The Spirit of Truth, would tell me to search the Scriptures, so i would search the Scriptures on any reference to the Book of life, and surprisingly there are MANY verses which talk about being removed from it, wow, lets just ignore that verse for a while and i continued to believe OSAS then i came across another verse, then another, then another, and yet many others verses, something is wrong with OSAS when that belief contradicts MANY, and i say Many verses in the Scriptures, i found myself ignoring, or making void, or interpreting away ALL those Many verse to hold on to the belief of OSAS, until one day i realized what i was doing, i was changing the Scriptures to fit my belief, instead of letting the Scriptures change my belief. i had to give up the belief of OSAS because of a TRUTH it does NOT line up with Scriptures, really not at all. But YES a person can believe OSAS and have the HOLY GHOST, matters of fact, Those who believe OSAS and don't have the help of the HOLY Ghost will never come to the Truth concerning OSAS. How easy would it be to get to HEAVEN believing in OSAS? Super Easy. i know, i believed it 100% back when i was an adolescent. But after reading the entire Bible more then 80 times in my life, i have found the narrow and difficult road that only a very few will find, But here is the Great News, i am telling all that will listen where to find that path.



i hear ya, i am not fond of them either, however because i Love Everyone, i will try to help those who continue to have circular arguments with me.



Sorry for what? i do not recall you saying anything to me to offend me in any way.

^i^ Responding to Post # 941

Thanks for the reply, Dave.
I agree with some of this. I think your side just despises and believes that our side uses the word "saved" too fast and freely.
I have yet to see you guys show me a verse where it talks about multiple baptisms of the Holy Spirit.
That leaves us with "they must have never had it, in the first place?"

All l know is God searches the hearts and the minds.........not me.
What else can l say.


Be well.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

Who does He tell to depart from Him?

Those who continue to live in sin. What does the Bible call those who can't cease from sin? Cursed Children.Tell me, Do you think you can cease from sin, or are you one of those who can't cease from sin?

lol. Nice try,

People who continue in sin do not do works for God. they want nothing to do with God, they will not even go to church, or if they do they stand off, and do not talk much because their sin causes them guilt and shame (I know I have seen it) so no, he is not talking to licentious people. he is talking to religious people like you. who will go to God and lay all your mighty works on the judgment table and say here Jesus,, here is why I deserve salvation.

You are still not hearing me and what i say. You say that i will lay all my mighty works on the Jugdment table and say here Jesus, here is why I deserve Salvation, Who is filling your mind with these lies. Have i said anywhere at all that works can make someone Saved? No. Have i said any where in any of my posts that a person DESERVES SALVATION? NO. Have i said any where that one can EARN their Salvation, yet in your mind that is all i teach, that is what i believe, and therefore you refute me, and debate with me concerning something you think i believe, You are not listening to me, you have it in your mind that i believe Earning Salvation by works, and you will not remove that thought from you mind, even when i over and over again tell you that is NOT what i believe. If you can't receive the Truth of this, how can you receive the TRUTH of more important things?

i tell you the Truth that NO Works can Save a person, NO amount of Good Deeds will grant Eternal Salvation to anyone. Are you incapable of understanding that simple Truth? Just wandering because i say the same thing over and over again to you, but you are not listening and then accuse me of the thoughts in your head concerning what i believe, even though i plainly tell you what i believe but you do not hear it.

i plainly teach over and over again. That no amount of works can SAVE a person. And i also teach, that once a person accepts the Free Gift of Salvation then they are to LOVE ONE ANOTHER as Jesus Christ who they accepted as their Lord and Savior Commands them to do. So then to Get Saved requires NO Works at all, But once you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, you WILL Love One Another.

^i^ Responding to Post #1001

 

[DiscipleDave]

i hope your joking here. Here is a question for you, but i think not likely you will answer it. Those in the above parable who call the Jesus "LORD" and prophesied in Jesus Name, and in the name of Jesus cast out demons, which by the way is one of the signs that shall follow them that believe in Jesus, and they did many wonderful works such as miracle and the such, can you tell me if these that done all these things in the name of Jesus THOUGHT they were SAVED? Answer if you will.

Why don't you answer. Jesus said I NEVER KNEW YOU, So they were never saved, but as you say, they do all these things in jesus name, would this not mean they THOUGHT THEY WERE SAVED?

And i see you did not answer the question. Those is the parable who were bewildered as to why they are being rejected, were confused that Jesus rejected them, when they have done so many things in the name of Jesus. In Jesus name they did many things, they even called Jesus LORD, so they were indeed believers of Jesus. Jesus declared He did not know them, and the verse plainly tells us WHY He said He did not know them, and it was because they practiced sin. So then even though they believe in Jesus calling Him "Lord" and did do many things in His name, it is because of their practice sinning that they are rejected by Jesus Christ, they call Him "Lord" and do not do what He commanded them to do. Which the verse that says:

Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of sin.

Didn't Jesus Christ say this as well

Joh_8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

WOW, Jesus Himself plainly teaches that WHOEVER committeth (Knowingly and willingly) sins is a servant of sin. Is He speaking Truly here? Yes He is.

You are so against works, that a verse came to me by the Holy Ghost to ask you about. You say "Believing is enough" But explain to all of us here these words of Jesus

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

If Works are not required as you plainly teach, why is Jesus Christ plainly telling us that those who Truly believe in Him WILL have WORKS, exactly as i teach as well. Explain why Our Lord and Savior just said those who believe in Him WILL have Works, when you do not believe that, and teach you don't need to have any works at all.

A few verses down He plainly teaches.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

So then if a person Truly Loves Jesus, they will DO what He commands, they will LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as He commands. And if they are LOVING ONE ANOTHER, they will have many Good Works, NOT that those works will Save them, but they WILL have the Works because they ARE SAVED, they LOVE JESUS, these Keep His Commandments, These obey Him.

^i^ Responding to Post #1001

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

Not to make you upset, that is not my intention, but you really need to read the Word of God more. Read about those who are grafted into Jesus, only to be removed and burned. Or the Scriptures that teach those who are grafted into the good olive tree should be careful else they may be removed (FROM HIM) like the Israelites were removed. You know the branches being grafted in. This is the one of MANY verses which came to the top of my head there are many others.

Actually you need to look deep inside your heart. and re-read this conversation and see what you just did.

1. Jesus just declared he never knew people who went to him boasting of all their works

For some reason you have it in your head they were boasting and that is the reason Jesus is rejecting them, which there is nothing in the verses to indicate they were boasting of their good works, that is what you and the others interpret that verse to mean, because what it says is contrary to what you believe, therefore you MUST interpret that verse to mean they were boasting about their good deeds, that is why they were rejected, and Jesus did not reject them because of their sins, but He rejected them because of their boasting, is that right? Change the verse and what it plainly says to fit what you yourself believes.

Anyone who reads those verses Truly can see they were rejected by Jesus and they did not understand why they were rejected, they were not boasting, they were defending themselves. Saying "But Lord why are you rejecting us, we have done so many things in YOUR name, why are you rejecting us? Were we not SAVED, did we not do many things in YOUR NAME, well just yesterday I healed a person from cancer in YOUR NAME, and yet you are rejecting me, Did I not have the Holy Ghost, Am I not SAVED, Why are you rejecting me?" Now pay attention what Jesus Christ plainly says, He DOES NOT say because you are boasting of your good works, HE does NOT say they are rejected because they did so many things in Jesus Name, What does Jesus plainly say, which you are not comprehending at all? He rejected them because they practiced sin. Now you interpret those sins to be their boasting of their good works, you interpret that way because it lines up with your OSAS doctrine. But even if that was there sin, Let us assume for a moment that their BOASTING was the sin, and that is why Jesus rejected them, because of the boasting of their good works. Are you then saying, that those who are SAVED if they BOAST they are then rejected by Jesus Christ, because they are Boasting? Or are you now going to say that the sin was them casting out Demons in Jesus Name. Or the sin was all the wonderful works they did in the name of Jesus?
You plainly said it was their boasting of their works that is why Jesus rejected them. So then those who claim to be SAVED, if they boast of ANY Good work they have done in the name of Jesus Christ, are they too rejected by Christ because they boasted of the good deed they did in the name of Jesus Christ? That is what you are saying. Because they boasted about their good works they did in the name of Jesus, they are rejected by Jesus. i though those who believe OSAS could not lose their Salvation, But apparently according to you, if you boast of your good works, then you can be rejected by Jesus Christ. Because you interpret that verse to mean they were rejected by Jesus because of boasting of their Works. And i know your thinking, that thinks, they were rejected because they thought that good works SAVED them, which thinking is ADDED to the verse, because there is nothing in the verse that indicates they though good works SAVED them, nothing at all. But if you read the verse plainly and clearly, you will understand, they DID DO those things, we know they DID DO them because they say "Have we not done this? Have we not done that?" They did those things in the name of Jesus, but were still rejected by Him, because they continued to live in sins, despite what they did in the name of Jesus.

2. You, Instead of seeing what jesus actually did) side stepped the issue and went to a passage where God is talking about cutting a nation of people off, and grafing a group of people in (israel vs gentile) to prove the point that God can cut AN INDIVIDUAL OFF which was not even the context of the passage in question.

But is a reply to what you said, that a person can't be cut off, that once you accept Jesus He is not going to kick you out of His Family, to which then i showed you Scriptures which PROVE that thinking to be incorrect, that Jesus who accepts people into His Family (the Gentiles) can indeed be kicked out of that family after being accepted into the Family of Jesus. Which is the basis of OSAS belief, that Once Saved you can never be removed, kicked out, or blotted out of the Book of Life, is it not? And instead of admitting that you were wrong and changing your belief to match with Scriptures, you sidestep yourself by accusing me of sidestepping.

3. I NEVER KNEW YOU. these are jesus words, there is no argument.

Conveniently left out the WHY, did you not? No body is debating if those were rejected. We all know they were rejected by Jesus because He said " I never knew you" its is what He says immediately after that is what we are discussing "I never knew you, you that practice sinning"

So you can twist the verse all around to accuse the people in those verses of boasting, or believing Works save you and the such, but here is a Truth that is undisputable. Jesus rejected them because they continued to sin. PERIOD!! Now you can debate what sin that was, you can debate if they were boasting or what have you, you can debate as to their reasoning for saying what they said, but the TRUTH is, they were rejected by Jesus Christ because of their continual sinning. Jesus PLAINLY teach WHY they were rejected, That plain teaching is what OSAS refuses to acknowledge. They can't, because if they did, then they would be forced to understand that OSAS can't be True. If Jesus can reject "whosoever" because of living in sin, as the verse PLAINLY teaches, then OSAS can't be True, then they have to change their whole entire life, their whole entire belief system. NO not this generation, they would rather believe what they do, then to change their belief to match Scriptures and what it plainly teaches.

^i^ Responding to Post #1001

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

lol, You only say Jesus would be lying because you are thinking about the Belief OSAS. i mean if OSAS is True, then Jesus kicks someone out of His family then He would be lying right? Right, IF OSAS is True. But as i continually say OSAS is not TRUE. JESUS does not teach that, Jesus teaches that we are grafted into the good tree (HIM) and He also say we can be removed from it, You really need to study the Word of God, Even the parable about being grafted into the Good Tree proves OSAS is false. We get SAVED we are in the Good olive Tree, We are in Jesus, but Jesus said the branches can be removed, and so it is True, what once was a part of the Good Tree (Jesus) can be removed from that Good Tree, as Scriptures plainly teach.

No actually it is the other way around, your so desperate to make your works based Gospel of self believable you will not listen to the very words jesus said, will twist his words around, or side step the issue.

Again you falsely accuse me, this is not of God. you keep saying that i have a Works based Gospel, so tell me what have i said any where at all that leads you to believe that nonsense? You continually accuse me of believing or teaching a works based Gospel. And i plainly do not teach that at all, but you keep saying that i do. Has anyone heard me say anything at all about earning your Salvation, or works for one to be Saved? If you accuse me of teaching this false doctrine, then show where i have done that, so i can repent of it. YOU CAN'T SHOW, do you know why you can't because it is all in your head that i teach a Works based Gospel, and in your head only, because it is NOT what i teach, that is a false doctrine, and is NOT True. Yet you keep saying, and trying to justify your own self by believing that i do believe such a doctrine.

You say i twist His Words around, i believe His Words. Let us see who twists His Words and who does not.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Do you believe what Jesus plainly says here, that those who believe in Jesus will have works. Explain this verse to us all so we can see who it is that twists the Words of Jesus around to fit their own agenda. i teach that those who are SAVED will have Good Works, EXACTLY like Jesus Christ Himself said they would, you argue with me concerning the Good Works, will you now argue with Christ, who says the EXACT same thing? or will you have to try to interpret this verse to mean something other then it says in order to continue to believe the false doctrine of OSAS. i assure you and do not lie, and God is my witness, those who believe OSAS most assuredly have to twist the Word of God in order to hold on to that false belief. Jesus Himself said those who BELIEVE in HIM, WILL have Good Works. And before you go and falsely accuse me again, i am NOT saying Good Works Saves anyone at all, i plainly teach, so that children can understand it, that NO Works are required for one to GET SAVED, None at all. AND i also teach the Truth, that once you are SAVED, without any Works at all, Once you do believe in Jesus you will have Good Works because that is what Jesus plainly said and taught. How will you twist the above verse to fit your current belief?

All I am doing is taking Jesus at face value

Are you? Or do you pick and choose which verses you will take at face value?

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13. .... 14 ..... 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Do you take those Words of Jesus at face value? He that believeth on Jesus will have Good Works. Do you believe that or disagree with that?

All I am doing is taking Jesus at face value

(I NEVER KNEW YOU) the greek word here is an intimate knowledge, the type of Knowledge God only has with his children. Jesus declared once and for all for all the world to see, I NEVER KNEW YOU. Again, end of debate, because there is no debate.

You still think the debate is about "I NEVER KNEW YOU" What we have been discussing is the REASON by He rejected them. NOT that He rejected them, but they WHY He rejected Him.

^i^ Responding to Post #1001

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

Oh now i see, your interpretation of that verse, which means nothing about what the verse actually says, but your interpretation of that verse supports your OSAS belief. i get it now, and even how you are seeing it, the problem is, your interpretation is in error. Read the passages again, they were NOT denied by Christ because of what the good works that they did, they were denied by Christ because of their sins, NOT the good works they did. What do you think it is sinful to cast out demons? IS that not one of the signs that follows those that believe? Yes it is, so that is a Good work they did, that is not sinful. The wonderful works they did was not sinful either, they are good works, they prophesied in His Name, is that evil? NO that also is a good work, yet they who have done all these good things, were still rejected by Christ, they were not rejected by Christ because of the good works like you are indicating, they were plainly rejected by Christ because of their sinning. True they were bewildered as to the reason why they were rejected when they did so many good things in the name of Jesus Christ, they even called Jesus "Lord" is it not written in the Word of God That no person can call Jesus "Lord" except by the Holy Ghost? Yes, that is written. So these who called Jesus "LORD" and also had many good works they did in the name of Jesus Christ were still rejected by Him, Now you say He rejected them because of their good works. . .. sigh....
But the Jesus is clear why these people who claimed to be Christians were rejected, CLEAR. Because of their sinning, NOT as you say, not because of their many good works, not because they were boasting of their good works, not because they thought works saved them. Jesus Christ plainly told us why these Christians were rejected, because they lived in sin.

See there you go with your one sided thinking again.

If a person was NEVER SAVED, then could they do righteous deeds? or would not these righteous deeds be deemed as bloody rags (sin) because they are caral works? Is not working to gain something a carnal deed? and is this not declared sin?

Answer me this question. A person goes to Church and listening to the message of the preacher is convicted, and that person wants to repent of their sins and be forgiven, that person believes Jesus is the Son of God, was sacrificed for his sins, and rose on the third day, He goes up at the calling, he bows himself down and cries because he is lost and needs to be Saved, the preacher prays with him, and the guy repents of his sins, and he accepts Jesus into his heart. Tell me now, is that person SAVED or no? Yes or NO, is that person SAVED? Did he not do all that is required for one to GET SAVED? Is he then Saved? the answer is YES.
So why is it, those who believe OSAS will say that person is SAVED, but if that person 20 years down the road, rapes his children, kills his wife, then walks into a Church and kills many people there, that this man was never SAVED? How easy it is for those who believe OSAS to use "They were never Saved" But did that person not repent of his sins? Did He not accept Jesus Christ into his heart, Did not the Preacher plainly tell that man "You are now Saved?" i assure you with no doubts whatsoever, that all those who believe OSAS that says "They were never Saved" were indeed SAVED, why because they DID that which is required for one to be SAVED according to the Word of God. But do you know why they (OSAS crowd) can't believe that Truth, then they would be forced to see the Truth, That when a person repents of their sins, and accepts Jesus Christ into their lives and heart, and Become SAVED, And Later that same person which DID repent and accept Jesus Christ into their heart, lives in darkness and does evil wicked things, abominations to God, and hates others, is no longer SAVED. But instead of believing that Truth and changing their false belief of OSAS, they will say instead that person was never Truly Saved to begin with. But i thought Scriptures are clear, that all a person has to do to GET SAVED is to believe in Jesus and repent. If ANYONE does that, they are indeed SAVED. How can one who YOU say is SAVED become unsaved in the future saying that he never was SAVED. People do you not see and understand the error in thinking concerning OSAS?

Tell me Truly, if an unsaved person comes up to you, and you tell him about Jesus, and then that man believes Jesus and what He did, and he repents of his sins right in front of you, he falls down on his face and prays for forgiveness from Jesus, Is that man SAVED or not? Seriously answer, Is that man SAVED or not saved according to the Word of God.

Now 30 years later this same man who you told was SAVED, walks into a Church and kills everyone, are you now going to say "He was never Truly Saved?" Isn't to be Truly SAVED all that one has to do is believe in Jesus and repent? YES, did that man who you are now saying was not Truly SAVED, did exactly that? How was the man not Truly SAVED? Do you see how you have to believe that He was not Truly SAVED, because if he were Truly SAVED, then you would have to see the Truth, that just because a person GETS SAVED (Believe in Jesus and repent) does not mean they will enter into Heaven, or remain in that Condition. Its just simply not Truth.

See your focused on sin, and since you can not see your sin, only your good deeds, you can not see the truth.

who is telling you these things. We are not discussing my sin, or my not sinning at all, we are not talking about my good deeds or my lack of good deeds, we are not discussing me at all. We are discussing Scriptures. You say i am focused on sin, and only my good deeds. Who is telling you these things?

again, JESUS SAID I NEVER KNEW YOU. end of debate because there is no debate. Jesus said it, Believe it, or reject it, the rest is up to you.

Who is side stepping now? We are debating about the Reason WHY they were rejected, NOT that they were rejected. i know they were rejected, no debate there with me concerning that. We are talking about the REASON Why they were rejected, please try to stay on the same page. Again, you are most right there is no debate that Jesus rejected them. Now lets talk about why Jesus rejected them, and He plainly tells us He rejected them because they continued to live in sin.

... . ... . .. ..
3. It is not what we do that saves us, it is what Christ did that saves us, Your so stuck on what you do. you can not possibly have any faith in WHAT CHRIST DID.

And having ears, they do not hear. Have i not said over and over and over again. NOTHING you can do to Get SAVED. there is no works required for one to be SAVED. i know it is Christ that saves us, have i said any differently ANY WHERE? No i have not, but it is in your mind that i have, because you again and again falsely accuse me of believing the doctrine Works to be SAVED. You do error, and you do not hear me.

Christ said, those who believe in Him, will have Good Works, the Apostles teach to make sure to maintain Good Works, The Word of God states we are judged by our works. You continue to believe as you do, i will continue to believe in what the Word of God teaches, not the words of men which teach OSAS. But i have not failed to tell you and those who read this, the Truth concerning this topic. So then when you are rejected by Jesus Christ because you did not stop practicing sin, and Good Works did not follow you like they did with Jesus, then you will not be able to plead ignorance, you will have no cloak for your practice sinning.

Those who are serious about their Salvation

Php_2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Will search the Scriptures day and night to see if the things which i am saying are True or not. Or continue to believe as you do and NOT search the Scriptures, and suffer the consequences of your own actions.

^i^ Responding to Post #1001

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

So go ahead and believe OSAS and do not do the will of the Father in Heaven and see if His Word holds True or if your belief will hold true.

strawman, A person who is born of God does his will. your argument that they would never do his will is non seqular argiment, John said those born of God does his will (do not continue in sin) because they have been born of God. your argument is against yourself. because it is baseless.

If you knew the Word of God and believed OSAS you would not have brought up "Born of God"

Who are they that are Born of God, but those who believe in Jesus.

1Jn_5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

This is why i instructed you to do a study on what it means to actually believe in Jesus. Those who believe in Jesus are Born of God. What does the Bible say about those who are Born of God?

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Does the wicked one touch you? i assure you if you are tempted by him and DO knowingly and willingly commit that sin, he HAS touched you.

1Jn_5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Overcometh the WORLD, this generation can't even overcome the sins that so easily besets them, let alone overcoming the World.

1Jn_4:7 Beloved, let us LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

So those who Believe in Jesus are Born of God, those who are Born of God LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Do i teach these things, or does Scriptures plainly teach them. If a person DOES Love one another, they will have plenty of Works, because how can you LOVE ONE ANOTHER and not have plenty of good works? Do those Good Works Save You. Heavens no. You are Saved by Grace, through believing in Jesus Christ and repenting of your past sin, that is how one is SAVED, But according to Scriptures once you are SAVED, make sure to maintain good works, Once you are SAVED the works that Jesus did, you will do also, and He did many good works. Jesus your Savior and Lord commands you to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, so i don't care what you believe is the Truth, i don't care what you say with your mouth or what you confess. Those who LOVE ONE ANOTHER have Jesus inside of them, Those who do NOT Love One Another, do not have Jesus inside of them, no matter how much they think they have Jesus inside of them, they will be rejected by Him, because they fail to LOVE ONE ANOTHER as He commands them to do.

^i^ Responding to Post #1001

 

[DiscipleDave]

Again proof you do not comprehend what TRUE SAVING FAITH means. You act as if a child of God thinks, wow, I am saved, I can do whatever I want, Yes I believe jesus said this is sin, but it is so fun, and gives me great joy. so I am going to do it, why not. I am saved!

You are on confusing person to me, you claim to believe OSAS then say what you said above. That whole statement you just said to me, is what i say to those who believe OSAS. Do not the OSAS say and teach they can never lose their salvation? Does that mean no matter what they do, sinful or not, they still can't lose it. Don't all those who choose to sin, enjoy to do so? Do not those who believe OSAS when they are tempted to commit sin, do it anyways because they know they can't lose their Salvation because they choose to commit sins? i mean if your Truly SAVED, and can't possibly lose it, then it doesn't matter what you do, right? So you might as well go ahead and commit those sins when satan tempts you, because you can't lose your Salvation, so do what you want, do evil, do good, it doesn't matter, because to you believing is enough, NOTHING else is required. God forbid.

^i^ Responding to Post #1001

 

[DiscipleDave]

I agree with you here, But not everyone who claims to love one another is saved, that is where we differ, if your loving one another hoping God will save you because you do that (or on the flip side, hoping God will not remove your salvation if you stop loving) you are loving out of a carnal nature, and not loving out of a GODLY nature (I LOVE BECAUSE GOD FIRST LOVED ME) and to you it is sin.

We differ because i teach if a SAVED person LOVES ONE ANOTHER, they will have many good works. You do not agree with that, because you think by me saying that i am endorsing the false doctrine Works for Salvation, which i have NEVER done, but is only in your mind that i believe that and teach that. When a person stops loving others, is when Jesus is no longer in that person, no matter what they say with their mouths. Anyone who LOVES OTHERS will have many good Works. The Works that Jesus did, these will do also. Those who cease to have Good Works, cease to LOVE OTHERS. Now i can see that happening if a person got stranded on a deserted island with no souls there to Love, but other than that, if anyone ceases to LOVE OTHERS they cease to have Jesus. For Jesus is LOVE.

that is where the legalist like you and the secure person like me differ.

Are you now calling me legalist? What for. Because i take at face value the Words of Jesus, because i believe the Scriptures as a child, because i believe the Word of God and what it plainly teaches, instead of trying to interpret the Word of God, as if i am somehow special to be able to interpret the Word of God. If believing the Scriptures and what they plainly teach makes me legalistic, then i am so. And God loves me for it.

And about your statement of you being secured. i will tell you the Truth. All those who are rejected by Christ on that mournful day when He returns, and they will be weeping and gnashing their teeth, THOUGHT they were secured. Tell me, why do you think they are weeping and gnashing their teeth? Because they thought they were going to get to go to Heaven with Jesus and were rejected. so they weep and gnash their teeth. they too thought they were secured.

I LOVE because God saved my eternal life, and shared his love with me

If you Do LOVE, then you would have many works, yes? You say you LOVE, tell me HOW do you LOVE OTHERS, and then tell me how those things that you DO for others because you LOVE them, is not works?

Your loving because you think it will save you, or keep you from losing your salvation.

Again, who is putting these lies into your head? i will pray for you this night, that the one who is talking with thee depart from thee, because whoever it is, is feeding you all kinds of lies and falseness.

i have never said, or implied that my LOVING is what SAVES me, that is what you falsely accuse me of doing.

i am Loving not to SAVE me, not to keep me from losing my Salvation, like you falsely accuse me. i LOVE because He is in me, and He commands me to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, i do not LOVE Others because i have to, i LOVE OTHERS because He lives in me, and it is my desire to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Anyone who Truly has Jesus (LOVE) living in them, will LOVE ONE ANOTHER, not because they have to, but because JESUS who is LOVE, lives in them, and they in Him, and the Father in them. The problem is this, and is what i teach. Those who claim to be SAVED and DO not have LOVE FOR OTHERS. These believe some kind of doctrine that is false that teaches them they do not need to LOVE OTHERS, that they are just fine and Heaven bound, even though they DO NOT love others..
NO Works can Save you. Salvation is freely given to anyone who will reject it. But Once Saved, Christians are commanded to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, Those who Truly Love Jesus will indeed obey Him, and these will LOVE ONE ANOTHER, NOT because it is a commandment, but because Jesus lives in them and that is what they desire to do. And if anyone Truly LOVES ONE ANOTHER, they will have many good works, because they LOVE MUCH. But who unto them who think they have Eternal Salvation and do not obey Jesus, to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, these all will be weeping and gnashing their teeth when they are rejected by Jesus when He Returns. Lo, i have told you the Truth, do with it as you will.

then of course we have the licenteous, who will never love no matter if he claims to believe in God and be a christian or not. Again read Jude, for Jude answers us about these people.

Not Jude only, the Entire Bible teaches us what will happen to those who do NOT LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

^i^ Responding to Post #1001

 

[mwc68]

I agree with you here, But not everyone who claims to love one another is saved, that is where we differ, if your loving one another hoping God will save you because you do that (or on the flip side, hoping God will not remove your salvation if you stop loving) you are loving out of a carnal nature, and not loving out of a GODLY nature (I LOVE BECAUSE GOD FIRST LOVED ME) and to you it is sin.

We differ because i teach if a SAVED person LOVES ONE ANOTHER, they will have many good works. You do not agree with that, because you think by me saying that i am endorsing the false doctrine Works for Salvation, which i have NEVER done, but is only in your mind that i believe that and teach that. When a person stops loving others, is when Jesus is no longer in that person, no matter what they say with their mouths. Anyone who LOVES OTHERS will have many good Works. The Works that Jesus did, these will do also. Those who cease to have Good Works, cease to LOVE OTHERS. Now i can see that happening if a person got stranded on a deserted island with no souls there to Love, but other than that, if anyone ceases to LOVE OTHERS they cease to have Jesus. For Jesus is LOVE.



Are you now calling me legalist? What for. Because i take at face value the Words of Jesus, because i believe the Scriptures as a child, because i believe the Word of God and what it plainly teaches, instead of trying to interpret the Word of God, as if i am somehow special to be able to interpret the Word of God. If believing the Scriptures and what they plainly teach makes me legalistic, then i am so. And God loves me for it.

And about your statement of you being secured. i will tell you the Truth. All those who are rejected by Christ on that mournful day when He returns, and they will be weeping and gnashing their teeth, THOUGHT they were secured. Tell me, why do you think they are weeping and gnashing their teeth? Because they thought they were going to get to go to Heaven with Jesus and were rejected. so they weep and gnash their teeth. they too thought they were secured.



If you Do LOVE, then you would have many works, yes? You say you LOVE, tell me HOW do you LOVE OTHERS, and then tell me how those things that you DO for others because you LOVE them, is not works?




Again, who is putting these lies into your head? i will pray for you this night, that the one who is talking with thee depart from thee, because whoever it is, is feeding you all kinds of lies and falseness.

i have never said, or implied that my LOVING is what SAVES me, that is what you falsely accuse me of doing.

i am Loving not to SAVE me, not to keep me from losing my Salvation, like you falsely accuse me. i LOVE because He is in me, and He commands me to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, i do not LOVE Others because i have to, i LOVE OTHERS because He lives in me, and it is my desire to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Anyone who Truly has Jesus (LOVE) living in them, will LOVE ONE ANOTHER, not because they have to, but because JESUS who is LOVE, lives in them, and they in Him, and the Father in them. The problem is this, and is what i teach. Those who claim to be SAVED and DO not have LOVE FOR OTHERS. These believe some kind of doctrine that is false that teaches them they do not need to LOVE OTHERS, that they are just fine and Heaven bound, even though they DO NOT love others..
NO Works can Save you. Salvation is freely given to anyone who will reject it. But Once Saved, Christians are commanded to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, Those who Truly Love Jesus will indeed obey Him, and these will LOVE ONE ANOTHER, NOT because it is a commandment, but because Jesus lives in them and that is what they desire to do. And if anyone Truly LOVES ONE ANOTHER, they will have many good works, because they LOVE MUCH. But who unto them who think they have Eternal Salvation and do not obey Jesus, to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, these all will be weeping and gnashing their teeth when they are rejected by Jesus when He Returns. Lo, i have told you the Truth, do with it as you will.



Not Jude only, the Entire Bible teaches us what will happen to those who do NOT LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

^i^ Responding to Post #1001

I know atheists that know love. I see in these threads a lot that you can't love unless you have Jesus and, in my opinion that is wrong

 

[faniehennig]

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[faniehennig]

Whosoever abideth in God sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as God is righteous.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil

 

[faniehennig]

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Heb 12:14