Creflo Dollar's Jet

[FancyNancy]

Like Dr. John MacArthur has said on several occasions, "A Christian is not sinless, but as he or she matures spiritually, they will sin less, and less, and less." I my opinion, anyone who THINKS he or she quit sinning, has a WHOLE LOT MORE TO LEARN ABOUT WHAT GOD CALLS SIN.

Here is the verse that SUNK my ship of pride, when I started to think that I no longer sinned:

Romans 14:23 (NIV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith;
and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

MacArthur is correct. No one here has said they never sin or are sinless. Have you misread someone?

 

[A_Friend_In_Christ]

Creflo has a boat, a jet, a mansion and a yacht and what else? And all paid for with God's money no doubt?

 

[FancyNancy]

Creflo has a boat, a jet, a mansion and a yacht and what else? And all paid for with God's money no doubt?

If that is the truth, then he paid for it all with the money he earns, just as we all buy things with money we earn. Dollar is also known to give cars and houses away to needy people.

Do you do that, too?

 

[Tankman131]

MacArthur is correct. No one here has said they never sin or are sinless. Have you misread someone?

• Joyce Meyer said she is not a sinner: "I am not poor. I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I were and if I still was then Jesus died in vain. I'm going to tell you something folks. I didn't stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn't a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that's heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I am righteous and I can't be righteous and be a sinner at the same time." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dmHJdM63hk)
  • Response: Mrs. Meyer needs a lesson in basic Bible. 1 John 1:8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Notice that John the apostle says "we." He is including himself with sinners. Also, Paul said in Rom. 7:19-20,24, "For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me...24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?" Is Joyce Meyer better in Christian character than John and Paul? I think not. Mrs. Meyer fails to recognize her own sinfulness, and so mistakenly denies her own sinfulness. I can only conclude that this false teaching comes from pride because it certainly isn't biblical.

What do you call someone who runs?
a runner
what do you call someone who lies?
a liar (or word of faith televangelist)
what do you call someone who sins?
a sinner

 

[FancyNancy]

• Joyce Meyer said she is not a sinner: "I am not poor. I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I were and if I still was then Jesus died in vain. I'm going to tell you something folks. I didn't stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn't a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that's heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I am righteous and I can't be righteous and be a sinner at the same time." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dmHJdM63hk)
  • Response: Mrs. Meyer needs a lesson in basic Bible. 1 John 1:8 says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Notice that John the apostle says "we." He is including himself with sinners. Also, Paul said in Rom. 7:19-20,24, "For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me...24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?" Is Joyce Meyer better in Christian character than John and Paul? I think not. Mrs. Meyer fails to recognize her own sinfulness, and so mistakenly denies her own sinfulness. I can only conclude that this false teaching comes from pride because it certainly isn't biblical.

What do you call someone who runs?
a runner
what do you call someone who lies?
a liar (or word of faith televangelist)
what do you call someone who sins?
a sinner

Joyce Meyer is right on the money! Anyone who has received Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord has been changed and is now a new creature and the word says he cannot sin. What does that mean, eh? It means that our spirit man is reborn and alive and God lives there and it is our spirits that are born again, made new, and become holy, pure and cannot sin. We have a whole new paradigm and a whole new identity! Sinner is gone. Saint is here!

If you want to agree with Satan and call yourself a sinner, have at it. I will agree with God. As a saint I am not condemned.

In Christ…

I am chosen by God..............................................................Eph. 1:4

I am adopted by God............................................................Eph 1:5

I am a child of God in His family ...........................................1 John 3:1

I am seated in the heavenlies in Christ………………………..........Eph 2:6

I am forgiven by God for all my sins......................................1 John 1:9

I am reconciled to God, in Harmony with Him..........................Rom 5:10

I am seen by God as holy, blameless above reproach..............Col. 1:21,22

I am sealed with God's Holy Spirit..........................................Eph 1:13

I am called to accomplish God's purpose.................................Rom 8:28,30

I am a full citizen among God's people....................................Eph 2:19

I am justified -- declared right in God's sight...........................Rom 5:1

I am sanctified -- set apart by God's Spirit...............................1 Cor 6:11

I am redeemed ---- bought with Christ's blood........................Eph. 1:7

I am cleansed by Christ's blood for all my sin.........................1 John 1:7

I am heir of God and a joint-heir with Christ...........................Rom 8:16,17

I am complete in Christ........................................................Col. 2:10

I am an ambassador for Christ..............................................2 Cor. 5:20

I am being conformed to the character of Christ......................Rom 8:29


No sinner there!


Thank you Lord, for giving me worth and letting me see I have purpose.

 

[PeterJens]

Joyce Meyer is right on the money! Anyone who has received Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord has been changed and is now a new creature and the word says he cannot sin.

Let me get the ethics right. Now we are talking ethic not I am in an emotional high light on LSD and everything is so significant and I can fly. People do this, jump off buildings and die.

I have no problem if you say a christian is a new creation, with love planted in their hearts, driven by the fruits of the Spirit.
The fruit of the spirit is righteousness. Ofcourse a christian can sin, but if they walk in the Spirit they will not.

The problem is the word is baptism in the Holy Spirit, an emotional experience of meeting the Lord or some claim a spiritual birth. A sign of this is the gifts, and because people now have this change what they do is made perfect. So experiment, have a go, and when it fails, have another go. And what is the result, no change, because the theology has thrown out righteousness, love, humbleness, truth. Bring in truth and reality beyond the show bizz, and you are condemned.

Talk about love, and the basics, and you are evil and a heretic. Anyone doing this should be worried, but it does not matter, they have the key to walk in the Spirit, though they agree it does not. In fact they openly admit 80% of the prophecy is wrong. So what about the healings, the teaching, in fact most of everything?

If it is fake, or striving after the wind, at what point do you say the emphasis is wrong? WOF, NAR, Latter Rain are just a bad experiment, but people have grown up. Nope. It is all wrong when love was not the focus, but supernatural experience.

Now as truth comes out, the dream world cannot be given up, it is the evil pharisees who are to blame, criticsm, the spiritual war being lost. I am not an enemy, if fact I should be your friend. But because the ethics are wrong I am not, you see me as the enemy.

Mysticism does not work.

 

[PeterJens]

What a convoluted mess.

Dear reader. I have been a christian 30+ years. I started by asking God for wisdom, knowing there was a power and understanding in Jesus that spoke to my heart, but I did not know where or why it spoke to me. One word changed my life, love. At each level of my experience, still there was another layer, a deeper realisation of what that word meant.

I lead a house group on love above spiritual gifts, that the core mission of the church was to heal the heart, to make whole the soul and spirit of a person. I knew of people who believed in regression therapy but that just destroyed them. I knew that opening up old wounds often made them deeper. I began to realise we are an emotional history, with learnt reactions to things that we actually use everyday, which adjust depending on experience. We sow and build this framework and it defines us. If the Lord is to mean anything, he has to address this in our hearts. Rather than open old wounds, he makes new strengths, he puts in understanding and healing, so there is not a wound but a strong place to walk, we are remade.

I wondered at the cross, the cross being lifted up, as the golden snake that brought healing to all who saw it. Could it be that the actual realisation of God made man dying for us, remade us daily within, empowered us, as an intellectual and emotional experience, not just super spiritual experience in the spirit. Now it is not possible to see this truly without the Holy Spirit, but what if the lie is to make it too religious and not personal enough. Look around your life, and ask, who do you really know, love or care about? My experience of humans is we are so defensive, and so volatile, we almost trust no one. Jesus goes beyond this, saying at His core, at the very being of God, He loves us, and is willing to do the impossible.

Does Jesus reduce you to tears? Do you sing "I live to serve you each day." "You are my sunshine."

This is the spring of living water in us, the unstoppable flow, the reason why the apostles were happy to go to their deaths praising the Lord, because he literally transcends us at all levels.

Now the reason why someone says "confused mess" because the Lord has not spoken to them at this level.

St francis prayer Make Me an Instrument of Your Peace has spoken to people for hundreds of years.

But for these guys this is not christianity. At this point we should walk away. I am talking a different language, yet I know exactly what they are saying. Mysticism does not ask what you are doing, just obedience because it is Gods work. But God is a God of order and real teaching, and confirmation of what has gone before. He does not make something new, but expands on all His previous revelation.

The Old covenant is a foreshadow of the new, it is not a change. You can find the heart of God, His love, His redemption in seeing the actual embodiment of the cross, before the cross, else Abraham, Enoch, Melkizidek could not have known God.

As I thought all those years ago, we are very lost and we want so badly to arrive, we will invent our own arrival, or reality.
And yes there is a failure in teaching, but mainly in this modern society a failure of emotional honesty and truth, because we are so terribly wealthy, we can run away from all the difficult issues.

Someone in a bretheren church said of the charismatic group, they say the same words as us, yet claim they are so different. The difference was the pure excitement at the word of God, but what it lead to was a split, and a group who did not last, but fizzled out, rather than renewed the whole. So which is it? Maybe both, but that is the task the Lord puts towards us, to let the Spirit give life to what is already there.

Now I have an agenda, like these NAR guys. The agenda is to speak to what we are, and to empower us to change through the cross, and letting love speak to who we are. This is the ministry of the Holy Spirit but it is not mysticism or some, woooo that felt good, I am soooo drunk, collapse on the floor, it is plain, I stand in front of you and say honestly I love you, without hesitation. That is the reality Jesus preached us to become, real, simple, open, honest, righteous people.
But do you believe it is possible or put it another way, do you believe Jesus?

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader,

How is it WOF people, deny they follow this way of looking at life, but the doctrines they want and the experience they hold says they must. Now I have been baptised in the Holy Spirit, I walk in the gifts, yet because I do not agree with their theology I am an enemy. How can this be? What defines a christian, faith and belief in Jesus or there "spiritual" experience.
So if you fall the floor, or feel drunk you must be right, even if you talk about angels giving wealth, or feathers falling or jewels appearing.

So is the new tactic, deny they believe the theology or heresy, but just live it out. I mean that is how God works, denying His word, and being contradictatory. It says let your "yes" be yes and your "no" be no, but where is theres.

They just want to not engage in discussion about the realities of life, because they have no answer, it is not because it makes sense or there is something to what they say, there is nothing there!!!!

 

[Tankman131]

MacArthur is correct. No one here has said they never sin or are sinless. Have you misread someone?

Joyce Meyer is right on the money! Anyone who has received Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord has been changed and is now a new creature and the word says he cannot sin.

And here we see cognitive dissonance.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Do you remember Peter Popoff, in the 80's was exposed as a fraud "WORD of KNOWLEGE", scam Artist? His Word of Knowledge, scam was a tiny fm receiver in his ear, and hidden microphone on his wife as she talked to people in the audience.

SO WHERE IS POPOFF TODAY?

He is back ON TV as of 2006 wearing lots of black hair dye; and people are back to sending their money to him.

Peter Popoff - Back To His Old Tricks

Scam Everlasting: After 25 Years, Debunked Faith Healer Still Preaching Debt Relief Scam - Business Insider

Remember hearing about that, the guy really doing a mentalist act with a plant and radio in the audience, feeding information "from the Lord" into his earpiece, supernatural revelations about those he was about to "heal." (Turns out "the Lord" was on his payroll...). It was a few years ago, but came across him on TV, again: he still had followers! Can you believe it? "There's a sucker born every minute" is almost scripture.

Here's another scumbag piece of work, shearing the sheep under the big top,

Robert Tilton

"Komo badde soto ha!" If Bob Larson is televangelism's Dennis Rodman, then Robert Tilton is its Magic Johnson. Before his unfortunate 1991 dumpster-diving accident involving ABC's Diane Sawyer, the tongues-wagging Tilton was THE definition of "over the top." According to Trinity Foundation's Rev. Ole Anthony, Tilton had ordered prayer requests sent to him thrown in the trash -- before they were even read. And he ought to know: he dug some of them from the dumpster of Tilton's Tulsa bank.

Tilton distinguished himself with his innovative response, which probably had the virtue of never having been tried. Adamantly denying PrimeTime Live's accusations, he even went so far as to claim that the prayer requests were planted in the dumpster, and that he had prayed over them so hard that the ink on the requests had invaded his bloodstream, causing several small strokes. The treatment: plastic surgery to fix the bags under his eyes.

http://home.earthlink.net/~19ranger57/halosham.htm

I saw this Bozo, Tilton, tear chunks out of a Bible and go on to say it's only paper, the only thing holy about it the $7 it cost to buy it.

 

[Chica]

Romans 6.1-14

6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. [SUP]6 [/SUP]We know that our old self[SUP][a][/SUP] was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For one who has died has been set free[SUP][b][/SUP] from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. [SUP]9 [/SUP]We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Do you deny that Paul spoke about the struggle with his two natures and his carnal side?

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it,..............but sin that dwelleth in me. Romans 7:19,20

(v.22) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

(v.23) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Chica]

I don't just think it---I know I am empowered by Holy Spirit because I have been made righteous by the blood of Jesus which wiped away my sin. The bible tells us this. You should understand this.

You and a little cliquey group here are the one railing against groups and putting down people as if they are dirt under your feet. Not very Christ-like, I must say.

Nancy we're not the only ones that doubt the claims of the WoF ministers:

Benn Hinn’s 2 Min Blessing

A July 2008 article by reporter Marthinus van Vuuren in news24.com, a South African News Web site, entitled 'God bless your credit card', said

One of Hinn's American guest speakers, Pastor Todd Koontz, Koontz delivered a message about "you reap what you sow", then said the service would yield millionaires and billionaires within 24 hours.

“God's blessing would last only two minutes and it would create 500 churchgoing millionaires or even billionaires - all they had to do was use their credit cards to pay $1000 in offerings to televangelist Benny Hinn”.

Why specifically $1 000? Because
" an exceptional blessing rested on $1 000."

“God would bless the people's credit cards and they would be able to rule over South Africa with their money” and that 500 audience members would receive "an exceptional blessing".

Koontz apparently really had the congregation scrambling when he said, "This blessing will be poured out for only two minutes." [56]

However
Pastor Tommie Ferreira of the AGS Church in Johannesburg was so upset about the "blessing" that, after a week, he wanted to know who of the donors actually had become millionaires.

Ferreira told Rapport he did not mean to bring about Hinn's downfall. He merely wanted to know if any of the hundreds of churchgoers who donated amounts of up to $1, 000 (about R7,500) to Hinn's Miracle Crusade last week Saturday had now become millionaires...

He said he could not live with his conscience if he did not speak to others about this possible trickery...
"I'm not attacking them (Hinn and Koontz). It just really gets my goat when people make unfounded claims and then they're off with these people's money."" [56] [TOP OF PAGE]

Tele-Evangelist Lifestyles

He said he could not live with his conscience if he did not speak to others about this possible trickery...
"I'm not attacking them (Hinn and Koontz). It just really gets my goat when people make unfounded claims and then they're off with these people's money.""

 

[JesusIsAll]

I saw this Bozo, Tilton, tear chunks out of a Bible and go on to say it's only paper, the only thing holy about it the $7 it cost to buy it.

Hey! I found this hucksterlicious clip on YouTube, with some Bible destroying for Jesus first up!

[video=youtube;De8qahr3Rtc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De8qahr3Rtc[/video]​

 

[JesusIsAll]

Creflo under the anointing, oh glory!

[video=youtube;AYxeTjrckl0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxeTjrckl0[/video]

GIMME MO STUFF!​

 

[VCO]

MacArthur is correct. No one here has said they never sin or are sinless. Have you misread someone?

No, but there are still a few fringe area Churches that Teach that a real Christian quits sinning and never sins again. They are like modern day Pharisees who think they keep GOD's laws perfectly. I have debated a couple of them here on Christian-Chat.com in the past.

 

[FancyNancy]

Let me get the ethics right. Now we are talking ethic not I am in an emotional high light on LSD and everything is so significant and I can fly. People do this, jump off buildings and die.

I have no problem if you say a christian is a new creation, with love planted in their hearts, driven by the fruits of the Spirit.
The fruit of the spirit is righteousness. Ofcourse a christian can sin, but if they walk in the Spirit they will not.

This exactly right.

The problem is the word is baptism in the Holy Spirit, an emotional experience of meeting the Lord or some claim a spiritual birth. A sign of this is the gifts, and because people now have this change what they do is made perfect. So experiment, have a go, and when it fails, have another go. And what is the result, no change, because the theology has thrown out righteousness, love, humbleness, truth. Bring in truth and reality beyond the show bizz, and you are condemned.

No, the problem is your perception of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is not as much an emotional experience, but a whole being experience. Some people have no emotional response whatsoever, and those same people sometimes come away with wondering if they've undergone the baptism or not. Rest assured, they have. For instance, one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is wisdom. As one who has been given such a gift goes on in life, that gift will manifest. One doesn't have to have the gift of tongues, or be slain in the spirit, or have any immediate outward manifestation.

Talk about love, and the basics, and you are evil and a heretic. Anyone doing this should be worried, but it does not matter, they have the key to walk in the Spirit, though they agree it does not. In fact they openly admit 80% of the prophecy is wrong. So what about the healings, the teaching, in fact most of everything?

If it is fake, or striving after the wind, at what point do you say the emphasis is wrong? WOF, NAR, Latter Rain are just a bad experiment, but people have grown up. Nope. It is all wrong when love was not the focus, but supernatural experience.

Love is always a good indicator of spiritual fruit. Love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness and self control are all fruit. It has to be cultivated. However these are not indicators of spiritual gifts, and the gifts themselves are their own indicators.

Now as truth comes out, the dream world cannot be given up, it is the evil pharisees who are to blame, criticsm, the spiritual war being lost. I am not an enemy, if fact I should be your friend. But because the ethics are wrong I am not, you see me as the enemy.

Mysticism does not work.

No one here is promoting mysticism. Perhaps you are being hyper-vigilant.

 

[Chica]

Creflo has a boat, a jet, a mansion and a yacht and what else? And all paid for with God's money no doubt?

Fleecing the flock is very profitable.

 

[PeterJens]

Love is always a good indicator of spiritual fruit.

There is a problem with your inclusion of love as a fruit of the spirit.
Love of money, is love, love of your family, is love, love of music or pleasure is love, love of parents, is love.

Love is part of life, in the world and in faith.

Jesus measures His love against ours

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
John 15:13

Jesus commands us to love.
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
John 13:34

For this to be real, love has to be innate within us, not just a add on of the Holy Spirit.

But as I have stated time and again, the cross is all about love, Gods love for us. Because of His love, we preach Christ crucified, because that love is so sacred and wonderful, so powerful, it transforms us through the Holy Spirit.

You oddly want to correct me about something fundamental to life and Jesus. I wonder when you picture Jesus on the cross and you at His feet what do you think? What do you feel?

Maybe you never go here.

Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."
John 6:53



You have to enter into the cross and sacrifice, into love and its free gift, into suffering and unbelievable pain. Many left Him because this was such a hard thing to understand and face. You cannot know Jesus and not be here, or you have missed it all. This is a place of great grace but also desolation. When I saw this place for the first time graphically in my mind it broke me. From then on I just wanted to talk about Jesus and His love, and still it burns and renews me.

Yet you do not know this place. How can this be?

 

[Chica]

Dear reader. I have been a christian 30+ years. I started by asking God for wisdom, knowing there was a power and understanding in Jesus that spoke to my heart, but I did not know where or why it spoke to me. One word changed my life, love. At each level of my experience, still there was another layer, a deeper realisation of what that word meant.

I lead a house group on love above spiritual gifts, that the core mission of the church was to heal the heart, to make whole the soul and spirit of a person. I knew of people who believed in regression therapy but that just destroyed them. I knew that opening up old wounds often made them deeper. I began to realise we are an emotional history, with learnt reactions to things that we actually use everyday, which adjust depending on experience. We sow and build this framework and it defines us. If the Lord is to mean anything, he has to address this in our hearts. Rather than open old wounds, he makes new strengths, he puts in understanding and healing, so there is not a wound but a strong place to walk, we are remade.

I wondered at the cross, the cross being lifted up, as the golden snake that brought healing to all who saw it. Could it be that the actual realisation of God made man dying for us, remade us daily within, empowered us, as an intellectual and emotional experience, not just super spiritual experience in the spirit. Now it is not possible to see this truly without the Holy Spirit, but what if the lie is to make it too religious and not personal enough. Look around your life, and ask, who do you really know, love or care about? My experience of humans is we are so defensive, and so volatile, we almost trust no one. Jesus goes beyond this, saying at His core, at the very being of God, He loves us, and is willing to do the impossible.

Does Jesus reduce you to tears? Do you sing "I live to serve you each day." "You are my sunshine."

This is the spring of living water in us, the unstoppable flow, the reason why the apostles were happy to go to their deaths praising the Lord, because he literally transcends us at all levels.

Now the reason why someone says "confused mess" because the Lord has not spoken to them at this level.

St francis prayer Make Me an Instrument of Your Peace has spoken to people for hundreds of years.

But for these guys this is not christianity. At this point we should walk away. I am talking a different language, yet I know exactly what they are saying. Mysticism does not ask what you are doing, just obedience because it is Gods work. But God is a God of order and real teaching, and confirmation of what has gone before. He does not make something new, but expands on all His previous revelation.

The Old covenant is a foreshadow of the new, it is not a change. You can find the heart of God, His love, His redemption in seeing the actual embodiment of the cross, before the cross, else Abraham, Enoch, Melkizidek could not have known God.

As I thought all those years ago, we are very lost and we want so badly to arrive, we will invent our own arrival, or reality.
And yes there is a failure in teaching, but mainly in this modern society a failure of emotional honesty and truth, because we are so terribly wealthy, we can run away from all the difficult issues.

Someone in a bretheren church said of the charismatic group, they say the same words as us, yet claim they are so different. The difference was the pure excitement at the word of God, but what it lead to was a split, and a group who did not last, but fizzled out, rather than renewed the whole. So which is it? Maybe both, but that is the task the Lord puts towards us, to let the Spirit give life to what is already there.

Now I have an agenda, like these NAR guys. The agenda is to speak to what we are, and to empower us to change through the cross, and letting love speak to who we are. This is the ministry of the Holy Spirit but it is not mysticism or some, woooo that felt good, I am soooo drunk, collapse on the floor, it is plain, I stand in front of you and say honestly I love you, without hesitation. That is the reality Jesus preached us to become, real, simple, open, honest, righteous people.
But do you believe it is possible or put it another way, do you believe Jesus?

This is the ministry of the Holy Spirit but it is not mysticism or some, woooo that felt good, I am soooo drunk, collapse on the floor

The supposed being "slain in the Spirit" is not a biblical concept.

2. The biblical instances were few and far between, and they occurred only rarely in the lives of a few people. In the slain in the Spirit phenomenon, falling down is a repeated event and an experience that happens to many.

3. In the biblical instances, the people fall upon their face in awe at either what or whom they see. In the slain in the Spirit counterfeit, they fall backwards, either in response to the wave of the speaker's arm or as a result of a church leader's touch (or push in some cases).

We are not claiming that all examples of being slain in the Spirit are fakes or responses to a touch or push. Many people claim to experience an energy or a force that causes them to fall back. However, we find no biblical basis for this concept. Yes, there may be some energy or force involved, but if so, it is very likely not of God and not the result of the working of the Holy Spirit.

Read more: Is being slain in the Spirit biblical?

The Christians who argue against this phenomena really being from the Lord base their arguments on the following reasons:

Every time people fell when the presence of God would manifest, they would always fall on their faces, not fall backward.

Nowhere in the Bible do the prophets, the apostles, or Jesus Himself ever lay hands on someone and then the power of God comes through their hands to knock them backward.

The only time people fell in the presence of God was when God was rendering some type of judgment.

Is Being Slain In The Spirit Coming From God?

But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall {{backwards and be broken, and snared and taken}}. Isaiah 28:13

 

[PeterJens]

The supposed being "slain in the Spirit" is not a biblical concept.

In our church people have fallen over. But rather than seeing it as a sign, I see it as emotional overload. Collapsing due to emotional stress is a known medical condition. And the people I have observed being slain, were very emotional.

The problem is when it becomes something of significance. As you rightly point out it is not anything from scripture, and it means zero. Even the people who faint have no clue why, they just find themselves on the floor.

But imagine you are preacher who is very unsure if you are having an impact. Seeing people collapse is a sure indication you are having an impact, and many get sucked in to such displays. Count the number of healings claimed verses collapsing? Every service in some churches this is expected, or desired. I would want people who continually collapsed like this to see a doctor in case it occurred while driving or crossing a road, or carrying coffee. It is no minor issue to faint with no control.

The some will say if you are hurt it is not of God. That is a great spiritual test here then. But it indicates what is deemed authority, if it happens in a meeting while praising God, it must be of God, or else it would not happen. So if a crook deceived a congregation that something spiritual was happening but it is a fake, because the people did not know, it must be of God. Now that is how insane this type of thinking is, and how delusional.