This is an appeal to those who are not yet experienced in the gifts of the Spirit, and especially tongues and prophecy, the 2 signs that are always mentioned in scripture when Christians got a 2nd, powerful, "extra" from the Holy Spirit.
Do not let inexperienced people argue you out of what the Holy Spirit would have for you. Furthermore, the argument always made by people who are not experienced in the gifts of the Spirit use a verse in the bible that has absolutely ZERO relationship to this matter. Allow me to help you.
As always, whenever taking up a discussion about holy scripture, I advise doing what a disciple taught me over 30 years ago. He said to always lay down this point which will force people to not go outside and get fanciful ideas and creative nonsense. This is the verse you should always start a discussion on:
1Co 4:6 I have applied all this to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brethren, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
Some translations also use the term "do not exceed what is written". We also know not to add or take away from what is written. Okay, then.
Now, the first passage that is used by those who are ignorant of the matter of tongues and prophecy and all the gifts, really, (meaning, they themselves have not experienced these gifts of the Holy Spirit, is this:
1 Cor 13:8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
1 Cor 13:9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;
1 Cor 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.
The argument is that the word "perfect" in v.10 means the bible. And when asked how they come to that idea, they say that when the canon of scripture all came together, i.e. the whole bible, that that is the perfect, word of God, and we now no longer need tongues and prophecy.
When asked how that conclusion can be drawn from the "putting a book together called the bible", they add that tongues and prophecy were used to evangelize as on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2), but the bible now supplants that need.
But as always, is there a context to help in the matter? Of course there is. The whole chapter in general is speaking about the superiority of love over any and everything else, which does not negate the any and everything else, but puts everything into perspective and prioritizes LOVE as the main behavior that saints should live by.
As you look at v.8, Paul states that at some time future, prophecies, tongues, and knowledge will pass away. It should be obvious that knowledge has not passed away, and yet the argument goes on anyway.
Furthermore, we are told by the prophet Daniel that knowledge will increase at the time of the end before the return of the Christ:
Dan 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."
This does not help these people who, no insult meant, are simply blind on this subject, having no experience in the matter.
Would the experience about having been in space be best answered by somebody who has not been in space, or an astronaut who has?
Moving on....
When confronted with this point about knowledge, the argument against tongues gets more creative, and out of line with the biblical principle we started this with, as to going beyond what is written. They say that "knowledge" in this instance, has to do with the eternal knowledge of Jesus who brought the gospel in the flesh.
Is that written there? No, it is not. It is a "speculation".
Again, it should be obvious that people who have no experience in a matter, cannot speak authoritatively on the matter.
Moving on....
Acts 2
Allow me to bring to the front of this discussion something Peter said to all those who heard the tongues on the day of Pentecost, who thought they were drunk. I will bold type a couple of key statements that I want you to read:
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
Act 2:15 For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day;
Act 2:16 but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
Act 2:18 yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.
Act 2:19 And I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth beneath, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
Act 2:20 the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and manifest day.
First note, that Peter gives the message a context - that what they were observing was not only foretold by the prophet Joel, but that is pertains to the last days, and Peter also makes mention of more prophecy (v. 19 and 20) that this God will also show wonders in the heaven above, signs on earth beneath, blood, fire, and smoke, and the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood....
Rev 6:12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood,
Also, Peter says that this promise (everything he just said from verses 15 to 39) is not only for those who were in attendance, but to the end of the age. Read it:
Act 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
Saints, do not be naive and young in your thinking. The Holy Spirit has vital power and gifts for the functioning of Christ's Body.
They are so important that Jesus commanded the disciples to NOT go out and attempt to do God's work UNTIL they were empowered from on High (which tool place at Acts 2).
They lacked something vital (the power of the Holy Spirit) and this is for ALL the SAINTS everywhere, to all them that are afar off.
One more thing:
1 Cor 13 gives perfect context of what the Perfect is. Read this:
Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.
We are all seeing in a mirror dimly now. Everybody, even these naysayers, agree with that. But then, one day, we shall see face to face. THEN, there will no longer be a need for knowledge, tongues, prophecy. When will we see face to face?
ANSWER: Either when Jesus comes, or sets up the Eternal kingdom with all of us, or when we enter into the eternal heaven upon our death and going to be with the Lord.
But we certainly have not gotten to that, yet. And so, tongues, prophecy, and knowledge are still at work today in the Body.
Do not let inexperienced people argue you out of what the Holy Spirit would have for you. Furthermore, the argument always made by people who are not experienced in the gifts of the Spirit use a verse in the bible that has absolutely ZERO relationship to this matter. Allow me to help you.
As always, whenever taking up a discussion about holy scripture, I advise doing what a disciple taught me over 30 years ago. He said to always lay down this point which will force people to not go outside and get fanciful ideas and creative nonsense. This is the verse you should always start a discussion on:
1Co 4:6 I have applied all this to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brethren, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
Some translations also use the term "do not exceed what is written". We also know not to add or take away from what is written. Okay, then.
Now, the first passage that is used by those who are ignorant of the matter of tongues and prophecy and all the gifts, really, (meaning, they themselves have not experienced these gifts of the Holy Spirit, is this:
1 Cor 13:8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
1 Cor 13:9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;
1 Cor 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.
The argument is that the word "perfect" in v.10 means the bible. And when asked how they come to that idea, they say that when the canon of scripture all came together, i.e. the whole bible, that that is the perfect, word of God, and we now no longer need tongues and prophecy.
When asked how that conclusion can be drawn from the "putting a book together called the bible", they add that tongues and prophecy were used to evangelize as on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2), but the bible now supplants that need.
But as always, is there a context to help in the matter? Of course there is. The whole chapter in general is speaking about the superiority of love over any and everything else, which does not negate the any and everything else, but puts everything into perspective and prioritizes LOVE as the main behavior that saints should live by.
As you look at v.8, Paul states that at some time future, prophecies, tongues, and knowledge will pass away. It should be obvious that knowledge has not passed away, and yet the argument goes on anyway.
Furthermore, we are told by the prophet Daniel that knowledge will increase at the time of the end before the return of the Christ:
Dan 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."
This does not help these people who, no insult meant, are simply blind on this subject, having no experience in the matter.
Would the experience about having been in space be best answered by somebody who has not been in space, or an astronaut who has?
Moving on....
When confronted with this point about knowledge, the argument against tongues gets more creative, and out of line with the biblical principle we started this with, as to going beyond what is written. They say that "knowledge" in this instance, has to do with the eternal knowledge of Jesus who brought the gospel in the flesh.
Is that written there? No, it is not. It is a "speculation".
Again, it should be obvious that people who have no experience in a matter, cannot speak authoritatively on the matter.
Moving on....
Acts 2
Allow me to bring to the front of this discussion something Peter said to all those who heard the tongues on the day of Pentecost, who thought they were drunk. I will bold type a couple of key statements that I want you to read:
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
Act 2:15 For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day;
Act 2:16 but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
Act 2:18 yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.
Act 2:19 And I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth beneath, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
Act 2:20 the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and manifest day.
First note, that Peter gives the message a context - that what they were observing was not only foretold by the prophet Joel, but that is pertains to the last days, and Peter also makes mention of more prophecy (v. 19 and 20) that this God will also show wonders in the heaven above, signs on earth beneath, blood, fire, and smoke, and the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood....
Rev 6:12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood,
Also, Peter says that this promise (everything he just said from verses 15 to 39) is not only for those who were in attendance, but to the end of the age. Read it:
Act 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
Saints, do not be naive and young in your thinking. The Holy Spirit has vital power and gifts for the functioning of Christ's Body.
They are so important that Jesus commanded the disciples to NOT go out and attempt to do God's work UNTIL they were empowered from on High (which tool place at Acts 2).
They lacked something vital (the power of the Holy Spirit) and this is for ALL the SAINTS everywhere, to all them that are afar off.
One more thing:
1 Cor 13 gives perfect context of what the Perfect is. Read this:
Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.
We are all seeing in a mirror dimly now. Everybody, even these naysayers, agree with that. But then, one day, we shall see face to face. THEN, there will no longer be a need for knowledge, tongues, prophecy. When will we see face to face?
ANSWER: Either when Jesus comes, or sets up the Eternal kingdom with all of us, or when we enter into the eternal heaven upon our death and going to be with the Lord.
But we certainly have not gotten to that, yet. And so, tongues, prophecy, and knowledge are still at work today in the Body.
