Render unto Cesar.........

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BarlyGurl

Guest
#81
#81
>>>>Do not cast stones' at another for their sins or expect to get them thrown back at you for you are guilty also !!!<<<

I AM certain my "sins" are forgiven... and IF I commit a social CRIME which is punishable by the death penalty... I will SURELY receive it as RIGHT AND JUST.... FURTHER, should I be put to death based on a FALSE accusation of ANY CRIME.... that would be a bummer but I WILL receive it just the same... going home to Jesus... AMEN AMEN.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#82
#82
dcontroversal said:
I would support the death penalty...God has made the wicked for the day of destruction and someone like Ted Bundy has reached the end of their time under the sun....God has every one's time under the sun marked off and when they reach the end of that time they will cease to exist in the flesh....maybe for the mass murder who gets the death penalty his day of reckoning is the day he gets the electric chair for raping and murdering some little girl.
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What about people like David Berkowitz, "The Son of Sam" serial killer? I was living in NJ during his reign of terror in NY. The guy was into Satanic rituals and if you ever saw a picture of him getting arrested, then you'd say to yourself, "Dear God, the guy looks possessed!" Now? The guy is a born again Christian who, although serving a life sentence in prison, has been involved in Christian ministry for years. What about Karla Faye Tucker who then governor of Texas, George "Dubya" Bush, had executed? I wrote Bush a letter back then and asked him to spare her life because he claimed to be a Christian and I reminded him of the likes of King David and Paul who were ex-murderers themselves. I received back a letter, a mass-mailer I'm sure, in which Bush basically said:

"I'm going to kill her and then I'll pray for her."

Gee, thanks.

Even the relative of one of her victims sought to have her spared because she obviously became a born again Christian and was a totally different person. People can change...if we don't kill them before they have ample opportunity to do so.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#83
#83
crossnote said:
Last time. Gen 9:6 has everything to do with us as individuals, Christian or not. True, God has not given the Church the sword, He has given it to the government and in that we are to be obedient. Jury duty in no way is forbidden in the NT. If you're conscience bothers you as you serve in your civic duty then refrain, but don't criticize those who have a clear conscience in serving.
Your Gal 3:13 quote is not applicable.
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Again we are only to be obedient to the laws of man if they do not contradict how we are called to walk by the Lord.

Lord Jesus commanded us to walk in love, mercy, and forgiveness to others as He forgave us for our sins, and showed us mercy so that we do not have to face the punishment of the law for breaking them.

I did not say jury duty was forbidden, but when serving on jury duty do we side with man on death penalty or do we go with the Lord to show mercy and forgiveness ??? We are to obey the Lord our God over man and show the mercy and forgiveness !!!

Look here below at what JesusistheChrist said, as he brings up points where gentiles where held accountable by the law and pointed out their sins.




JesusistheChrist said:
I'm sorry, but you're totally, totally wrong on this one. For starters, whether you or anybody else likes it or not, Paul taught that the law was given that every mouth might be stopped and that the whole world might become guilty before God (Romans 3:19)...and the whole world includes the Gentiles. For crying out loud, what got John the Baptist beheaded? It was telling a GENTILE king that it wasn't "lawful" for him to take his brother's wife. According to what "law"? THE LAW OF MOSES. Seriously, some people are so steeped in error that's been propagated BY THE CHURCH that they can't even see what's right before their own eyes in their own Bibles. Furthermore, are you insinuating that the woman who was caught in adultery was a Gentile? Upon what do you base that?
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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#84
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#84
JesusistheChrist said:
What about people like David Berkowitz, "The Son of Sam" serial killer? I was living in NJ during his reign of terror in NY. The guy was into Satanic rituals and if you ever saw a picture of him getting arrested, then you'd say to yourself, "Dear God, the guy looks possessed!" Now? The guy is a born again Christian who, although serving a life sentence in prison, has been involved in Christian ministry for years. What about Karla Faye Tucker who then governor of Texas, George "Dubya" Bush, had executed? I wrote Bush a letter back then and asked him to spare her life because he claimed to be a Christian and I reminded him of the likes of King David and Paul who were ex-murderers themselves. I received back a letter, a mass-mailer I'm sure, in which Bush basically said:

"I'm going to kill her and then I'll pray for her."

Gee, thanks.

Even the relative of one of her victims sought to have her spared because she obviously became a born again Christian and was a totally different person. People can change...if we don't kill them before they have ample opportunity to do so.
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Not saying people cannot change...just saying the odds are slim to none and the Lord uses governments to work his will...including the death penalty
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#85
#85
crossnote said:
On the other hand, how many lives are spared from future murders when capital punishment is enforced as a deterrent lives which end up in hell because they weren't given mercy to live by the perpetrator?
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What were Christ's instructions to His disciples in relation to those who were guilty of MURDERING HIM? Perhaps in your Bible He commissioned His disciples to go out and kill them? In my Bible, He commissioned His disciples to go and preach the gospel to them AND THEY DID.
 
Yonah

Yonah

Senior Member
#86
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
48
#86
Heres the thing, the creator of the universe makes the rules and sets the punishment, mankind need not agree for the punishment to be dealt out according to How the Father has purposed it so to be, Gen 9:6
 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

the question now is; do we believe the scripture or not?
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#87
#87
dcontroversal said:
Not saying people cannot change...just saying the odds are slim to none and the Lord uses governments to work his will...including the death penalty
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How can you say that the odds are slim to none? Why do so many people have prison ministries if what you're suggesting is true?
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
#88
#88
JesusistheChrist said:
What about people like David Berkowitz, "The Son of Sam" serial killer? I was living in NJ during his reign of terror in NY. The guy was into Satanic rituals and if you ever saw a picture of him getting arrested, then you'd say to yourself, "Dear God, the guy looks possessed!" Now? The guy is a born again Christian who, although serving a life sentence in prison, has been involved in Christian ministry for years. What about Karla Faye Tucker who then governor of Texas, George "Dubya" Bush, had executed? I wrote Bush a letter back then and asked him to spare her life because he claimed to be a Christian and I reminded him of the likes of King David and Paul who were ex-murderers themselves. I received back a letter, a mass-mailer I'm sure, in which Bush basically said:

"I'm going to kill her and then I'll pray for her."

Gee, thanks.

Even the relative of one of her victims sought to have her spared because she obviously became a born again Christian and was a totally different person. People can change...if we don't kill them before they have ample opportunity to do so.
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Another good story, thanks for sharing and YES, I am rather appalled by the "bush letter". If I were Karla<insert myself in scenario> I would recognize that even tho I am born again.... I am still under the consequential PENALTY of my social crime, and while I might "ask' the lord to intervene and release me... should that not happen... I am STILL going home to Jesus eternally and maybe I evangelized a few souls along the way too.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#89
#89
Yonah said:
Heres the thing, the creator of the universe makes the rules and sets the punishment, mankind need not agree for the punishment to be dealt out according to How the Father has purposed it so to be, Gen 9:6
 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

the question now is; do we believe the scripture or not?
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In your Bible, did Jesus commission His disciples to go out and kill those who murdered Him? For crying out loud, man, when Peter drew His sword in the garden, Jesus told him to put up his sword because those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
#90
#90
JesusistheChrist said:
What were Christ's instructions to His disciples in relation to those who were guilty of MURDERING HIM? Perhaps in your Bible He commissioned His disciples to go out and kill them? In my Bible, He commissioned His disciples to go and preach the gospel to them AND THEY DID.
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Jesus wasn't murdered... HE GAVE HIMSELF.
 
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blondieindahouse

Banned
#91
Jun 23, 2015
1,990
37
0
#91
Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.


*gotquestions.org
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#92
#92
BarlyGurl said:
>>>>Do not cast stones' at another for their sins or expect to get them thrown back at you for you are guilty also !!!<<<

I AM certain my "sins" are forgiven... and IF I commit a social CRIME which is punishable by the death penalty... I will SURELY receive it as RIGHT AND JUST.... FURTHER, should I be put to death based on a FALSE accusation of ANY CRIME.... that would be a bummer but I WILL receive it just the same... going home to Jesus... AMEN AMEN.
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Oh my gosh !!!

You are still placing society standards before God's standards of the new covenant.

You have been shown mercy and forgiveness by the Lord so that you do not have to face the curse of the law by being put to death for your sins, yet you are requiring others to be put to death for theirs.

Do you not see how that is contradicting to the fact that we are commanded to show mercy and forgiveness in the same manner as the Lord showed us ???

Just like King David, Moses, and Apostle Paul who all three were guilty of murder, but not a one of them was put to death by the law because the Lord showed mercy and forgiveness to them when they repented.

We are not to take that same chance of forgiveness away from another, and we can not just place a limitation on when they can repent because some take longer to come to the Truth then others.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#93
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#93
JesusistheChrist said:
How can you say that the odds are slim to none? Why do so many people have prison ministries if what you're suggesting is true?
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Because it is a proven fact that most Jail house (conversions) are a farce.....as a matter of fact it is also a known fact that most criminals are coached to embrace religious statements and confession so as to increase their chance of parole...look I have no doubt there are some biblical conversions in prison, but that is not the point...they committed a particular heinous crime, they get the death penalty and I have no problem with that.........
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#94
#94
dcontroversal said:
Not saying people cannot change...just saying the odds are slim to none and the Lord uses governments to work his will...including the death penalty
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I have done prison ministry for a few years and I can tell you by this statement you are completely wrong.

Yes some do misuse the word and make faulty confessions just to get out of punishment, but then turn around and go do the same sinful things again.

But I know for a fact that people changing and truly coming to Christ in prison is not slim to none, that is society once again stating faulty accusations.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#95
#95
dcontroversal said:
Because it is a proven fact that most Jail house (conversions) are a farce.....as a matter of fact it is also a known fact that most criminals are coached to embrace religious statements and confession so as to increase their chance of parole...look I have no doubt there are some biblical conversions in prison, but that is not the point...they committed a particular heinous crime, they get the death penalty and I have no problem with that.........
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See post 94 because it is not a fact........................
 
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KennethC

Guest
#97
#97
AceMichaels said:
Maybe a better way to say it is; He gave himself up to be murdered because He was innocent.
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Yes and instead of condemning them or asking for them to be put to death, Jesus prayed for forgiveness for them.
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#98
#98
>>>>We are not to take that same chance of forgiveness away from another, and we can not just place a limitation on when they can repent because some take longer to come to the Truth then others.<<<<

<SHRUGS> clearly you and I cannot agree on the matter... I contend... if sitting on death row doesn't MOVE a soul to cry out to it's maker... God's mind <and mine> desiring no man to perish doesn't stop them from perishing now does it??? Hell is enlarged... WHY? surely omniscient God could know how big to make hell in the first place.... if it's enlarged... man's will MUST have something to do with it...
 
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KennethC

Guest
#99
#99
BarlyGurl said:
>>>>We are not to take that same chance of forgiveness away from another, and we can not just place a limitation on when they can repent because some take longer to come to the Truth then others.<<<<

<SHRUGS> clearly you and I cannot agree on the matter... I contend... if sitting on death row doesn't MOVE a soul to cry out to it's maker... God's mind <and mine> desiring no man to perish doesn't stop them from perishing now does it??? Hell is enlarged... WHY? surely omniscient God could know how big to make hell in the first place.... if it's enlarged... man's will MUST have something to do with it...
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I will still contend for how the Lord Jesus has told us to live, and that is show love, mercy, and forgiveness to others as He has shown us.

Siding with the death penalty is in no way mercy or forgiveness, and the only way it could even be considered as such is if the person who committed the crime personally asks to be shown mercy by putting him death.

By what you are saying if you were alive when Apostle Paul was around, you would have wanted him in prison and put to death also. For he was guilty of persecuting and killing Christians before he converted, one of which was Stephen.

Lord Jesus showed him mercy and thus he was never put to death for his crimes of murder............
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
#100
#100
AceMichaels said:
Maybe a better way to say it is; He gave himself up to be murdered because He was innocent.
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Okay... from my perspective that is... MINCING WORDS. He either GAVE HIMSELF UP as the lamb of God or NOT... and he was NOT murdered... he was executed under false accusation of civil CRIME... so now we can argue the word mincing circle... beyond the mincing already going on here.:(
 
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