Render unto Cesar.........

[Galahad]

Boy oh boy. Here goes. You know, if people would just leave out their assumptions and their opinions and feelings, and just speak the truth, how much easier this would be.
Here's goes. I'll have to copy the brackets to break up your responses. I should have known.

1) Putting one to death does not fit under love, mercy, and forgiveness to the one who committed the sin
(I did answer this one already multiple times)

Genesis 9:6. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Now Ken, watch this. Please. Your statement "Putting one to death does not fit under love..."
God gave the command to put to the death murderer. That's not love! God not love!

Lord said no to an eye for eye, tooth for a tooth and if you look at Exodus 21:23-36 you will see that a life for a life is in that ordinance that Jesus is referring to in Matthew 5:38-42.

Jesus is teaching disciples. They are Jews. He is teaching them the spirit of the Law. It is a personal application of the Law. It has nothing to do with a Christian supporting the DP. Where's the connection?
Apply your conclusion of Matthew 5:38-42 to your support of life in prison!

2)

We are to show forgiveness to all who have sinned, as we were forgiven of ours.
(I answered this way before also)

Why? It's not my place to forgive Isis. I don't forgive them. You do? Jesus in the sermon on the mount is not making a new law that overrides principles expressed before, during, or after the Law.

We are to forgive when they ask for it, but that asking does not always happen right away and it is not our place to force an apology out of a person by shorting their lifespan. Going that route most of the time will most likely lead to a false confession just to get out of punishment. Real repentance must be given time to come from the heart !!!

Isis is never going to ask. Many on death row are not going to ask. If they ask, I probably wouldn't know. Regardless, if I forgive someone who murdered my family, that does not mean I am unforgiveable just because I support the DP.
Don't destroy Isis, they haven't asked for forgiveness yet. And when they ask of me, I must forgive. This is silly. Remember, there is the State and there is the individual. Okay.

4)

Did the Lord have those in the bible such as Moses, David, and Paul put to death when they murdered ??? No, therefore repenting and being under grace by faith in the Lord releases one from the curse of the law !!![/QUTOE]
Unbelievable! Moses. He was in Egypt. It was Egypt's call to apply DP to Moses. David? Who told you David murdered? I asked that to Ace in the bunker, he never answered it. Who told you David committed adultery? Otherwise, what are you referring to?

5)

highlighted your number 5 because that is your assumption, not mine, because I never said keeping a murderer alive shows love to the victims family.

Someone did. That's right. We'll see.

What I said is that keeping them alive shows love, mercy, and forgiveness to the one who committed the murder.
Please do not twist my words to say something I didn't, and again love must be shown to both the victim/victims family and the one who committed the murder/sin. You can not do away with one over the other or you are disobeying the Lord to show love and mercy to all, and to forgive those who sin as you have been forgiven.

Once again have you committed adultery (this includes just looking lustfully at another woman), have you murdered (this includes showing hatred to another), have you worked on the Sabbath, and have you broken any other commandments or laws that required the death penalty in the OT ???

I have never murdered. I am not guilty of murder. Not in the distorted sense you think I am. I was never obligated to keep the Sabbath.
Even if I were guilty as you suggest, and then forgiven, my forgiveness from God would not make void or nullify Genesis 9:6.

Should we put you or the rest of us in the electric chair or lethal injection then and be killed ???
If not why ???

No, should you put me away for life. You know. Life in prison!

For if the curse of the law still applies to this one sin why does it not apply to the others ???

I do not base my support for the death penalty on the curse of the Law. That's your error in your assumption and your tweaking of the Law as if it were to apply to the secular state.


Question: Did you read verses 28-32 of Matthew 5? That's your pretext. Are you willing to apply them as you do the other verses you quoted from that same text?

 

[Galahad]

Boy oh boy. Here goes. You know, if people would just leave out their assumptions and their opinions and feelings, and just speak the truth, how much easier this would be.
Here's goes. I'll have to copy the brackets to break up your responses. I should have known.


Genesis 9:6. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Now Ken, watch this. Please. Your statement "Putting one to death does not fit under love..."
God gave the command to put to the death murderer. That's not love! God not love!


Jesus is teaching disciples. They are Jews. He is teaching them the spirit of the Law. It is a personal application of the Law. It has nothing to do with a Christian supporting the DP. Where's the connection?
Apply your conclusion of Matthew 5:38-42 to your support of life in prison!


Why? It's not my place to forgive Isis. I don't forgive them. You do? Jesus in the sermon on the mount is not making a new law that overrides principles expressed before, during, or after the Law.


Isis is never going to ask. Many on death row are not going to ask. If they ask, I probably wouldn't know. Regardless, if I forgive someone who murdered my family, that does not mean I am unforgiveable just because I support the DP.
Don't destroy Isis, they haven't asked for forgiveness yet. And when they ask of me, I must forgive. This is silly. Remember, there is the State and there is the individual. Okay.

4)

Did the Lord have those in the bible such as Moses, David, and Paul put to death when they murdered ??? No, therefore repenting and being under grace by faith in the Lord releases one from the curse of the law !!![/QUTOE]
Unbelievable! Moses. He was in Egypt. It was Egypt's call to apply DP to Moses. David? Who told you David murdered? I asked that to Ace in the bunker, he never answered it. Who told you David committed adultery? Otherwise, what are you referring to?



Someone did. That's right. We'll see.




I have never murdered. I am not guilty of murder. Not in the distorted sense you think I am. I was never obligated to keep the Sabbath.
Even if I were guilty as you suggest, and then forgiven, my forgiveness from God would not make void or nullify Genesis 9:6.



No, should you put me away for life. You know. Life in prison!


I do not base my support for the death penalty on the curse of the Law. That's your error in your assumption and your tweaking of the Law as if it were to apply to the secular state.


Question: Did you read verses 28-32 of Matthew 5? That's your pretext. Are you willing to apply them as you do the other verses you quoted from that same text?

What a mess. I'll try to fix the missing quotes. Sorry. Maybe the Holy Spirit is hiding your errors Ken from being spread about. I think so.

 

[AceMichaels]

Please! Hold your quick thoughts. I have a dozen of those. You really want to cloud the issue. That was just a quick thought. See what you do? I will report you for wasting my time. Either get serious and post truth and work with me on this, or be kind enough to tell me you are just here to juggle abstractions and ambiguity as a literary show. Seriously. Thank you!

You have a serious problem!!! Really? Only you can post? I should report you for hijacking a thread and belittling every other poster. Grow up!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

That is actually a bad phrase that was started because it initially says I don't care where they end up that's not my problem.

Problem with that is that we are called in the ministry to bring people to repentance, and we by the Holy Spirit are placed as overseers of the flock. There are multiple examples in the bible that says we are to reprove and rebuke others and the follow it up with exhortation and esteeming all by the word of God. This phrase gives no place for any of that !!!

I agree! Did you check out the article? I thought it was a good article.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

You have a serious problem!!! Really? Only you can post? I should report you for hijacking a thread and belittling every other poster. Grow up!

Come on now -- Both of you grow up!
Everyone needs to grow up -- myself included!
We're all in this together.
Play nice and work hard to get along!

 

[Galahad]

You have a serious problem!!! Really? Only you can post? I should report you for hijacking a thread and belittling every other poster. Grow up!

Ace not in the whole. False chargers will not be tolerated. The notion of giving a murderer time to repent is a bible basis for opposing the DP is ridiculous. It is off track and clouds the discussion.

Now, in order for you to clear your name of false accusation: hand over the evidence that I have belittled every other poster. Please. Otherwise, your charge is false.

Now get back to the course. Get out of the bunker. Maybe, you'll get a hole in one.

 

[Galahad]

Come on now -- Both of you grow up!
Everyone needs to grow up -- myself included!
We're all in this together.
Play nice and work hard to get along!

As for you PW, my fine feathered friend, go nest somewhere else. Or, you'll be tarred and feathered. How about defeathered and tarred!

Here birdie, birdie, birdie. Hey, Ace, have you ever shot a birdie? Golf, ACE. Golf.

FOUR!

 

[blue_ladybug]

So much snipery in the forums today.. :/ Must be a full moon..

 

[Galahad]

So much snipery in the forums today.. :/ Must be a full moon..

First an Ace in the bunker. Then a bird. Now a not so Lady ladybug. Shew.

Ace takes a swing. Ball knocks PW out of the tree. And lands on ladybug. Dead.
Ace go back to the bunker.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

First an Ace in the bunker. Then a bird. Now a not so Lady ladybug. Shew.

Ace takes a swing. Ball knocks PW out of the tree. And lands on ladybug. Dead.
Ace go back to the bunker.

And this is one reason we love Galahad.

 

[KennethC]

Boy oh boy. Here goes. You know, if people would just leave out their assumptions and their opinions and feelings, and just speak the truth, how much easier this would be.
Here's goes. I'll have to copy the brackets to break up your responses. I should have known.


Genesis 9:6. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Now Ken, watch this. Please. Your statement "Putting one to death does not fit under love..."
God gave the command to put to the death murderer. That's not love! God not love!


Jesus is teaching disciples. They are Jews. He is teaching them the spirit of the Law. It is a personal application of the Law. It has nothing to do with a Christian supporting the DP. Where's the connection?
Apply your conclusion of Matthew 5:38-42 to your support of life in prison!


Why? It's not my place to forgive Isis. I don't forgive them. You do? Jesus in the sermon on the mount is not making a new law that overrides principles expressed before, during, or after the Law.


Isis is never going to ask. Many on death row are not going to ask. If they ask, I probably wouldn't know. Regardless, if I forgive someone who murdered my family, that does not mean I am unforgiveable just because I support the DP.
Don't destroy Isis, they haven't asked for forgiveness yet. And when they ask of me, I must forgive. This is silly. Remember, there is the State and there is the individual. Okay.

4)

Did the Lord have those in the bible such as Moses, David, and Paul put to death when they murdered ??? No, therefore repenting and being under grace by faith in the Lord releases one from the curse of the law !!![/QUTOE]
Unbelievable! Moses. He was in Egypt. It was Egypt's call to apply DP to Moses. David? Who told you David murdered? I asked that to Ace in the bunker, he never answered it. Who told you David committed adultery? Otherwise, what are you referring to?



Someone did. That's right. We'll see.




I have never murdered. I am not guilty of murder. Not in the distorted sense you think I am. I was never obligated to keep the Sabbath.
Even if I were guilty as you suggest, and then forgiven, my forgiveness from God would not make void or nullify Genesis 9:6.



No, should you put me away for life. You know. Life in prison!


I do not base my support for the death penalty on the curse of the Law. That's your error in your assumption and your tweaking of the Law as if it were to apply to the secular state.


Question: Did you read verses 28-32 of Matthew 5? That's your pretext. Are you willing to apply them as you do the other verses you quoted from that same text?

First the Lord Jesus made changes from the old covenant to the new covenant, and until you realize that this is a fruitless debate with you because you will continue to cling to the letter of the law instead of walking by the Spirit.

Second we are all disciples of Christ, not just the Jews, so what He said to them applies to us.

Lord Jesus said in response to the OT law to love your neighbor but hate your enemy (Leviticus 1-2, 9-18);

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Making excuses for Moses just because he was in Egypt, and the word of God says that David murdered and committed adultery,
You did not address Paul though, and what about those that murdered Stephen that Paul was responsible for ???

Nope no putting to death in any of those cases, and God could have put it in others hearts to have it done but He didn't !!!

So you are trying to force the law and the curse of the law on another, but now you are trying to say you are exempt from it ???

I see the curse of the law is fine for others as long as you don't have to deal with it yourself, in other words you are saying it is fine to cast stones at others even though you are guilty of sin.

Actually you are basing it on the law because the life for a life is part of the 613 Mosaic written ordinance laws, just because you try to use the Genesis 9:6 mention of it does not negate that it is old covenant standards to obey.

What does Matthew 5:28-32 have to do with what is being said besides they are pointing out sinful ways as well and eliminating them from your life ???

If you do not realize changes were made between the two covenants standards I don't know what else to say to you !!!

 

[KennethC]

I agree! Did you check out the article? I thought it was a good article.

No just saw that quote and it does not sit right with me....................

 

[blue_ladybug]

First an Ace in the bunker. Then a bird. Now a not so Lady ladybug. Shew.

Ace takes a swing. Ball knocks PW out of the tree. And lands on ladybug. Dead.
Ace go back to the bunker.

Don't you wish you had wings, like me? bwahaha

 

[AceMichaels]

I think he's a sick individual! I'm not participating anymore.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Don't you wish you had wings, like me? bwahaha

I've got a parachute!

 

[tourist]

I think he's a sick individual! I'm not participating anymore.

Actually, he is nice and at times, very amusing.

 

[Galahad]

No just saw that quote and it does not sit right with me....................

Missouri, does it leave you in misery?

 

[Galahad]

Boy oh boy. Here goes. You know, if people would just leave out their assumptions and their opinions and feelings, and just speak the truth, how much easier this would be.
Here's goes. I'll have to copy the brackets to break up your responses. I should have known.


Genesis 9:6. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Now Ken, watch this. Please. Your statement "Putting one to death does not fit under love..."
God gave the command to put to the death murderer. That's not love! God not love!


Jesus is teaching disciples. They are Jews. He is teaching them the spirit of the Law. It is a personal application of the Law. It has nothing to do with a Christian supporting the DP. Where's the connection?
Apply your conclusion of Matthew 5:38-42 to your support of life in prison!


Why? It's not my place to forgive Isis. I don't forgive them. You do? Jesus in the sermon on the mount is not making a new law that overrides principles expressed before, during, or after the Law.


Isis is never going to ask. Many on death row are not going to ask. If they ask, I probably wouldn't know. Regardless, if I forgive someone who murdered my family, that does not mean I am unforgiveable just because I support the DP.
Don't destroy Isis, they haven't asked for forgiveness yet. And when they ask of me, I must forgive. This is silly. Remember, there is the State and there is the individual. Okay.




First the Lord Jesus made changes from the old covenant to the new covenant, and until you realize that this is a fruitless debate with you because you will continue to cling to the letter of the law instead of walking by the Spirit.

Second we are all disciples of Christ, not just the Jews, so what He said to them applies to us.

Lord Jesus said in response to the OT law to love your neighbor but hate your enemy (Leviticus 1-2, 9-18);

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Making excuses for Moses just because he was in Egypt, and the word of God says that David murdered and committed adultery,
You did not address Paul though, and what about those that murdered Stephen that Paul was responsible for ???

Nope no putting to death in any of those cases, and God could have put it in others hearts to have it done but He didn't !!!

So you are trying to force the law and the curse of the law on another, but now you are trying to say you are exempt from it ???

I see the curse of the law is fine for others as long as you don't have to deal with it yourself, in other words you are saying it is fine to cast stones at others even though you are guilty of sin.

Actually you are basing it on the law because the life for a life is part of the 613 Mosaic written ordinance laws, just because you try to use the Genesis 9:6 mention of it does not negate that it is old covenant standards to obey.

What does Matthew 5:28-32 have to do with what is being said besides they are pointing out sinful ways as well and eliminating them from your life ???

If you do not realize changes were made between the two covenants standards I don't know what else to say to you !!!

Ken, you asked about Moses. The Lord didn't put him to death. Moses was in Egypt. The Egyptians weren't under any obligation to put him to death or not. Furthermore, the Law of Moses wasn't given while Moses was in Egypt. Moses not being put to death fails as a valid argument in your favor.

David? You ask about David. Why didn't the Lord have him put to death? How do you know he committed adultery and murder? Guilty of both. Okay. There were no witnesses to his crime. The Lord who knows all things said there has to be two witnesses in order for the death penalty to be carried out. Don't you see that?

Paul? Who would put him to death? The Sanhedrin? For crying out loud. They are the ones who were wanting Paul to imprison and vote against Christians. They wanted Paul to succeed. Who would put him to death?

Stephen? Who would his murderers to death? The ones stoning him were the religious leaders. They thought he was blaspheming God, so they stoned him to death.

Everything Jesus said to the Jews applies to us? In what sense. He commanded them to wash feet. Are you a foot washer. It's okay if you are, but you miss the point. Did Jesus tell the Jews to pay the temple tax? Do you? Send it to Jerusalem. They need the money to build a new temple. Do you keep the Sabbath? Amazing. I am not a Jew. I don't follow the Law of Moses. Okay. I am a Christian.

I see the problem. You believe we are to obey the Old Law. I don't.
And you misapply terms such as love, mercy, forgiveness.

You are inconsistent. "Forgive the murderer. Release him from the DP. But not from life in prison." Absurd. But that's because you misapply forgiveness.

Concerning Genesis 9:6, question: What's the principle there? It's real simple. I mean no insult when I say that. Just copy and paste part of the verse. What's the principle in Genesis 9:6?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I think he's a sick individual! I'm not participating anymore.

Seriously though -- If you hang in there we'll keep him on a short leash, as best as we can. He does sometimes need a muzzle, but it irritates his cute little baby-face.

What I mean to say, is that if you would seriously like to continue to discuss whatever you and Galahad were discussing -- we'll do our best to help bridge the communication gap when necessary.

 

[Galahad]

I think he's a sick individual! I'm not participating anymore.

Ace, I am. I am very sick. See it all started when I was born. I inherited mortality.

Just kidding Ace. I am. Ace in the hole.

What did I write that was so terrible. I responded to posts. Asked for clarity. For proof.

My sincerest apologies to you Ace. I will not hold you to proving that I insulted or belittled others. Okay.

Let's move forward.

I apologize to you.