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K
Reread what I said and you will see that I did address all that you asked, and again love, mercy, and forgiveness is to be shown to all people not just certain people.
You can not override forgiving and showing love and mercy to the one who commits the sin just to show love and mercy to the one/s the sin was done to.
This also works vise versa as well you can not have the love and mercy to the victim override showing love, mercy, and forgiveness to the one who committed the sin.
We were shown love, mercy, and forgiveness by the Lord while we were still sinners deserving of death, but we were pardoned by the law and released from the curse. We are told to show that same standard toward all others !!!
Based upon a highly un-scientific sampling of the posts made here (including previous threads), I would say more are against than are for. Based upon a highly un-scientific sampling of the posts made here. And as much as I wish I could wield such power, the divisiveness began waaay before I made this comment. Yes Barly we do agree on a lot. Does that mean we have to agree on everything? Not that I've really taken a position on the issue. Just pointing out some incongruities.
No we can't lump everyone under a title, but more often than not I find republicans tend to 1. claim Christ and 2 support the death penalty. Yes there are some who don't but when talking political parties and such you have to go with what the majority under that banner claim. But true there are exceptions.
Same with the democrats. Equally horrendous. That's why I always come back to the mantra, VOTE 3RD PARTY!
Thanks
All Christians CLAIM to follow the Bible, but as the BDF's so aptly show, what the Bible says falls under a lot of differing opinions.
I think Gen 9:6 is superseded by Christ's admonition that the one without sin throw the first stone (John 8:7). I don't think Christ necessarily negated Gen 9:6, He just set a standard for who should enforce it. Which, as far as I can tell, would qualify none of us.
All Christians CLAIM to follow the Bible, but as the BDF's so aptly show, what the Bible says falls under a lot of differing opinions.
I think Gen 9:6 is superseded by Christ's admonition that the one without sin throw the first stone (John 8:7). I don't think Christ necessarily negated Gen 9:6, He just set a standard for who should enforce it. Which, as far as I can tell, would qualify none of us.
Now your just adding to the word which you do quite regularly...blasphemy of the HS is attributing the works of Christ unto the power of the devil which I did not do....so...it is evident who you actually follow...he added to the word in the garden!
And for the record....You proclaim works, self reliance and an assisted salvation because Christ is not powerful enough to keep one who has believed into him saved, sealed and eternally justified!
G
Mine Page 8/ 160:
You stated that you are opposed to the DP because of mercy, love, forgiveness.
But when we apply that mercy, love, and forgiveness to life in prison. You sing a different tune.
Ridiculous. Opposed to the death penalty because we are to forgive.
"Love and mercy requires protection for others as well, it can not be just one sided." Where's the forgiveness?
"Mercy can't be just one sided."
"Love can't be just one sided."
But you didn't include forgiveness, why?
Love, mercy, forgiveness, one sided?
Genesis 9:6 The Lord is for the death penalty in that verse. Yes He is. What is the basis of the DP according to the Lord?
Ken, who are we to forgive? When are we to forgive? Does our forgiving someone of murder make null and void the command in Genesis 9:6?
You assume keeping a murder alive on death row is an act of love toward the family of the murdered victim. Where did you come with that assumption?
Yours Page 9/ 168:
I did to include forgiveness as here is my quote;
Love, mercy, and forgiveness is to be shown to all people not just victims, and not just offenders, but both equally !!!
If you are talking about why I did not mention it for victims, why would a victim need to be forgiven as they are the one the sin was done to, not the one who committed the sin.
Once again Genesis 9:6 is part of the old covenants standards, not the new covenant as the Lord said we are to show love, mercy, and forgiveness instead and then He also adds we are to pray, do good to them.
We walk by the perfect law of liberty (Christ teaching and commands from the gospels), not the oldness of the letter of the law from the old covenant.
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Now here are the questions left unanswered. Remember, they are related to your anti-DP. Okay. According to you, DP is wrong because WE are to have mercy, love, forgiveness.
Below are the questions you did not answer. Where did you answer them? (I've numbered the pasted questions below for clarity.)
1. Genesis 9:6 The Lord is for the death penalty in that verse. Yes He is. What is the basis of the DP according to the Lord?
2. Ken, who are we to forgive?
3. When are we to forgive?
4. Does our forgiving someone of murder make null and void the command in Genesis 9:6?
5. You assume keeping a murder alive on death row is an act of love toward the family of the murdered victim. Where did you come with that assumption?
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P
I don't know how many here have been the victim of a violent crime. I have been twice
My brother and my daughter are no longer with us.
They were not capital crimes but non the less it takes its tolls. Years and years of sorry,grief, anger, hurt, even as a born again child of God it hurts so bad.
We can forgive but it doesn't replace. We can forgive but it doesn't dull the hurt. These are the frailitys of man.
I am not God that I can to choose to forget, I am me who God made. By his strength I learn to live with this hurt like no other,
By his word he comforts me with a hope. Believe me I have days when you would not want to be around me. These same days visit my wife, my son's, my mom in till she passed. My grandkids, and many others.
I do not limit God and his power to save in the last hour as I posted before. But if power were given to me to end the life of a non remorseful degenerative person who's pleasure was to inflict this type of pain, or they consider them selves judge, jury, and executioner over another's life....well I think you know my answer.
My brother and my daughter are no longer with us.
They were not capital crimes but non the less it takes its tolls. Years and years of sorry,grief, anger, hurt, even as a born again child of God it hurts so bad.
We can forgive but it doesn't replace. We can forgive but it doesn't dull the hurt. These are the frailitys of man.
I am not God that I can to choose to forget, I am me who God made. By his strength I learn to live with this hurt like no other,
By his word he comforts me with a hope. Believe me I have days when you would not want to be around me. These same days visit my wife, my son's, my mom in till she passed. My grandkids, and many others.
I do not limit God and his power to save in the last hour as I posted before. But if power were given to me to end the life of a non remorseful degenerative person who's pleasure was to inflict this type of pain, or they consider them selves judge, jury, and executioner over another's life....well I think you know my answer.
G
When someone says "Galahad, you did not answer my question." I don't just say "Yes I did." And leave it at that. I try to remember to include a copy of my answer or where I did answer or I clarify my answer, reword it.
But don't just say over and over "I answered it." "Go back and read it." Ken, I did not, do not see where you answered it. Okay. Now I've gone back and had to retrieve several posts. Would you be gracious to me as you would be to a murderer and supply the post # or the exact answers with my questions. Thank you!
Not always that thorough, depends if I think the person is playing games. Or just out right unreasonable.
But don't just say over and over "I answered it." "Go back and read it." Ken, I did not, do not see where you answered it. Okay. Now I've gone back and had to retrieve several posts. Would you be gracious to me as you would be to a murderer and supply the post # or the exact answers with my questions. Thank you!
Not always that thorough, depends if I think the person is playing games. Or just out right unreasonable.
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G
Please! Hold your quick thoughts. I have a dozen of those. You really want to cloud the issue. That was just a quick thought. See what you do? I will report you for wasting my time. Either get serious and post truth and work with me on this, or be kind enough to tell me you are just here to juggle abstractions and ambiguity as a literary show. Seriously. Thank you!
G
Ken, I see you are listed as one browsing this thread. Perhaps you're just camping. Well, if you are active, I posted the above post about 20 minutes ago. Still no response from you. Now if you're not just camping here in the thread, but are actually active, why have you not responded to my questions above?
Why would I ask that? Because according to you, you already answered them! All you would have to do is copy and paste your responses.
Why would I ask that? Because according to you, you already answered them! All you would have to do is copy and paste your responses.
K
1) Putting one to death does not fit under love, mercy, and forgiveness to the one who committed the sin
(I did answer this one already multiple times)
Lord said no to an eye for eye, tooth for a tooth and if you look at Exodus 21:23-36 you will see that a life for a life is in that ordinance that Jesus is referring to in Matthew 5:38-42.
2) We are to show forgiveness to all who have sinned, as we were forgiven of ours.
(I answered this way before also)
3) We are to forgive when they ask for it, but that asking does not always happen right away and it is not our place to force an apology out of a person by shorting their lifespan. Going that route most of the time will most likely lead to a false confession just to get out of punishment. Real repentance must be given time to come from the heart !!!
4) Did the Lord have those in the bible such as Moses, David, and Paul put to death when they murdered ??? No, therefore repenting and being under grace by faith in the Lord releases one from the curse of the law !!!
5) I highlighted your number 5 because that is your assumption, not mine, because I never said keeping a murderer alive shows love to the victims family.
What I said is that keeping them alive shows love, mercy, and forgiveness to the one who committed the murder.
Please do not twist my words to say something I didn't, and again love must be shown to both the victim/victims family and the one who committed the murder/sin. You can not do away with one over the other or you are disobeying the Lord to show love and mercy to all, and to forgive those who sin as you have been forgiven.
Once again have you committed adultery (this includes just looking lustfully at another woman), have you murdered (this includes showing hatred to another), have you worked on the Sabbath, and have you broken any other commandments or laws that required the death penalty in the OT ???
Should we put you or the rest of us in the electric chair or lethal injection then and be killed ???
If not why ???
For if the curse of the law still applies to this one sin why does it not apply to the others ???
(I did answer this one already multiple times)
Lord said no to an eye for eye, tooth for a tooth and if you look at Exodus 21:23-36 you will see that a life for a life is in that ordinance that Jesus is referring to in Matthew 5:38-42.
2) We are to show forgiveness to all who have sinned, as we were forgiven of ours.
(I answered this way before also)
3) We are to forgive when they ask for it, but that asking does not always happen right away and it is not our place to force an apology out of a person by shorting their lifespan. Going that route most of the time will most likely lead to a false confession just to get out of punishment. Real repentance must be given time to come from the heart !!!
4) Did the Lord have those in the bible such as Moses, David, and Paul put to death when they murdered ??? No, therefore repenting and being under grace by faith in the Lord releases one from the curse of the law !!!
5) I highlighted your number 5 because that is your assumption, not mine, because I never said keeping a murderer alive shows love to the victims family.
What I said is that keeping them alive shows love, mercy, and forgiveness to the one who committed the murder.
Please do not twist my words to say something I didn't, and again love must be shown to both the victim/victims family and the one who committed the murder/sin. You can not do away with one over the other or you are disobeying the Lord to show love and mercy to all, and to forgive those who sin as you have been forgiven.
Once again have you committed adultery (this includes just looking lustfully at another woman), have you murdered (this includes showing hatred to another), have you worked on the Sabbath, and have you broken any other commandments or laws that required the death penalty in the OT ???
Should we put you or the rest of us in the electric chair or lethal injection then and be killed ???
If not why ???
For if the curse of the law still applies to this one sin why does it not apply to the others ???
P
K
That is actually a bad phrase that was started because it initially says I don't care where they end up that's not my problem.
Problem with that is that we are called in the ministry to bring people to repentance, and we by the Holy Spirit are placed as overseers of the flock. There are multiple examples in the bible that says we are to reprove and rebuke others and the follow it up with exhortation and esteeming all by the word of God. This phrase gives no place for any of that !!!
Problem with that is that we are called in the ministry to bring people to repentance, and we by the Holy Spirit are placed as overseers of the flock. There are multiple examples in the bible that says we are to reprove and rebuke others and the follow it up with exhortation and esteeming all by the word of God. This phrase gives no place for any of that !!!