PROPHETS: A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE

[RussellJBenigno]

That's pretty much where I am wondering with my question. To put it another way, is prophet like a stratified and distinct office, or is it more like a gift that any Christian can utilize? I am not too sure on the answer, though I kind of lean more towards what you conclude here that there may be distinct prophets that go about specific prophetic tasks (such as the OT prophets), and at the same time everyone can prophesy, as it is the spirit of prophesy is the testimony of Jesus.

I'm not settled though on the conclusion, but it is worth studying I believe. I like your answers.

All your questions are answered below about specific office and gift. The gifts are not the same as the office. The gifts are for all, but not so the office. So you are correct to say, "there may be distinct prophets that go about specific prophetic tasks (such as the OT prophets), and at the same time everyone can prophesy.", which many are at a lose to comrprhend.
(Eph 4:11-12 [AKJV])
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

(1Cor 12:7-11 [AKJV])
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit with. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these works that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

(1Cor 12:14 [AKJV])
For the body is not one member, but many.
(1Cor 12:18 [AKJV])
But now has God set the members every one of them in the body, as it has pleased him.
(1Cor 12:20 [AKJV])
But now are they many members, yet but one body.
(1Cor 12:21 [AKJV])
And the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

(1Cor 12:28-30 [AKJV])
And God has set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

These are the gift of prophecying.
(1Cor 14:1 [AKJV])
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that you may prophesy.
(1Cor 14:3 [AKJV])
But he that prophesies speaks to men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
(1Cor 14:24 [AKJV])
But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believes not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

 

[convallaria]

All your questions are answered below about specific office and gift. The gifts are not the same as the office. The gifts are for all, but not so the office. So you are correct to say, "there may be distinct prophets that go about specific prophetic tasks (such as the OT prophets), and at the same time everyone can prophesy.", which many are at a lose to comrprhend.
(Eph 4:11-12 [AKJV])
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

(1Cor 12:7-11 [AKJV])
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit with. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these works that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

(1Cor 12:14 [AKJV])
For the body is not one member, but many.
(1Cor 12:18 [AKJV])
But now has God set the members every one of them in the body, as it has pleased him.
(1Cor 12:20 [AKJV])
But now are they many members, yet but one body.
(1Cor 12:21 [AKJV])
And the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

(1Cor 12:28-30 [AKJV])
And God has set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

These are the gift of prophecying.
(1Cor 14:1 [AKJV])
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that you may prophesy.
(1Cor 14:3 [AKJV])
But he that prophesies speaks to men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
(1Cor 14:24 [AKJV])
But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believes not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

Thanks Russell!

 

[RussellJBenigno]

... I don't think there are any new revelations, but there still are prophets. One doesn't need a new revelation to be a prophet. Wouldn't they merely have to testify to that which is all ready revealed, namely the testimony of Jesus?...

It is not so much revealing something new, but revealing what is already there. They are revealing end time Revelation hidden in the text. I don't see the prophets of now adding anything to the scripture. I see them revealing the mysteries already written, but not understood.

 

[posthuman]

for example, we have a prophet coming up to Paul and telling him, in fact illustrating, what would happen to Paul if he continued on his way to Jerusalem

10After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11Coming over to us, he took Paul’s belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, “The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’ ”12When we heard this, we and the people there pleaded with Paul not to go up to Jerusalem. 13Then Paul answered, “Why are you weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.” 14When he would not be dissuaded, we gave up and said, “The Lord’s will be done.”

i've heard it pointed out that Agabus didn't give any new or revalatory information here, but confirmed what the Spirit had also already revealed to Paul through many others, in re:

And now, compelled by the Spirit, I am going to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there.I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me.However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me — the task of testifying to the good news of God’s grace.
(Acts 20:22-24)​

but this isn't the only time Agabus is mentioned in Acts --

Now in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. And one of them named Agabus stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world (this took place in the days of Claudius). So the disciples determined, every one according to his ability, to send relief to the brothers living in Judea. And they did so, sending it to the elders by the hand of Barnabas and Saul.
(Acts 11:27-30)​

so this Agabus had already been 'tested' according to Deuteronomy, having by the Spirit foretold events that were proven to come to pass. Claudius (according to biblehub) reigned from 37-41 AD and Paul's journey back to Jerusalem took place around 53-58 AD.

it can also be pointed out though, as a criticism of this view, that in Acts 20 Paul only knew that 'hardship' was waiting for him, but through the Spirit Agabus told him of the specific hardship - being bound, and by implication, arrested.

it's not recorded how this Agabus presented himself in the intervening years - whether he went around with "i'm a prophet of God" embroidered on his tunic or not, for example, but such an idea seems contrary to the meekness that's encouraged in many other places. it does seem clear that he had a reputation by the time of Acts 20, and in Acts 11 he's identified with a group of 'prophets' that came from Jerusalem.

similar groups of prophets are mentioned elsewhere, for example -

As Saul turned to leave Samuel, God changed Saul’s heart, and all these signs were fulfilled that day.When he and his servant arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came powerfully upon him, and he joined in their prophesying. When all those who had formerly known him saw him prophesying with the prophets, they asked each other, “What is this that has happened to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?”
(1 Samuel 10:9-11)​

so -- who are these men? why are they called 'prophets' and why did the people find it odd that Saul joined in with them? look, Saul prophesied! how many times do we call Saul a prophet though? maybe not enough, or maybe we shouldn't. Amos also gives some insight about this:

Then Amos answered and said to Amaziah, “I was no prophet, nor a prophet’s son, but I was a herdsman and a dresser of sycamore figs. But the LORD took me from following the flock, and the LORD said to me, ‘Go, prophesy to my people Israel.’ "
(Amos 7:14-15) ​

it seems clear that there were 'schools' of prophets, that might commonly be a thing passed down through families. but it is also clear from Amos and Saul (and other well known prophets) that such places were by no means the only source of 'prophets'

my guess about this is that prophesying in this sense amounts to speaking God's word to the people - and i would suppose that these 'schools of prophets' were people who devoted themselves to prayer and study of the scriptures, differing from priests in that they didn't perform sacraments or concentrate on teaching the law. there are many examples of OT kings seeking out such prophets for divination, to know what the Lord would say about whether they should go out and fight or not for example - so they were people who were known to have insight into the mind of God, particularly to be able to tell - from the Spirit - what the outcome of events would be.

now like GodIsSalvation is pointing out -- we all have the mind of Christ. we all have the Spirit - the same one who rested on the prophets of older times. we all ((should)) be studying the scriptures and devoting ourselves to knowing God's will -- which in a sense makes us all 'prophets'

i'm inclined to agree with the opinion that the 'office' of prophet is no more (in re: Hebrews 1:1) and that all believers have in them the capacity to prophesy, because the Spirit is in us, the same one who gives true prophesy. also that prophesy is not always 'telling the future' -- but more specifically, communicating the mind & will of God.

whenever i meet someone who says "i am a prophet" it doesn't sit well with me, especially when it's not followed by "thus saith the Lord" but instead by some more info on themselves and idle chat. this seems to me like either they don't understand what they're saying about themselves, or they're boasting about having a station that really all of us have. i certainly don't feel comfortable calling myself a prophet, though i may have prophesied, when the Spirit has led me to write something here - like many of you too -- i'm no different than the rest of you, in Christ, but we're all used by Him to do various things at various times. and in Christ -- the least of us is greater than the greatest of prophets. the Spirit in me says "don't call yourself a prophet, but nothing more than a servant."

Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
(Mathew 11:11)
​

and this John is the one who says "i must decrease, and He must increase" -- so anyone who wants to increase themselves calling themselves a prophet - yeah, i'm wary of at the onset. that doesn't mean i despise prophecy by any means. but i'm certainly going to break out my fine-toothed comb when people announce themselves that way, because we're also taught to 'test the spirits' !!

 

[posthuman]

The gifts are not the same as the office. The gifts are for all, but not so the office.

the office was present before Christ.
men & women prophesied when they were moved by the Spirit of God - and this Spirit was not present in all who believed & honored Him then, as it is now.
now, all who confess and put their trust in Christ are sealed by the Spirit.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
(Hebrews 1:1-2)
​

so what does that say about whether the office is still operative now, in these last days?
before, men had to go to a prophet of the Lord in order to know the mind of God.
before, men had to go to a priest of the Lord in order to make supplication before Him.

and now .. ?

what function does the office of priest have, that's not available to all believers? are we not all made priests? can we not all through Christ enter into the holy of holies?
why should we seek out a priest today, and not by the Spirit, seek God through Christ?

what function does the office of prophet have, that's not available to all believers? do we not all have the Spirit to guide us into all truth? do we not all have the mind of Christ, if we would submit ourselves to it?
why should we seek out a prophet today? and not by the Spirit, seek God through Christ?

this is what i want to know, and why i have been hard with you, Russ. because in your profile, you are even bolder than this: you say you are an Apostle. that you hold the "office" of Apostle.
what am i to make of that?
as the Lord's servant, i should certainly test you, and reprove you if you are found lacking.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

the office was present before Christ.
men & women prophesied when they were moved by the Spirit of God - and this Spirit was not present in all who believed & honored Him then, as it is now.
now, all who confess and put their trust in Christ are sealed by the Spirit.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
(Hebrews 1:1-2)
​

so what does that say about whether the office is still operative now, in these last days?
before, men had to go to a prophet of the Lord in order to know the mind of God.
before, men had to go to a priest of the Lord in order to make supplication before Him.

and now .. ?

what function does the office of priest have, that's not available to all believers? are we not all made priests? can we not all through Christ enter into the holy of holies?
why should we seek out a priest today, and not by the Spirit, seek God through Christ?

what function does the office of prophet have, that's not available to all believers? do we not all have the Spirit to guide us into all truth? do we not all have the mind of Christ, if we would submit ourselves to it?
why should we seek out a prophet today? and not by the Spirit, seek God through Christ?

this is what i want to know, and why i have been hard with you, Russ. because in your profile, you are even bolder than this: you say you are an Apostle. that you hold the "office" of Apostle.
what am i to make of that?
as the Lord's servant, i should certainly test you, and reprove you if you are found lacking.

And I have been hard with you because you have in the past and just now ignored every verse that has been posted which speaks against what you just wrote. You are rationalizing away the scripture to support your vain imagination. Alright you disagree with me fine. Paul disagrees with you and you disagree with him. I posted what Paul said. I didn't say those things. I post what the scripture states and people get angry with me as though I said it. Your arguing against scripture, not me. If you don't like the scripture, take it up with God and leave me out of it.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Russ. because in your profile, you are even bolder than this: you say you are an Apostle. that you hold the "office" of Apostle.
what am i to make of that?
as the Lord's servant, i should certainly test you, and reprove you if you are found lacking.

If you just took the time to apply to yourself what you apply to me you'd see how your proud, boastful, judgmental, and not following the scripture; instead of worrying about who I am and how God see me. God sets people into the body of Christ as He see's fit and He has not relinquished that position to you, nor will He anytime in the future. So get over it and look at yourself.

 

[ember]

If they speak as a prophet it had better be truth...none of this 'I'm practicing my office' stuff.

For sure. There has been enough hot air around here lately to compete with a balloon festival

unfortuneatly, the balloons are harmless...the words are not

 

[ember]

Crossnote that is your view of things stirred up by a few on here who have refused exhortation because of pride. Read the section on the prophetic in the article that jb sent here: it is very good. In it you will see the functions of the prophets in the New Testament church and maybe get a more accurate view of what is going on here.

look here....every single thread you appear on, contention and arguing follows as sure as night follows day

are you so jealous of a little activity without your 'supervision' that you have to come here and start up?

I have no respect for what you are doing and neither you nor your pet prophet are prophets

you cause division...the Holy Spirit brings people together in Christ

how lame is it that you have to come here and try to spoil a peaceful discussion...you are extremely manipulative

 

[ember]

crossnote:

ember, no offense but I just don't do well with long posts...too much to respond to. I'll just say this, that distinguishing between 'the Holy Spirit says' and 'the Lord says' is a bit contrived since they are both God.

I don't find it to be so. the Holy Spirit did not indwell believers in OT times as He does now

thanks

 

[ember]

That article is full of scripture, so please have a read

The Bible...I mean call it coincidence...but the Bible is also full of scripture!

Why do you have a problem with people reading the Bible, studying the Bible and praying for God to show them the truth?

Could it be because you cannot manipulate the Holy Spirit even though you constantly tell us how full of knowledge you are?

Get over yourself!

you had me fooled in the other thread but I am on to your manipulations now and seriously? you cause trouble every thread you are in!

 

[ember]

If you just took the time to apply to yourself what you apply to me you'd see how your proud, boastful, judgmental, and not following the scripture; instead of worrying about who I am and how God see me. God sets people into the body of Christ as He see's fit and He has not relinquished that position to you, nor will He anytime in the future. So get over it and look at yourself.

You are not a prophet

Your friend is not a prophet

neither of you have any power over anyone here...you operate on a basis of continuing attempts to control control and control some more

there are many like you...many...which is why the church is in such bad shape

nothing changes...people are like sheep and you false prophets take advantage of that

in your case...you attempt to instill fear in order to control

in the other case? well, the Bible says where there are many words, sin is also present...look it up in Proverbs

 

[ember]

I did not start this thread to tell people what to do or to tell them they are inferior and need to listen to self proclaimed prophets

This is a forum...for DISCUSSION...yet we have two people here who insist that only they know anything and one of them, Russell, is in the habit of condemning those who call him out on his so called prophecies and extremely bizarre interpretations of the Bible

I did not start this thread to discuss anything other than scripture itself...with the intention that people are free to exchange ideas and free to agree or disagree

we all have got to understand that God does not operate in the way that Convallaria and Russell are trying to teach

Their appearance and consequent desire to control this thread, manipulate the discussion and undermine anything that has gone before, is evidence of a desire to put people in bondage to their words

some of you know that...others are undecided....russell has been called out in several threads by longtime members here as a false prophet...I have called him out as a false prophet

I am sorry this thread has taken a nosedive...I enjoy discussion and I very much enjoy the input of others...from a biblical perspective, that is how it should be

we, as the body of Christ share and build each other up...these two are ripping apart and tearing down

this is just a simple forum format...but it gives a picture of what happens in a church when a rebellious spirit comes in...and starts to undermine the leadership

I am not calling myself leadership...that would be ridiculous to do so here...I am saying, however, that these two just ruined fellowship among believers who were being courteous and looking into the Bible for themselves

I am angry and disappointed for all of us

 

[NewEagle]

Just a reminder. Please take any personal offenses that develop during the thread discussion off thread or if that is not an option then please remain on topic.

 

[crossnote]

In practice, because we know in part and we prophesy in part as Paul says in 1 Cor 13:9, there will be things heard that are not spoken 100% accurately, because spiritual things are sometimes hard to explain with a fleshly tongue. Any prophet of these church times would to some extent have to learn how to accurately speak what they hear. We are told not to despise prophesyings so we need to be in an environment where they are likely to happen for starters, and then we ourselves may ask the Lord for the gift of interpretation, if we feel someone else is interpreting wrongly.

If you have a look at that article from jb it will help you understand the heart of God in providing us with prophets: it is a good thing and we need that discipline and authority in the church. Without it, it is not surprising so many get stuck in false doctrine all pasted in place by the bondage of false authority.

The Words of a true prophet are from God ...no practice needed. You are just making excuses for false prophets to be wrong at times.

 

[crossnote]

That article is full of scripture, so please have a read

Oh, are you saying God's Word is insufficient? Give me it's main point if you want me to read it so bad.

 

[crossnote]

It is not so much revealing something new, but revealing what is already there. They are revealing end time Revelation hidden in the text. I don't see the prophets of now adding anything to the scripture. I see them revealing the mysteries already written, but not understood.

Paul and John already did that. What you describe we call teachers.

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul and John already did that. What you describe we call teachers.

Amen and the word revelation means to reveal, to take the cover off......Jesus dia John has REVEALED REVELATION and there are no new revelations....people who claim to be a prophet are self indulgent and promote themselves.....

 

[posthuman]

Your arguing against scripture, not me. .

Russ, when you say you're an apostle, and someone calls you out on it, they're not arguing against scripture. no scripture says "Russ is an apostle." they're contending with your words alone. Christ appointed 12 apostles, and called Paul to take Judas' place -- and we know their names, and none of them happen to be you. maybe it would be edifying for us all if you made a new thread and explained why you think you are an apostle.

as far as this thread, why don't you explain why you think Hebrews 1:1-2 contradicts 1 Corinthians, or answer my questions about what a prophet in the OT sense provided access to that is not available to all believers, or explain how your assertion that prophets in the NT era do not foretell future doesn't contradict the example i posted of Agabus in Acts 11:27-30?

because if you really are a pastor, a teacher, a prophet, and more than all that an apostle --
shouldn't you be revealing the mysteries of God instead of spilling curses out of your mouth?
this thread was trying to determine the nature of prophets from what we can see written in the scripture. if you're really the authority on it, please don't waste your time accusing me without explanation, and think you're done with it just because 'Russ has spoken.' show me what i said that was wrong, and show us all the correct way, ok?
like an actual apostle would do.

 

[convallaria]

The Bible...I mean call it coincidence...but the Bible is also full of scripture!

Why do you have a problem with people reading the Bible, studying the Bible and praying for God to show them the truth?

Could it be because you cannot manipulate the Holy Spirit even though you constantly tell us how full of knowledge you are?

Get over yourself!

you had me fooled in the other thread but I am on to your manipulations now and seriously? you cause trouble every thread you are in!

More lies and false accusation ember, dear me. I was actually trying to help crossnote (hence smiley face which you forgot to delete) and you have accused me of causing division and many other things that you think make you look like the innocent one. I have peace about all I write. You however cannot possibly have that same peace because you are making totally false accusations constantly and trying to turn people against me. That in itself is not worrying to me, somewhat to be expected... but in doing so you turn people against the proper teaching jb brought, which he did also to help others.

God sees your heart.