Is the Old Testament the Old Law? Should we Follow it?

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Should we follow the Old Law?

  • Total voters
    15
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davidb87

Guest
#81
#81
My conclusion:

I will follow the old law as jesus said, dont commit adultery, etc all those Good laws that god created for us humans to live a better life.

If you dont want to follow it then dont, but I know for a fact god wont preach it once, then just tell everyone forget about it.

One person told us to forget about it, and thats who we listened to. Which is sad.

Thats why most christians today will have premarital sex like its no big deal, thats why they will steal we have left gods laws and I wont be apart of it.
 
D

davidb87

Guest
#82
#82
Also to be honest I also believe the Old testament had some additions to it, which makes me scared as well now.

I dont believe god would have slayed 400,000 innocent lives and tell someone to kill a non believer.

For gods sake the Koran doesnt even say that. Maybe thats why over time we have decided not to follow the old testament.

But if every book got edited what do i follow?

I will just go to god and ask him for the truth and show me the light, I dont want to live a life of lies.


** Thank you everyone, please i was just speaking my mind in last few posts.
Do not reply with disrespect please. If there is anymore arguments i will just delete this post**
Thank you for your opinions
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#83
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#83
davidb87 said:
I didnt say i was right,, I am making it clear that I am not sure with what is right or wrong.
I am only a student looking for some more light.

And yes, I believe most of what paul says means nothing to be honest.. If you want me to show you why I could. but thats another topic.
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If "what paul says means nothing" then his letters, which Peter considered as wisdom from God and as scripture, then they would not be apart of the word of God and that because God would not have allowed his word to be polluted. You must be careful in this belief and that because it is one of those that are eternal life threatening. Peter said that there were some who were ignorant and unstable people who were distorting Paul's letters and they that were doing so to their own destruction. Here is the scripture regarding this:

"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." (2 Pet.3:15)

Take notice that Peter referred to Paul as "our dear brother" and that what he wrote was "wisdom that God gave him" and that he considered his letters as scripture. He refers to those who distort them as "Ignorant and unstable" and this to their own destruction. If you say that you are "a student" then I would trash this idea of Paul not being a true apostle of Jesus Christ chosen by God the Father and that because it puts you under the same condemnation as those who were saying the same thing during Peter and Paul's time and which leads to destruction. If you speak against Paul and what he wrote, then you are speaking against the Lord, for he is the author.

If you are a false apostle, you are not going to be caught up to the third heaven and receive all manner of revelations and visions from the Lord and are not going to have the gifts of healing, speaking in languages, prophesying and raising the dead (Acts 20:9). This that you are believing in is another one of those teachings that Satan has put out there and that because he knows that it is detrimental to salvation for those who believe in it, just like he has spread the teaching that we are still obligated to the law, because he knows that it leads to death.

I truly hope that you will reconsider and repent of this teaching for your eternal life sake.
 
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Karraster

Guest
#84
#84
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.14For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.15She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.16Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.17Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#85
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#85
davidb87 said:
My conclusion:

I will follow the old law as jesus said, dont commit adultery, etc all those Good laws that god created for us humans to live a better life.

If you dont want to follow it then dont, but I know for a fact god wont preach it once, then just tell everyone forget about it.

One person told us to forget about it, and thats who we listened to. Which is sad.

Thats why most christians today will have premarital sex like its no big deal, thats why they will steal we have left gods laws and I wont be apart of it.
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If you do follow the old law, then you are required to follow the whole law, all 600 or more of them. And if you break just one of them, you've broken the enter law, which then brings wrath (James 2:10). The truth is that human beings are not able to keep the law, which is why Jesus came and fulfill it for us. Now, we look to him as our provision for salvation, having faith in him, and are credited with righteousness. When we have faith in Christ, God credits believers with righteousness and though we are still sinners, God sees us through the spectacles of Christ and deems us as righteous, even though we still sin.

That's why most christians today will have premarital sex like its no big deal, thats why they will steal we have left gods laws and I wont be apart of it.
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Not being under the law does not equal carte blanche to sin. I means that we are no longer under the covenant of the law, but follow in the new way, being led by the Spirit. When Christ fulfilled the law, he met its righteous requirements and brought it to its end. Now we look to Christ as the author and finisher of our faith. If you are led by the spirit, you will not fulfill the desires of the sinful nature. And when we do fall into sin, scripture says, "if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness." Anyone who puts themselves under the law to obey it, that person will die in their sins, be judged, and condemned, and that because scripture is clear that no one will be justified before God by observing the law.

Regarding this issue of salvation by grace through faith vs. the works of the law, I would suggest that you read very carefully the letters to the Galatians, Romans and Hebrews.

"May we never boast in anything except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ"
 
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tanach

Guest
#86
#86
FreeNChrist said:
Does your Torah include any commandments?
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I'm not sure what you mean by 'my Torah' As a Christian I use the Bible. That includes all the books of the Old Testament or Tanakh as the Jews call it. It follows that it would include the commandments.
 
Brother_Don

Brother_Don

Banned
#87
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
89
0
#87
i don't understand why just-me and his wife was banned, they was not the party causing disruption. It seems like they was followed around in the forums being bombarded. Well the Almighty knows exactly what is going on He can't be fooled. All that choose to be obedient to the law might as well be banned because our minds won't be changed. We have already tried the lawless way and it wasn't edifying. Christ Jesus have mercy on those that have not come to that understanding.
 
nowyouseem033

nowyouseem033

Senior Member
#88
Jul 17, 2014
535
30
28
#88
NO

Ask yourself the question, Was the OT law ever meant to be followed? answer is no.. was it ever meant to be obeyed ... answer again is no.
So what was the purpose of the law? answer is to show you that you cant follow nor obey it perfectly and fully. And in one sense the law is a foreshadowing of a coming Saviour who would fulfil it completely and that is the laws primary intention and purpose.... to point you to a Saviour. :)

So what now??
We as believers obey the law because we now can obey the law thanks be to God and the Holy Spirit working and dwelling within us. We don't obey out of obligation though, like you see a lot of the Pharisees and OT Jews do. We obey out of a willingness and joy for we as believers delight in Gods Law something you cannot do unless ones heart has been born again and been made alive unto God. The law no longer oppresses you externally from stone, but now the law joyfully rises up within you from the heart. This is what it means to have the law written on your heart, for when God removes the heart of stone and gives you a heart of flesh to be able to love him, obey, etc.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#89
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#89
nowyouseem033 said:
NO

Ask yourself the question, Was the OT law ever meant to be followed? answer is no.. was it ever meant to be obeyed ... answer again is no.
So what was the purpose of the law? answer is to show you that you cant follow nor obey it perfectly and fully. And in one sense the law is a foreshadowing of a coming Saviour who would fulfil it completely and that is the laws primary intention and purpose.... to point you to a Saviour. :)

So what now??
We as believers obey the law because we now can obey the law thanks be to God and the Holy Spirit working and dwelling within us. We don't obey out of obligation though, like you see a lot of the Pharisees and OT Jews do. We obey out of a willingness and joy for we as believers delight in Gods Law something you cannot do unless ones heart has been born again and been made alive unto God. The law no longer oppresses you externally from stone, but now the law joyfully rises up within you from the heart. This is what it means to have the law written on your heart, for when God removes the heart of stone and gives you a heart of flesh to be able to love him, obey, etc.
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You have it completely backwards. The law was always meant to be followed, but men can't do its righteousness because they are evil. Even after they receive the spirit, they are unable to keep the law. Peter called it an unbearable yoke.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#90
#90
davidb87 said:
My conclusion:

I will follow the old law as jesus said, dont commit adultery, etc all those Good laws that god created for us humans to live a better life.

If you dont want to follow it then dont, but I know for a fact god wont preach it once, then just tell everyone forget about it.

One person told us to forget about it, and thats who we listened to. Which is sad.

Thats why most christians today will have premarital sex like its no big deal, thats why they will steal we have left gods laws and I wont be apart of it.
Click to expand...
Matthew 5:28
"but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery"


How ya doin' now?
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#91
#91
davidb87 said:
Why should I follow someone who says opposite things of what Jesus says.
I follow what Jesus says in the bible, the part where Humans Voice their opinions in the bibles is what confused this whole world.
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Because just throwing out portions of the Bible because they don't fit with what you want to believe is simply not a legitimate option. The problem is with your understanding not God's word.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#92
#92
tanach said:
I'm not sure what you mean by 'my Torah' As a Christian I use the Bible. That includes all the books of the Old Testament or Tanakh as the Jews call it. It follows that it would include the commandments.
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Well commandments are not merely "instructions" are they??
 
T

tanach

Guest
#93
#93
FreeNChrist said:
Well commandments are not merely "instructions" are they??
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The five books of Moses contain more than Commandments. Most of Genesis contains narrative. If you include the whole of the OT then there is a great amount of scripture that contains no commandments at all. The word Torah includes the Commandments and everything besides. It is something that we cannot translate into English easily. What I stated is the nearest we can get to explain the Jewish meaning of Torah. Calling it the Law is limiting the full meaning of the word.
Apart from that according to Paul we cannot keep the commandments. He said if we break one commandment we break them all. According to Jewish tradition there are 613 commandments that need to be kept. Jesus said the greatest commandments was to love the Lord our God with all our heart soul and mind and love your neighbour as ourselves.. I doubt there is anyone who can honestly say that they can keep those at all times. I know I cant. That is why Christ died for our sins because we are unable to keep Gods commandments.
 
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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#94
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#94
Where we in our western mindset and our English language have difficulty in understanding is the ancient Hebrew that the scriptures were penned originally.

In reference to the law versus spirit is the two words "keep" and "obey". To keep the law of God in the Hebrew mindset is to love it. To meditate on it. To value the wisdom of it which leads one to understanding the character of the Almighty. This culminates in our lifestyle as out of our heart then we "act".

Obedience without a heart change is of no value whatsoever. It is acting out of fear actually. The tormenting fear of the natural man that God is a tyrant and one must toe the line or be thrown to the lake of fire.

We might ask ourselves what parent would want their children to be like this?

So Father gives His own Sons blood as a perfect sacrifice of a pure heart before Him to vanquish once and for all....that tormenting fear.

He Remakes us as Spiritual, gives us His own Spirit that we might stand before Him and as scripture states, to ask for help in the day of need. Would that not be daily? Paul thought so in stating that he viewed his death and resurrection with the Cross of Jesus on a daily basis.

We we are no longer a natural man under any law but of Spirit and thus...the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#95
#95
tanach said:
The five books of Moses contain more than Commandments. Most of Genesis contains narrative. If you include the whole of the OT then there is a great amount of scripture that contains no commandments at all. The word Torah includes the Commandments and everything besides. It is something that we cannot translate into English easily. What I stated is the nearest we can get to explain the Jewish meaning of Torah. Calling it the Law is limiting the full meaning of the word.
Apart from that according to Paul we cannot keep the commandments. He said if we break one commandment we break them all. According to Jewish tradition there are 613 commandments that need to be kept. Jesus said the greatest commandments was to love the Lord our God with all our heart soul and mind and love your neighbour as ourselves.. I doubt there is anyone who can honestly say that they can keep those at all times. I know I cant. That is why Christ died for our sins because we are unable to keep Gods commandments.
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Yes, but those commandments have penalties attached to them for failure to comply with them. They do indeed instruct, but they do so with a demand for perfect compliance.....or else.
 
T

tanach

Guest
#96
#96
FreeNChrist said:
Yes, but those commandments have penalties attached to them for failure to comply with them. They do indeed instruct, but they do so with a demand for perfect compliance.....or else.
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Christ has already paid the penalty If he hasn't we are all still doomed to hell and we may as well throw our Bibles away.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#97
#97
tanach said:
Christ has already paid the penalty If he hasn't we are all still doomed to hell and we may as well throw our Bibles away.
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Indeed He has.....He paid the penalty.
 
KohenMatt

KohenMatt

Senior Member
#98
Jun 28, 2013
4,022
223
63
#98
Just got back from celebrating Sukkot (The Feast of Tabernacles) and thought I would weigh in.....

Yes, we should follow the OT Law, but under the proper context. Obedience to the Law does nothing for salvation; that is by grace alone.

What the Law DOES do is provide God's instructions on how to live on a daily basis. Just because the penalty for sin (disobeying the Law) is done away with through Jesus' sacrifice doesn't negate the principles of the Law nor the application of them. Jesus told His disciples who were already saved to follow the Law and to teach others to do so. Paul came against those who were following the Law to improve their stance before God or to force others into their mold of religiosity.

Again, proper context is key.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#99
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#99
KohenMatt said:
Yes, we should follow the OT Law, but under the proper context. Obedience to the Law does nothing for salvation; that is by grace alone.

What the Law DOES do is provide God's instructions on how to live on a daily basis. Just because the penalty for sin (disobeying the Law) is done away with through Jesus' sacrifice doesn't negate the principles of the Law nor the application of them. Jesus told His disciples who were already saved to follow the Law and to teach others to do so. Paul came against those who were following the Law to improve their stance before God or to force others into their mold of religiosity.

Again, proper context is key.
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I know that you observe the sabbath, not because you think you have to, but because you want to.

I think most people agree that doing the two greatest commandments (love and faith) is equivalent to doing the 10 commandments. However, some don't see how love and faith fulfills the 4th commandment, and therefore, the letter of it must be observed.

We know what the letter of the 4th commandment says. What is the principle behind the commandment itself that can help us to understand how faith fulfills it?
 
KohenMatt

KohenMatt

Senior Member
#100
Jun 28, 2013
4,022
223
63
#100
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
I know that you observe the sabbath, not because you think you have to, but because you want to.

I think most people agree that doing the two greatest commandments (love and faith) is equivalent to doing the 10 commandments. However, some don't see how love and faith fulfills the 4th commandment, and therefore, the letter of it must be observed.

We know what the letter of the 4th commandment says. What is the principle behind the commandment itself that can help us to understand how faith fulfills it?
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One of the best ways to understand the principle behind it, and how faith fulfills the Sabbath (or any law for that matter) is to physically keep the Sabbath and see what God does and teaches on it.
 
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