If you took the trouble to read what I said, which of course no one on here ever does, you would have noted that I said that they were the election of Israel. But it certainly has A LOT to do with believing Gentiles, for in Rom 11.12-24 believing Gentiles were incorporated into the election of Israel. They thus became part of spiritual Israel. Unbelieving, unspiritual Israel were broken off because God had rejected them. The true Israel today is made up of all true believers in the Messiah. To hold any other view is to deny the word of God.
Our Kingdom to Come
- Thread starter JaumeJ
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But it was GOD Who said that the promises made to Abraham would be fulfilled in a heavenly land!! (Heb 11.10-14) You people are so fleshly minded that you are unable to see spiritual truth. It is one of the great problems of the American church today. It is why you miss the most glorious aspects of the Gospel.
Are you denying that the land was promised unconditionally to only Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Christ ?
Are you denying that Israel was never given title deed to the land, but only tenant rights to live in the land based on certain conditions?
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them. Deuteronomy 30:19-20
Now to Abraham and to his descendant the promises were spoken. It does not say, “and to descendants,” as concerning many, but as concerning one, “and to your descendant,” who is Christ. Galatians 3:16
Are you denying that Israel was never given title deed to the land, but only tenant rights to live in the land based on certain conditions?
The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me. Leviticus 25:23
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them. Deuteronomy 30:19-20
E
Are you denying it was given to ALL his offspring?
Gen 15:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. [SUP]18 [/SUP]On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— [SUP]19 [/SUP]the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, [SUP]21 [/SUP]the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
Gen 17: [SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
It does not say here just three people. I can not interpret it any way other than what it says..
Gal 3 is concerning salvation, In you shall all the nations be blessed. Not about some land in the middle east given to a nation.
Are you denying, that if Isreal repent today, and confess her sins, and recieves her savior. Tha God would not remember his promise, and return her to her land?
Lev 26:
[SUP]40 [/SUP]‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
[SUP]41 [/SUP]and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
[SUP]42 [/SUP]then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
I am the Lord.’”
I think it is clear. God will never let them fade as a nation, And if they repent, They will be returned, God does not forget his promises.
Gen 15:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. [SUP]18 [/SUP]On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— [SUP]19 [/SUP]the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, [SUP]21 [/SUP]the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
Gen 17: [SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
It does not say here just three people. I can not interpret it any way other than what it says..
Gal 3 is concerning salvation, In you shall all the nations be blessed. Not about some land in the middle east given to a nation.
Are you denying, that if Isreal repent today, and confess her sins, and recieves her savior. Tha God would not remember his promise, and return her to her land?
Lev 26:
[SUP]40 [/SUP]‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
[SUP]41 [/SUP]and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
[SUP]42 [/SUP]then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
I am the Lord.’”
I think it is clear. God will never let them fade as a nation, And if they repent, They will be returned, God does not forget his promises.
E
lol. I am not missing anything of the gospel. Isreal getting her land back some time in the future IF she repents has no bearing on the gospel. my salvation or my joy.
But hey, If you think you are so smart. and this keeps people from Joy. Maybe you have not experienced the joy of salvation yourself.. For if you did, Israel would not have any affect on your joy.
But hey, If you think you are so smart. and this keeps people from Joy. Maybe you have not experienced the joy of salvation yourself.. For if you did, Israel would not have any affect on your joy.
[Are you denying it was given to ALL his offspring?]
[Are you denying that the land was promised unconditionally
to only Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Christ ]
brothers there was more then one promise,both right
promise of being blessed through, the one seed[singular].
but also land promises to Abrahams seeds, decendents
also promise of the septure through king David.
But the birthright was Joseph’s” (1 Chronicles 5:2).
[Are you denying that the land was promised unconditionally
to only Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Christ ]
brothers there was more then one promise,both right
promise of being blessed through, the one seed[singular].
but also land promises to Abrahams seeds, decendents
also promise of the septure through king David.
But the birthright was Joseph’s” (1 Chronicles 5:2).
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Matthew 25
The Sheep and the Goats
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Shalom
Abraham is the “ father of the faithful” (see Galatians 3:7)
If we are Christ’s we are Abraham’s children (Galatians 3:29)
that Abraham was called on to be willing to sacrifice his only (legitimate) son (Genesis 22:2)
For the promise, that he [Abraham] should be the heir of the world Romans 4:13
all the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory,
belong sole to Israel (Romans 9:4).
God promised that Abraham’s literal, human, flesh and blood descendants
should become “a great nation” (Genesis 12:2);
that He would “multiply thee exceedingly” (Genesis 17:2);
that“thou shalt be a father of many nations” (verse 4); and that “I will make
thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee”(verse 6).
In Genesis 17:8, God promised “all the land of Canaan,” but in other scriptures
He promised much more. In Genesis 15:18: “
Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt [the Nile]
unto the great river,the river Euphrates. The Euphrates is a considerable
distance to the east in the ancient land of Babylon,
Genesis 24:60 to Abraham’s daughter-in-law: “e thou
the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess
the gate of those which hate them.”
“By myself have I sworn, saith the [Eternal], for because thou
hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only
son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will
multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand
which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gates of
his enemies. The promise now is unconditional.
This legacy guaranteed on the authority of God
Almighty, unconditionally, multitudinous population, untold
wealth and material resources, national greatness and world power!
The spiritual promises—the promises of the “one seed,”
Christ, and of salvation through Him—the Bible calls the
scepter. But the material and national promises relating to many
nations, national wealth, prosperity and power, and possession
of the Holy Land, the Bible calls the birthright.
Both the birthright and the scepter were repromised by the Eternal
to Abraham and Isaac and to Jacob.
If we are Christ’s we are Abraham’s children (Galatians 3:29)
that Abraham was called on to be willing to sacrifice his only (legitimate) son (Genesis 22:2)
For the promise, that he [Abraham] should be the heir of the world Romans 4:13
all the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory,
belong sole to Israel (Romans 9:4).
God promised that Abraham’s literal, human, flesh and blood descendants
should become “a great nation” (Genesis 12:2);
that He would “multiply thee exceedingly” (Genesis 17:2);
that“thou shalt be a father of many nations” (verse 4); and that “I will make
thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee”(verse 6).
In Genesis 17:8, God promised “all the land of Canaan,” but in other scriptures
He promised much more. In Genesis 15:18: “
Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt [the Nile]
unto the great river,the river Euphrates. The Euphrates is a considerable
distance to the east in the ancient land of Babylon,
Genesis 24:60 to Abraham’s daughter-in-law: “e thou
the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess
the gate of those which hate them.”
“By myself have I sworn, saith the [Eternal], for because thou
hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only
son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will
multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand
which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gates of
his enemies. The promise now is unconditional.
This legacy guaranteed on the authority of God
Almighty, unconditionally, multitudinous population, untold
wealth and material resources, national greatness and world power!
The spiritual promises—the promises of the “one seed,”
Christ, and of salvation through Him—the Bible calls the
scepter. But the material and national promises relating to many
nations, national wealth, prosperity and power, and possession
of the Holy Land, the Bible calls the birthright.
Both the birthright and the scepter were repromised by the Eternal
to Abraham and Isaac and to Jacob.
that Isaac was born by promise, and by a miracle from God,
“And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed;
and thou shalt call his name Isaac:
and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant,
and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I … will
make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly … and I
will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish
with Isaac …” (verses 19-21).
Abraham wanted ishmael, Genesis 17:18, but God chose Isaac,first lawful son
Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac (Genesis 25:5)
The promise, as confirmed to Isaac, Genesis 26:3-5 all these countries
Ishmael and Abraham’s other sons were rejected from this birthright.
a future nation to spring from Ishmael,from Sarah’s Egyptian handmaid
the angel of the Eternal had said to Hagar: “[H]e will be a wild man;
his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against
him; and he shall dwell to the east of all his brethren” (Genesis 16:12).
Ishmael’s descendants were to become a great nation,the birthright nations
were to be greater they were to dwell to the east of their brethren(Isaac)
The children of Ishmael have become the Arabs of today.
Isaac had twin sons, Esau and Jacob. Esau was the firstborn
And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment;
and they called his name Esau.And after that came his brother out,
and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob
The Eternal had said to Rebekah, regarding Esau and Jacob,
that they were the beginning of two nations—“two manner of
people … the one people shall be stronger than the other people,”
said God, “and the elder shall serve the younger”(Genesis 25:23).
And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage;
for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.”
And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him:
and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.
“Edom” means, literally, “red soup,” and is so translated
remember the fact that “Edom” now refers to Esau
the name Edom refer to the descendants of Esau,
primarily the Turkish nation today.
“And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed;
and thou shalt call his name Isaac:
and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant,
and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I … will
make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly … and I
will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish
with Isaac …” (verses 19-21).
Abraham wanted ishmael, Genesis 17:18, but God chose Isaac,first lawful son
Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac (Genesis 25:5)
The promise, as confirmed to Isaac, Genesis 26:3-5 all these countries
Ishmael and Abraham’s other sons were rejected from this birthright.
a future nation to spring from Ishmael,from Sarah’s Egyptian handmaid
the angel of the Eternal had said to Hagar: “[H]e will be a wild man;
his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against
him; and he shall dwell to the east of all his brethren” (Genesis 16:12).
Ishmael’s descendants were to become a great nation,the birthright nations
were to be greater they were to dwell to the east of their brethren(Isaac)
The children of Ishmael have become the Arabs of today.
Isaac had twin sons, Esau and Jacob. Esau was the firstborn
And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment;
and they called his name Esau.And after that came his brother out,
and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob
The Eternal had said to Rebekah, regarding Esau and Jacob,
that they were the beginning of two nations—“two manner of
people … the one people shall be stronger than the other people,”
said God, “and the elder shall serve the younger”(Genesis 25:23).
And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage;
for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.”
And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him:
and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.
“Edom” means, literally, “red soup,” and is so translated
remember the fact that “Edom” now refers to Esau
the name Edom refer to the descendants of Esau,
primarily the Turkish nation today.
“And Jacob said unto his father, I am Esau thy firstborn …”
(Genesis 27:19).
Jacob tricked Esaus and took his father’s blessing,
so Isaac blessed Jacob” (verses 21-23).
Therefore God give thee (Jacob) of the dew of heaven, and the fatness
of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine: increase and possession]:
Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren,
and let thy mother’s sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that
curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee” Genesis 27:26-29
Isaac kinda cursed Esau,“Behold, thy dwelling shall be away from
the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;
And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother;
and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion,
that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.
And Esau hated Jacob …” (verses 39-41).
where material blessing of wealth in the things of the ground is added,
heathen nations shall be ruled by the birthright nations of Israel
And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread
abroad to the west, and to the east,and to the north,and to the south(Genesis 28:14-14).
Israel shall eventually spread around the world as dust of the ground,
and sands of the sea shore. Genesis 28:15 “
I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest,
and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee,
until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of”
But after years of trial and test—after finally wrestling all night
with the angel (Genesis 32:24-29)—after confessing his name as
“supplanter”—God bestowed His blessing upon Jacob, took away
his reproachful name, and gave him a new, untainted name,
Israel—which means “prevailer,” or “overcomer with God.”
God appeared to Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel (Genesis 35:11).
through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the promises were handed down
to one man at a time
(Genesis 27:19).
Jacob tricked Esaus and took his father’s blessing,
so Isaac blessed Jacob” (verses 21-23).
Therefore God give thee (Jacob) of the dew of heaven, and the fatness
of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine: increase and possession]:
Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren,
and let thy mother’s sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that
curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee” Genesis 27:26-29
Isaac kinda cursed Esau,“Behold, thy dwelling shall be away from
the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;
And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother;
and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion,
that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.
And Esau hated Jacob …” (verses 39-41).
where material blessing of wealth in the things of the ground is added,
heathen nations shall be ruled by the birthright nations of Israel
And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread
abroad to the west, and to the east,and to the north,and to the south(Genesis 28:14-14).
Israel shall eventually spread around the world as dust of the ground,
and sands of the sea shore. Genesis 28:15 “
I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest,
and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee,
until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of”
But after years of trial and test—after finally wrestling all night
with the angel (Genesis 32:24-29)—after confessing his name as
“supplanter”—God bestowed His blessing upon Jacob, took away
his reproachful name, and gave him a new, untainted name,
Israel—which means “prevailer,” or “overcomer with God.”
God appeared to Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel (Genesis 35:11).
through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the promises were handed down
to one man at a time