Is your pastor deceiving you, or is he just ignorant?

[ZacharyB]

I can see that in what Paul writes in all his episteles there is very straight forward words and I don't believe there is some hidden message in the things he says.

Please try on Romans 6 for size ... and tell us in a sentence or two what Paul is saying.

 

[mailmandan]

Were the Galatians Christians or not?
Were they in danger of falling from grace?
If they continued to trust in the law instead of grace,
would not they have fallen from grace?
Yes, of course.
No excuses, thanks very much.
This is merely one of many examples which destroys OSAS.

I wouldn't say it destroys OSAS. The present tense of the word "justified" implies that the Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. But had they fully come to that place yet? They were obviously getting side-tracked by legalistic teachers, but I don't see the words "lost salvation" there. If they lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why did Paul say in verse 10 - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

 

[ZacharyB]

Grace has been consistently preached since the first century. It seems that someone trying to nit pick verses to support a contrary idea is more suspect.

From someone elsewhere …
“Yes, the church has always held that one can turn back away from God, losing salvation.
Man's will is always involved to one degree or another.”

 

[ZacharyB]

When all you can see is sin, you are not looking to the cross.

When all you can see is grace, you are not looking to the NT.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When all you can see is grace, you are not looking to the NT.

You have not looked at scripture much, It speaks of grace from genesis to revelation.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,
but all the while … most pastors are preaching GRACE!
Most of the NT was written to born-again Christians in the churches,
so many warnings were written to YOU (if indeed you are born-again).
However, most believers today are blind to them (for several reasons).
Dozens of verses WARN: If you choose to keep on sinning without
serious confession and repentance (sincere regret and desire to change),
you will fall from grace and forfeit your salvation!

God settled the sin issue between us and Him 2000 years ago. Good Pastors preach grace because they understand that.

 

[MarcR]

From someone elsewhere …
“Yes, the church has always held that one can turn back away from God, losing salvation.
Man's will is always involved to one degree or another.”

For someone with nothing to say you seem very adept at getting it in people's faces.

 

[ZacharyB]

... the Galatians were contemplating justification by the law.
But had they fully come to that place yet?

It was simply a warning that if they continued, they would fall from grace, etc.
And this warning is the same as all of the many warnings in the NT.
IF a born-again believer doesn't do things God's way, he/she loses salvation.
Now you need to find out what God's way is!
Hint: it is not sitting back and relying on God's grace.
Proof: the many warnings about losing salvation.

 

[ZacharyB]

For someone with nothing to say you seem very adept at getting it in people's faces.

You are correct, I have nothing at all to say.
I am simply quoting Scripture, which you have turned a deaf ear to.

 

[ZacharyB]

God settled the sin issue between us and Him 2000 years ago. Good Pastors preach grace because they understand that.

Too bad you haven't heard real Spirit-filled believers on Christian Internet Radio.
They constantly rail against the terrible state of the churches today.
Most churches today preach OSAS and the pre-trib rapture, which tickle the ears of their followers.
The priorities of most pastors:
-- paying down church mortgages and home mortgages
-- keeping their tax-exempt status with the government

 

[ukok102nak]

:rofl: And theirs no one else here would even try to find out if there is a
Commandments of baptism in the old testament

speaking out of ignorance :haha:
Let them for themselves as what the scriptures say

Even those people from time of nimrod
Enoch and noah and
Even the people in Sodom and Gomorrah has their own grace
But it is proven it wasnt from
Our lord god who is good and doesn't lie and to
Our lord god the only begotten son Jesus christ

:ty:

 

[ZacharyB]

You have not looked at scripture much, It speaks of grace from genesis to revelation.

Yes, I guess that's why the Lord scattered the bodies of the Israelites all over the desert floor.
And now you'll tell us that they were destined for heaven.
Paul warned that this was an example for NT believers to take heed to.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Too bad you haven't heard real Spirit-filled believers on Christian Internet Radio.
They constantly rail against the terrible state of the churches today.
Most churches today preach OSAS and the pre-trib rapture, which tickle the ears of their followers.
The priorities of most pastors:
-- paying down church mortgages and home mortgages
-- keeping their tax-exempt status with the government

The issue is not sins, the issue is life. Continue in your obsession with sins and you will continue to miss life. Until you accept that, you are just spitting into the wind.

 

[ZacharyB]

The issue is not sins, the issue is life. Continue in your obsession with sins
and you will continue to miss life. Until you accept that, you are just spitting into the wind.

The issue IS sin, and all throughout the NT is written:
"Keep on sinning and you will lose your salvation."
YOU are a member of the Laodicean church (Rev 3).

 

[Utah]

The more I study the NT the more WARNINGS I see,
but all the while … most pastors are preaching GRACE!
Most of the NT was written to born-again Christians in the churches,
so many warnings were written to YOU (if indeed you are born-again).
However, most believers today are blind to them (for several reasons).
Dozens of verses WARN: If you choose to keep on sinning without
serious confession and repentance (sincere regret and desire to change),
you will fall from grace and forfeit your salvation!

• “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous,
just as He is righteous.” (1 John 3:7)

• “… everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

• “… whoever (reverentially) fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”
(Acts 10:35)

• “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … so now present your members as slaves
of righteousness for holiness … the wages of sin is (eternal) death” (Romans 6:16, 19, 23)

• “For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death
the (sinful) deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by God’s Spirit,
these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:13-14)

• Jesus warned: “And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)

• “To not obey is to not believe” is taught in Hebrews 3:18-19 …
which links back to the applicable examples of: sinning (3:17), rebelling (3:16),
hardening of the heart (3:15), and not remaining faithful (3:14).

• “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of (eternal) life … But each one is tempted when he is drawn
away by his own desires … Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin when it is full-grown brings forth (eternal) death.” (James 1:12-16)

• “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.” (Revelation 2:10)

• Everyone who is “cowardly (fearful), unbelieving (includes unfaithful), abominable,
murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in
the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

• “… reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men” (2 Peter 3:7)
Yes, everyone who is ungodly will be thrown into the lake of fire!

• Jesus is coming back for:
“… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing …
holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27)
“… holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God” (Hebrews 12:14)

• To continue your progressive sanctification unto holiness,
it is critical to regularly confess and repent of your sins …
“IF we walk in the light … the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin
… IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us (of) our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9)

God's grace is not cheap, but it is sufficient for those who have faith in Jesus. All these verses you shared pertain to the dire need for having faith, and not about performing works.

Practicing righteousness means having faith in Jesus. If you don't have faith, you don't have grace. Romans 8:38-39 is all one ever needs to know about the power of God's saving grace in Jesus Christ.

 

[ZacharyB]

GRACE EVERYWHERE THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE BIBLE?

I guess that's why the Lord scattered the bodies of the Israelites all over the desert floor.
Paul warned that this was an example for NT believers to take heed to.

Warnings about Old Testament examples which apply to Christians
Rom 11:20-22, 1 Cor 10:1-12, Heb 3:16-19, Heb 4:2-6, Heb 12:16-17, Jude 5-7

 

[FreeNChrist]

The issue IS sin, and all throughout the NT is written:
"Keep on sinning and you will lose your salvation."
YOU are a member of the Laodicean church (Rev 3).

My sins have been forgiven, they have no bearing on my salvation. Thank you Jesus.

 

[Utah]

My sins have been forgiven, they have no bearing on my salvation. Thank you Jesus.

Amen to this! You're getting a rep for this one!

 

[ukok102nak]

From someone elsewhere …
“Yes, the church has always held that one can turn back away from God, losing salvation.
Man's will is always involved to one degree or another.”

indeed
my brethren :happy:

we can attain grace if we follow the commandments of
Our Lord god the only begotten son Jesus Christ as he speaks to his disciples and to all the people at that time and
For we us they the others to follow their examples
Matthew: 5. 16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[WarriorHadassah]

Good Morning All.


I guess I need to live my life according to the Word of God because it is to confusing trying to listen to everyone on here. Always be obedient to the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. If I have a problem with the Word of God then I take in prayer and seek presence of God. Confusion is not of God, but folks trying to interpret the Word of God with opinions. I am guilty of that as well. The Word of God is about instructions and teachings. The old testament and new testament support each other because like a coin one side is the old and the side the new, but ONE coin.