The Law Debacle Resolved
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I have a simple question. I walk in grace, a slave to righteousness. I find I keep the law though not intending to or listing the law. Am I a law keeper or am I walking in grace?
I think there is a spiritual dimension where our righteousness is derived from our walk and not from just reading a set of rules and trying to blindly follow them or some derived version of them.
Unfortunately you know your walk in grace is off, if you find the law shows up failures or short comings.
The law is structured to help resolve serious social issues within a rural community, but does not work in other types of society. ie would we now force a rapest to marry their victim and never divorce them? I think not because our economic situation and social structure has changed. It does not mean you cannot see the justice in this, but also its limitations.
Death for murder is fine if clear-cut cases, but where testimony is the only evidence, and the guilty party could have been elsewhere, things get very grey. Prison works where people are housed safely, and the seriously mentally ill people can be specially looked after. That is bringing hope to people through repentance and also bringing justice to those so far gone they need isolation.
I would question not is perfection our aim, is why would we sin? Sin is a brutal thing which causes harm to others. Yes we fail, but surely inbetween we walk in righteousness? It sounds to me rather than walking in Jesus's acceptance people feel so rejected because Jesus is other, very far away, and they need to know the in fact His love is fantastically close. We are much harder on ourselves than God is. In the important areas we slip up, but in the minor knat issues, you are lost unless you word it just right....sure thing..... The important issues, God loves you, warts and all, really all of you, as you are, and will work with you....Now that is grace......
I think there is a spiritual dimension where our righteousness is derived from our walk and not from just reading a set of rules and trying to blindly follow them or some derived version of them.
Unfortunately you know your walk in grace is off, if you find the law shows up failures or short comings.
The law is structured to help resolve serious social issues within a rural community, but does not work in other types of society. ie would we now force a rapest to marry their victim and never divorce them? I think not because our economic situation and social structure has changed. It does not mean you cannot see the justice in this, but also its limitations.
Death for murder is fine if clear-cut cases, but where testimony is the only evidence, and the guilty party could have been elsewhere, things get very grey. Prison works where people are housed safely, and the seriously mentally ill people can be specially looked after. That is bringing hope to people through repentance and also bringing justice to those so far gone they need isolation.
I would question not is perfection our aim, is why would we sin? Sin is a brutal thing which causes harm to others. Yes we fail, but surely inbetween we walk in righteousness? It sounds to me rather than walking in Jesus's acceptance people feel so rejected because Jesus is other, very far away, and they need to know the in fact His love is fantastically close. We are much harder on ourselves than God is. In the important areas we slip up, but in the minor knat issues, you are lost unless you word it just right....sure thing..... The important issues, God loves you, warts and all, really all of you, as you are, and will work with you....Now that is grace......
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K
This is just your opinion and not fact as I have always stood firm saying the same things over and over and over again.
To say I constantly twist, redefine terms, or misrepresent is completely false, and anybody can go and read what I have said since I joined this site to now and would be able to tell my stance and defense of the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ has always been the same.
To say I constantly twist, redefine terms, or misrepresent is completely false, and anybody can go and read what I have said since I joined this site to now and would be able to tell my stance and defense of the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ has always been the same.
A week ago people were saying grace is everything and any morals are wrong.
It appears most now accept obeying Jesus is part of experiencing grace.
So where is the divide? It appears how you express this. So try variations of language. It the variations make the answers the same, then we actually agree.
Summaries are always dangerous, when they could mean something extreme or just a middle road. How much grace do you really have in your heart to find out if we walk this middle road, or is judgementalism and provocation what you are really after? Remember who you are following, a friend of sinners and against those who picked too closely are exact definitions.
I say this because all of us have life stories that are not nice bundles, and our use of language is pretty flaky. So we need a good dose of grace, and patience, and forgiveness.
Some have learnt the high a mighty, kicking arse style, which does not work very well, or not liking a style and actually condemning someone because of it. This leads to sin. The Lord is quite happy to remove those who go too far. So just be careful.
It appears most now accept obeying Jesus is part of experiencing grace.
So where is the divide? It appears how you express this. So try variations of language. It the variations make the answers the same, then we actually agree.
Summaries are always dangerous, when they could mean something extreme or just a middle road. How much grace do you really have in your heart to find out if we walk this middle road, or is judgementalism and provocation what you are really after? Remember who you are following, a friend of sinners and against those who picked too closely are exact definitions.
I say this because all of us have life stories that are not nice bundles, and our use of language is pretty flaky. So we need a good dose of grace, and patience, and forgiveness.
Some have learnt the high a mighty, kicking arse style, which does not work very well, or not liking a style and actually condemning someone because of it. This leads to sin. The Lord is quite happy to remove those who go too far. So just be careful.
A statement - no one keeps it perfectly as it should be kept.
The rich young man kept it perfectly. Jesus pointed to a deeper issue, where his treasure was and what he trusted in.
He did not accuse him of sin, he in effect said his motivation was wrong, he just want security spiritually along with physical security provided by money.
The law has never been everything. It is like a perfect law keeper still is not justified, because God is the ultimate source of Life and love, without communion with Him we are lost.
Have you ever interviewed a very bright prospective employee. It is not they are not qualified, it is just they cannot work as a team player so are hopeless. Thinking the law is everything is still your game, not the bigger picture. You just believe we fail the law, when the law was just a shadow of a deeper reality, what is empathy, what is knowing appropriate responses and the limitation of being individuals.
This is why love takes us much deeper down into who we are and how we are with others in their struggles. This can make a sinner more alive than the self-righteous, because the sinner may know they fail and need work, the self-righteous think they have arrived and there is nothing more to do. We are always in a state of more to do, because new situations always require new learning.
The rich young man kept it perfectly. Jesus pointed to a deeper issue, where his treasure was and what he trusted in.
He did not accuse him of sin, he in effect said his motivation was wrong, he just want security spiritually along with physical security provided by money.
The law has never been everything. It is like a perfect law keeper still is not justified, because God is the ultimate source of Life and love, without communion with Him we are lost.
Have you ever interviewed a very bright prospective employee. It is not they are not qualified, it is just they cannot work as a team player so are hopeless. Thinking the law is everything is still your game, not the bigger picture. You just believe we fail the law, when the law was just a shadow of a deeper reality, what is empathy, what is knowing appropriate responses and the limitation of being individuals.
This is why love takes us much deeper down into who we are and how we are with others in their struggles. This can make a sinner more alive than the self-righteous, because the sinner may know they fail and need work, the self-righteous think they have arrived and there is nothing more to do. We are always in a state of more to do, because new situations always require new learning.
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G
Completely disagree. We do not derive one ounce of righteousness from our walk. It is Christ IN us, that is righteous.
The "spiritual dimension" is the fact that we have the Perfect righteousness of Christ IN us, and it is not derived from any part of us or what we do.
It seems to me that we are all to familiar with the word PERFECT. God requires perfection, meaning not even an impure thought is allowed, missing one act of good is less than perfect.
Our walk has nothing to do with our righteousness before God............He demands perfection. And Christ is our perfection.
The "spiritual dimension" is the fact that we have the Perfect righteousness of Christ IN us, and it is not derived from any part of us or what we do.
It seems to me that we are all to familiar with the word PERFECT. God requires perfection, meaning not even an impure thought is allowed, missing one act of good is less than perfect.
Our walk has nothing to do with our righteousness before God............He demands perfection. And Christ is our perfection.
K
His righteousness will show out in our actions as it comes from the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
To separate the walk from the faith and have a understanding that no evidence of His righteousness has to be seen would be disregarding scriptures from Jesus, Paul, James, and John that shows it does.
How can one have the Holy Spirit without evidence of it ???? There can't be !!!
To separate the walk from the faith and have a understanding that no evidence of His righteousness has to be seen would be disregarding scriptures from Jesus, Paul, James, and John that shows it does.
How can one have the Holy Spirit without evidence of it ???? There can't be !!!
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