saved by Justification alone?

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KennethC

Guest
#61
When it comes to salvation/justification the ONLY connection to works is His works not ours. You must keep our works out of the equation...to mix our works with justification/salvation is a false gospel.
The issue is...is it our works that Justify us or Christ's works for salvation?
The issue though is what do you then classify as our works and what is His works ???

Because if you start smearing His teachings and commands that He gave to us to do into making them our works, we then have just messed up the meaning.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#62


This one between Paul and James is easy.

Paul is writing about works of the law.

James is writing about works of faith. He gives two examples. I'll only address one:

Rahab was a prostitute, yet she believed in God. How do I know? Works, not works of the law (for she was an adulteress), works of faith. How so? She was willing to lay her life on the line in order to help the spies....

That's a faith that works by love....On the other hand, Paul is right, by the works of the law no one will be justified. No one is good enough.

Keep in mind Rahab was already just in the coming Messiah. Her works of faith proved her faith.
And we can take it a step further..........Her works of faith proved it to US that she was a believer. Rahab was saved either way.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#63
I have Kenneth on ignore, sorry.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#64
That's what I've been saying, her works vindicate (show evidence) of her faith.
Yes, but it wasn't a work of the law. Keep in mind she lied to help the spies....she was also a prostitute. Under law she wouldn't be justified. But that's not what James is discussing (i.e., under law). He is discussing works of faith....

Rom 2:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works (of faith, not law), and not by faith only.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#65
Yes, to many it's I plus Christ. But the gospel is "not I, but Christ"!
The context of our righteousness being as filthy rags is before being saved, and this comes from Isaiah 64:6 and 64:5 right before shows they are still sinners needing to be saved.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#66
Yes, but it wasn't a work of the law. Keep in mind she lied to help the spies....she was also a prostitute. Under law she wouldn't be justified. But that's not what James is discussing (i.e., under law). He is discussing works of faith....
Right, our good works/fruit are a result of Him first working in us to both will and to do of His good pleasure.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#67
The context of our righteousness being as filthy rags is before being saved, and this comes from Isaiah 64:6 and 64:5 right before shows they are still sinners needing to be saved.
This reeks of ignorance and ignores the fact that Isaiah includes himself in the present tense....Isaiah was a saved child of God when he wrote this.....why do you continually reject context and tense to push your heretical stance!
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#68
The context of our righteousness being as filthy rags is before being saved, and this comes from Isaiah 64:6 and 64:5 right before shows they are still sinners needing to be saved.


Will you ever be good enough to stand before God's law and say "I am holy" - "I am righteous". If not, you are saved by faith alone in the doing and dying of Christ. Why? The law doesn't grade of the curve. It demands 100% compliance and death if you fail. The law is just, and righteous and holy, but to be a sinner and under law means death. I'll pass....
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#69
The issue though is what do you then classify as our works and what is His works ???

Because if you start smearing His teachings and commands that He gave to us to do into making them our works, we then have just messed up the meaning.
Brother Ken.....................you are doing this. Any person who thinks we can lose salvation, is working from their flesh and not from the Spirit. The Spirit knows,believes and inspired John 5:24.

New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


The Spirit did not say "maybe" one has eternal life, or "maybe" one does not come into judgement or "maybe" one has passed out of death.

If you go into the original language you will see a double negative into "does not come into judgement" and the "truly.truly" or "Amen,Amen" is a point of doctrine. And we need to pay special attention to these sayings....................Because the kingdom of darkness will attack eternal security, and the character and nature of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Truly,truly I tell you, you cannot lose salvation. Salvation is based upon the character of our Lord. Not ours.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#70
what is justification? and is it all that is needed for salvation?

Biblical answers please, e.g. actually use your bible to back your answers cheers.
Just one more new retitled post regarding the on-going topic of salvation by grace though faith vs. one's own efforts regardless of the works of the law or the retitled works of faith.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#71
This reeks of ignorance and ignores the fact that Isaiah includes himself in the present tense....Isaiah was a saved child of God when he wrote this.....why do you continually reject context and tense to push your heretical stance!
It is not against grace believers......it is a direct attack on our Lord. It is hard not to take this garbage as personal. It is against the Lord. Its just that some of us have a personal relationship with the GREAT one and it is hard not to take it personal.

It is HIM being attacked, not us. ANd I know you know this, It just helps to write it out and remind myself!
 
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KennethC

Guest
#72
Brother Ken.....................you are doing this. Any person who thinks we can lose salvation, is working from their flesh and not from the Spirit. The Spirit knows,believes and inspired John 5:24.

New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


The Spirit did not say "maybe" one has eternal life, or "maybe" one does not come into judgement or "maybe" one has passed out of death.

If you go into the original language you will see a double negative into "does not come into judgement" and the "truly.truly" or "Amen,Amen" is a point of doctrine. And we need to pay special attention to these sayings....................Because the kingdom of darkness will attack eternal security, and the character and nature of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Truly,truly I tell you, you cannot lose salvation. Salvation is based upon the character of our Lord. Not ours.

I am not and I would appreciate it if you would stop making lies up about me, and the other thing I would suggest is to please stop pulling verses out of context and making them stand alone.

That is a dangerous study habit with scripture to do that, as you can not take John 5:24 by itself without using the rest of the chapter including that especially of John 5:29.

I have gone into the original Hebrew and Greek and the word pisteuo (believe) is a continuation word that states absolutely to trust in Jesus or in God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#73


Will you ever be good enough to stand before God's law and say "I am holy" - "I am righteous". If not, you are saved by faith alone in the doing and dying of Christ. Why? The law doesn't grade of the curve. It demands 100% compliance and death if you fail. The law is just, and righteous and holy, but to be a sinner and under law means death. I'll pass....
Why do you think the scripture says He remains faithful because He can not deny Himself ???

This is because the Holy Spirit that abides in us can not deny the teachings and commands of the Lord Jesus Christ, which is why it says even by Paul by faith we establish (Romans 3:31) the law, and walking in love upholds all commandments given by the Lord (Romans 13:9-11).

The Holy Spirit in us can not guide us in disobedience, for He was sent to strengthen us where we are weak and help us to abstain from and have victory over sin.

It is not me being good enough, it is about His righteousness molding us into His ways. We are not left to still continue to walk the same way we did before we were born again, and the scriptures even command us not to walk in the same sinful ways we use to.

Paul shows the difference of being in Christ and still continuing in the flesh, and he says those who walk by the Spirit abide in Christ and He in us. Apostle John shows the same thing by our walk/actions will tell if we abide in Christ and He in us, no evidence of this in our actions shows the Holy Spirit does not abide and we are not in the Truth.
 
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Kaycie

Guest
#74
Justified means "Just if I'd never sinned at all." It is like the difference between remodel and restore. When you remodel, you put new material over the old material, so that it appears new. But to restore makes it new inside and out. When we sin, Christ's blood does not just cover it up, it washes it away completely- like it never even happened. He restores you back to innocent, like before you committed the sin. So to ask if you are justified is the same as to ask are you saved? Justification means Christ justified you with His blood.

Only Christ's blood saves, only Christ's blood justifies, so yes, you are saved by justification alone. HOWEVER, God only justifies those who are obedient to Him.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#75
It is not against grace believers......it is a direct attack on our Lord. It is hard not to take this garbage as personal. It is against the Lord. Its just that some of us have a personal relationship with the GREAT one and it is hard not to take it personal.

It is HIM being attacked, not us. ANd I know you know this, It just helps to write it out and remind myself!

Isaiah 64:5

Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those thatremember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.

Shall be saved which means they are not saved yet here !!!
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#76


Yes, but it wasn't a work of the law. Keep in mind she lied to help the spies....she was also a prostitute. Under law she wouldn't be justified. But that's not what James is discussing (i.e., under law). He is discussing works of faith....

Rom 2:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works (of faith, not law), and not by faith only.
Greetings Roberth,

The best way to cut through all of the side talk and renaming of things and get to the point is this, If anyone is trusting in anything else besides Christ's sacrifice for salvation, they are basically saying, that the Lord's sacrifice was insufficient. I need to keep this, I need to do this! We are saved by grace through faith and this not by our own efforts, it is the gift of God and not by works. Salvation is not a reward for the good works that we have done, otherwise it would not be a gift. Our hope for salvation should be in the Lord as the One who alone purchased men for God with his own blood. Once we are saved, then we should have a natural desire to do good works that we may glorify God, who already provided salvation through his Son. We should be resting and secure in what Christ did.
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#77
Greetings Roberth,

The best way to cut through all of the side talk and renaming of things and get to the point is this, If anyone is trusting in anything else besides Christ's sacrifice for salvation, they are basically saying, that the Lord's sacrifice was insufficient. ....

Bingo!!! You are right....
 
Oct 3, 2015
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#80
Apostle John shows the same thing by our walk/actions will tell if we abide in Christ and He in us, no evidence of this in our actions shows the Holy Spirit does not abide and we are not in the Truth.
Evidence doesn't equal holiness.

Keep in mind the following:

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us"