Is your pastor deceiving you, or is he just ignorant?

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kodiak

kodiak

Senior Member
#101
Mar 8, 2015
4,995
290
83
#101
ZacharyB said:
Finally, a decent response!
You always need to understand who the verse is speaking about.
Who are the "we" ... every Tom, Dick, and Harry sittin' in the church pews?

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all;
and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Jesus is talking about those who have a reciprocal knowing relationship with Him.
Jesus is talking about those who follow Him.
Jesus says those who do His commandments are those who love Him.
Anyone goin' to heaven who doesn't love Jesus?
And on and on it goes.
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So you agree that true believers can not be removed?
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#102
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#102
ZacharyB said:
Another rare decent response.

Yes, of course, God chastens His elect ... warning them to shape up.
If they do not, then they are NOT His elect.
His elect will tow the line.
Everyone else who does NOT just ain't part of the elect.

Yes, of course, all the many warnings are ONLY for His small group of elect ones.
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Better read the following and take heed:

Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.” Then the Pharisees (that's you) said to him, “You are testifying on your own behalf; your testimony is not valid.” Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid because I know where I have come from and where I am going, but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is valid; for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me."

Jesus shares love and grace; you share judgment and condemnation.

Hummm, who should we trust? Decisions, decisions.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#103
#103
Utah said:
Better read the following and take heed:

Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.” Then the Pharisees (that's you) said to him, “You are testifying on your own behalf; your testimony is not valid.” Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid because I know where I have come from and where I am going, but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is valid; for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me."

Jesus shares love and grace; you share judgment and condemnation.

Hummm, who should we trust? Decisions, decisions.
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I'm going with Jesus and the love and grace decision. :D
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#104
#104
I see my question still is being ignored instead of answered which is typical on here, as people would rather stick to their preconceived notions than actually look into what the bible says.

What do these words mean condemnation, perish, and perdition ???

Why if one can not fall from the faith and end up not receiving eternal life like some try to say can't happen, why are these 3 words said to believers ???
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#106
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#106
KennethC said:
I see my question still is being ignored instead of answered which is typical on here, as people would rather stick to their preconceived notions than actually look into what the bible says.

What do these words mean condemnation, perish, and perdition ???

Why if one can not fall from the faith and end up not receiving eternal life like some try to say can't happen, why are these 3 words said to believers ???
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The answer to your question is found in John 5:24
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#107
#107
Utah said:
The answer to your question is found in John 5:24
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That does not answer the question, but on your scripture given have you read on down to John 5:29 ???
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#108
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#108
KennethC said:
That does not answer the question, but on your scripture given have you read on down to John 5:29 ???
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If you have faith in Jesus, you have salvation; if you don't, you don't. Every Scripture you share about condemnation pertains to people who don't believe in Jesus. Faith covers everything.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#109
#109
Utah said:
If you have faith in Jesus, you have salvation; if you don't, you don't. Every Scripture you share about condemnation pertains to people who don't believe in Jesus. Faith covers everything.
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I am sorry but no as this following list was said to believers:

1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#110
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#110
KennethC said:
I am sorry but no as this following list was said to believers:

1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14
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You've mentioned no one sustained in the faith. Try again, buzzkill.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#111
#111
Utah said:
You've mentioned no one sustained in the faith. Try again, buzzkill.
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I think you need to go read those again as like the Galatians the very first verses in that epistle shows they once did walk in the gospel of Christ.
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#112
Jan 24, 2011
11,781
2,947
113
#112
ZacharyB said:
Too bad you haven't heard real Spirit-filled believers on Christian Internet Radio.
They constantly rail against the terrible state of the churches today.
Most churches today preach OSAS and the pre-trib rapture, which tickle the ears of their followers.
The priorities of most pastors:
-- paying down church mortgages and home mortgages
-- keeping their tax-exempt status with the government
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I find it hard to believe you are Canadian with this tax exempt status stuff that is totally American!

OR

you are listening to KARI radio and Internet preachers, WAY too much!

Come back when you actually sound like a Canadian and deal with Canadian issues, not American!

Or just stick to the Bible, instead of judging leaders you have never met!

PS This is not against Americans dealing with tax exempt status or not, but someone parroting stuff that is not even relevant in our country!
 
U

ukok102nak

Banned
#113
Jul 23, 2015
1,950
7
0
#113
kodiak said:
So you agree that true believers can not be removed?
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Certainly sometimes they would lie
But not in the name of our lord Jesus Chris
For example if the empire catch one of their brothers or sisters
Then the empire would like to know
"WHERE ARE THE REST OF YOUR SO CALLED CHRISTIANS (EARLY CHRISTIANS)
what do you think of their responce to their executioners at that time? :whistle:

:ty:
 
Z

ZacharyB

Banned
#114
Oct 10, 2015
544
6
0
#114
kodiak said:
So you agree that true believers can not be removed?
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I agree that God's elect before the foundation of the world cannot be removed.
He knows who are His ... these are the ones who have eternal life even as they live out their lives.
 
Z

ZacharyB

Banned
#115
Oct 10, 2015
544
6
0
#115
ladylynn said:
Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.

I'm going with Jesus and the love and grace decision. :D
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I'd say that you have no idea what it means to follow Jesus!
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#117
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#117
shotgunner said:
You make the same mistake that every legalist makes. You assume that grace means you are free to sin as much as you want. The fact is that saved by grace means that you no longer want to sin. Anyone who loves sin more than righteousness needs to get saved.

The other mistake of the legalist is to think that you can ever be good enough. You can never be good enough by your efforts. The law even says that if you are guilty in one small point you are guilty of the whole law.

There is no choice except grace. Without grace all of us would be doomed to Hell.
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Shotgunner, if you're a pastor I want to visit your congregation one Sunday morning. I really enjoy what you share and am glad you're here. God bless you! :)
 
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