Is the Devil bound right now...?

[VCO]

How do you physically bind a spiritual being...?
...

the same way you do people, only GOD has provide the type of chain that HE CREATED for that specific purpose; and the Prison that He created for that specific purpose.

Acts 22:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

NOW a real Translation Team HAS TO LOOK at the dictionary for the Language of the people that they are translating the Scriptures into, to be sure they pick the right term or word. BUT you think you are above that, my oh my look at the pride in one's education oozing out.

Revelation 20:1-3 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

Bowman you may as well move on, you are done deceiving people here.

 

[popeye]

The early church was the church under the Apostles. Clement and Ignatius were the post-Apostolic church as is obvious from their writings. Neither had real understanding of what the Apostles taught.

The apostles had the OT.
The apostles did not have Johns revelation...besides,most of them were dead.

 

[VCO]

what you mean is that you have NO PROOF. I have plenty of proof that Jesus was a real person, so why should I demand it. You are simply revealing how silly you are!!!!.

So he presents modern Jewish customs. What of it?



LOL Like I said, neither do you, nor do the people you mentioned. They can only go back a couple of centuries. All else is speculation.

I prefer to get my information from REAL SCHOLARS and genuine experts on Judaism who have studied it all their lives among experts. You clearly live in cloud cuckoo land.

You will eventually find out, that everything I shared with is the absolute Truth. If you are an example of what Englishmen call Christians, I know why the Churches are dying out. Try to explain to me how you know you are born again.

The pretrib rapture and the Jewish wedding traditions are described in these verses, but I am sure you will never see it, because you have not shown me that you are be led by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 25:1-13 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And five of them were foolish, and five were wise.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For the foolish, when they took their lamps, took no oil with them:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now while the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But at midnight there is a cry, Behold, the bridegroom! Come ye forth to meet him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are going out.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But the wise answered, saying, Peradventure there will not be enough for us and you: go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And while they went away to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage feast: and the door was shut.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Watch therefore, for ye know not the day nor the hour.

 

[ukok102nak]

my brothers and my sisters
Don't let the evil things do the things they do even in the
early church . ...

And forgive us for questioning something like that
Because if we really want to find the truth
How ever it makes our heart breaks
that if we would learn that the teachings that we have today
Was been manipulated by those people in the past
who claimed it was their wiil that must be done and not
THE WILL OF THE LORD GOD IS GOOD AND HE WHO CANNOT LIE AND
OUR LORD GOD THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON JESUS CHRIST

 

[Bowman]

the same way you do people, only GOD has provide the type of chain that HE CREATED for that specific purpose; and the Prison that He created for that specific purpose.

Acts 22:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

NOW a real Translation Team HAS TO LOOK at the dictionary for the Language of the people that they are translating the Scriptures into, to be sure they pick the right term or word. BUT you think you are above that, my oh my look at the pride in one's education oozing out.

Revelation 20:1-3 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

Bowman you may as well move on, you are done deceiving people here.

No brother.

The term used is Acts, for people, is the Greek word 'desmeuōn'....which is an entirely DIFFERENT word than that used for Satan.

See what happens when you fail to study the original languages?

It makes you look silly.....

 

[ukok102nak]

:sisid: What happens next after the great tribulation? :takbo:
:happy: Or shall we say what will happen before the great tribulation? :smoke:

 

[valiant]

the same way you do people, only GOD has provide the type of chain that HE CREATED for that specific purpose; and the Prison that He created for that specific purpose.

Acts 22:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

NOW a real Translation Team HAS TO LOOK at the dictionary for the Language of the people that they are translating the Scriptures into, to be sure they pick the right term or word. BUT you think you are above that, my oh my look at the pride in one's education oozing out.

Revelation 20:1-3 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

Bowman you may as well move on, you are done deceiving people here.

The problem you have VCO (the very conceited one?) is that God actually expects us to use our intelligence. He knows that because He is Spirit we will not expect Him to sit on a throne. This is picture language for our benefit. He knows that intelligent people will not think of a dragon, and a chain, and a bottomless pit. He realises that we will recognise that it means that he is tightly restrained. Some of you yanks miss so much because you are so tied up with the physical that you fail to understand the spiritual. You live in the Old Testament and do not really appreciate the freedom of the New, for you are so determined to make the New like the Old..

 

[valiant]

You will eventually find out, that everything I shared with is the absolute Truth. If you are an example of what Englishmen call Christians, I know why the Churches are dying out. Try to explain to me how you know you are born again.

The pretrib rapture and the Jewish wedding traditions are described in these verses, but I am sure you will never see it, because you have not shown me that you are be led by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 25:1-13 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And five of them were foolish, and five were wise.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For the foolish, when they took their lamps, took no oil with them:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now while the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But at midnight there is a cry, Behold, the bridegroom! Come ye forth to meet him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are going out.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But the wise answered, saying, Peradventure there will not be enough for us and you: go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And while they went away to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage feast: and the door was shut.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Watch therefore, for ye know not the day nor the hour.

you are just plain IGNORANT!!!!

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: Nothing happens when
no one (nothing) answers
:scarf: BIBLICALLY MEANING
THE ANSWERS MUST BE FOUND
FROM THE CONTEXT OF
THE HOLY SCRIPTURE ITSELF :HAPPY:

 

[VCO]

No brother.

The term used is Acts, for people, is the Greek word 'desmeuōn'....which is an entirely DIFFERENT word than that used for Satan.

See what happens when you fail to study the original languages?

It makes you look silly.....

Refer Rev. 20:2 the word "bound".


[quoteGreek NASB Number: 1210

Greek Word:δέω

Transliterated Word: [FONT=Gentium !important]deô[/FONT]
Root: a prim. vb.;

Definition: to tie, bind:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
bind (7),
binding (1),
binds (2),
bound (23),
imprisoned (4),
prisoners (1),
put...in chains (1),
tied (4).


New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.[/quote]

NOT ONE of those translations came up restraining!

And when I look up restraining from 2 Thess. 2:6, I find this

Greek NASB Number: 2722

Greek Word:κατέχω

Transliterated Word: [FONT=Gentium !important]katechô[/FONT]
Root: from 2596 and 2192;

Definition: to hold fast, hold back:--

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

And I told you several posts ago, that the Holy Spirit is the ONE who holds back (NOT BINDS) Satan from coming to full power as the Antichrist.

TWO DIFFERENT WORDS with TWO DIFFERENT Meanings for TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS.

 

[VCO]

The problem you have VCO (the very conceited one?) is that God actually expects us to use our intelligence. He knows that because He is Spirit we will not expect Him to sit on a throne. This is picture language for our benefit. He knows that intelligent people will not think of a dragon, and a chain, and a bottomless pit. He realises that we will recognise that it means that he is tightly restrained. Some of you yanks miss so much because you are so tied up with the physical that you fail to understand the spiritual. You live in the Old Testament and do not really appreciate the freedom of the New, for you are so determined to make the New like the Old..

Now if you are talking about GOD the Father you are comparing HIS HEAVENLY KINGDOM TO an Earthly KINGDOM.

I YOU are talking about GOD the SON, you are denying the physical resurrection and HIS physical return to Earth to reign from the THRONE OF DAVID, an Earthly KINGDOM.

Luke 1:31-33 (YLT)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] and lo, thou shalt conceive in the womb, and shalt bring forth a son, and call his name Jesus;
[SUP]32 [/SUP] he shall be great, and Son of the Highest he shall be called, and the Lord God shall give him the throne of David his father, {CLEARLY THIS TALKS ABOUT AN EARTHLY KINGDOM}
[SUP]33 [/SUP] and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.'

Zechariah 14:3-11 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] On that day there shall be no light, cold, or frost.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And there shall be a unique day, which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea. It shall continue in summer as in winter.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem shall remain aloft on its site from the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And it shall be inhabited, for there shall never again be a decree of utter destruction. Jerusalem shall dwell in security.

{CLEARLY THIS TALKS ABOUT AN EARTHLY KINGDOM, A LITERAL 1000 YEAR EARTHLY KINGDOM.}

 

[49]

Quote the scripture and to what event you think that it applies...

Isaiah 11:7. It is my belief this is during Christs' Millennial reign.

 

[ukok102nak]

indeed
For some things were made
base on our human knowledge ( e.g. fire and chains )
But spiritually different from our understanding
Just like what is written in this verse
Matthew: 3. 12. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Jude: 1. 6. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

imagined the unquenchable fire and the everlasting chains
which no human can conquer the very definition of it
For we only knew the idea of those things
Because IT WAS WRITTEN
but no one ever knew those things before that
Are still living today ( god showed them to his prophets ) until we proven them real when the time comes . ...

 

[Bowman]

Refer Rev. 20:2 the word "bound".


[quoteGreek NASB Number: 1210

Greek Word:δέω

Transliterated Word: [FONT=Gentium !important]deô[/FONT]
Root: a prim. vb.;

Definition: to tie, bind:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
bind (7),
binding (1),
binds (2),
bound (23),
imprisoned (4),
prisoners (1),
put...in chains (1),
tied (4).


New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

NOT ONE of those translations came up restraining!

And when I look up restraining from 2 Thess. 2:6, I find this



And I told you several posts ago, that the Holy Spirit is the ONE who holds back (NOT BINDS) Satan from coming to full power as the Antichrist.

TWO DIFFERENT WORDS with TWO DIFFERENT Meanings for TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS.

Same event; same definitions...

katechó: to hold fast, hold back
Original Word: κατέχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katechó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ekh'-o)
Short Definition: I hold fast, bind, restrain

 

[Ahwatukee]

indeed
For some things were made
base on our human knowledge ( e.g. fire and chains )
But spiritually different from our understanding
Just like what is written in this verse
Matthew: 3. 12. Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Jude: 1. 6. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

imagined the unquenchable fire and the everlasting chains
which no human can conquer the very definition of it
For we only knew the idea of those things
Because IT WAS WRITTEN
but no one ever knew those things before that
Are still living today ( god showed them to his prophets ) until we proven them real when the time comes . ...

Those in your example are metaphor's. At the fifth trumpet a star figuratively representing an angel, falls from heaven to the earth where he requires a key to open the Abyss. In Rev.20:1-2 another angel comes down out of heaven and he too has the key to the Abyss with which he uses to lock the Abyss back up. Therefore, because of the consistency and regardless of whether the key or chain is corporeal or spiritual, it is something that is literally needed to open and close the Abyss. The Amil will try to use the reasoning that since the key doesn't have any substance and the chain being the same, it could not hold the spiritual being of Satan, and therefore everything else in the scripture must be not be literal either, including the thousand years, as well as the Abyss itself. What kind of exegesis is that?

 

[Bowman]

And I told you several posts ago, that the Holy Spirit is the ONE who holds back (NOT BINDS) Satan from coming to full power as the Antichrist.

Scripture never mentions that....

 

[Bowman]

Isaiah 11:7. It is my belief this is during Christs' Millennial reign.

Similar verbiage is used at the end of Isaiah 65, and both passages refer to Heaven...NOT the '1K reign'.

We are in the '1K earthly reign' right now, because Satan is bound.

 

[49]

Hi 49,

You're wasting your time with Bowman and Cassian, for they are Amillennialists, which means, "not a thousand". And they get this formula from Psalm 50:10 which says "I own cattle on a thousand hills." So, since the cattle on a thousand hills is an unknown number, they apply that formula to Rev.20:1-7 and that without first considering the immediate context, making the clear statement of a thousand years an unknowable amount of time and that's how they get away with their claim that we are currently living in the thousand years which isn't really a thousand years.

The truth is that, the chronological order has the literal thousand years beginning when Christ returns to end the age and where Satan is literally bound in the literal Abyss and the resurrected saints rule with him during that literal thousand years. The other thing that they will try to tell you is that, Jesus is currently ruling from heaven through believer's. All one has to do is look around and it is obvious that believers are not ruling on this earth. They will also tell you that most everything regarding end time events in Revelation have already taken place. They have no idea of what is coming! My advice to you is to go out and search on Amillennialist and read up on what they believe. You will be amazed at the absurdity of their interpretation, to say the least. I have some good documents that cover most of the basics on Amillennialism. Let me know your email address and I'll send it to you if you are interested.

Have read quite a bit, and it leaves me scratching my head. No disrespect meant to anyone...it is just in me to take the Bible literally and trust God to help me understand what is being read. A thousand years is a thousand years, and a great chain for binding is exactly that. And as for the lion in that day...sounds like the wildebeest will not be on the menu. Praise God!! Thank you for the offer of documents though, brother. God bless all.

 

[Bowman]

And I told you several posts ago, that the Holy Spirit is the ONE who holds back (NOT BINDS) Satan from coming to full power as the Antichrist.

Clinic time...


2 Thes 2.6 - 7

και νυν το κατεχον οιδατε εις το αποκαλυφθηναι αυτον εν τω αυτου καιρω το γαρ μυστηριον ηδη ενεργειται της ανομιας μονον ο κατεχων αρτι εως εκ μεσου γενηται

kai nyn to katechon iodate eis to apokalyphthēnai auton en tō heautou kairō to gar mystērion ēdē energeitai tēs anomias monon ho katechōn arti heōs ek mesou genētai


And you know that which is binding him for now, to be revealed in his appointed time. For The Hidden, The Lawless is already working, only he is bound at present, taken out of the way, until he comes out of the midst.



Compare to the same phrase here...



Col 2.13 - 15

και υμας νεκρους οντας τοις παραπτωμασιν και τη ακροβυστια της σαρκος υμων συνεζωοποιησεν υμας συν αυτω χαρισαμενος ημιν παντα τα παραπτωματαεξαλειψας το καθ ημων χειρογραφοντοις δογμασιν ο ην υπεναντιον ημιν και αυτο ηρκεν εκ του μεσου προσηλωσας αυτο τω σταυρωαπεκδυσαμενος τας αρχας και τας εξουσιας εδειγματισεν εν παρρησιαθριαμβευσας αυτους εν αυτω

kai hymas nekrous ontas en tois paraptōmasin kai tē akrobystia tēs sarkos hymōn synezōopoiēsen hymas syn auto charisamenos hemin panta ta paraptōmata exaleipsas to kath' hēmōn cheirographon tois dogmasin ho ēn hypenantion heminkai auto ērken ek tou mesou prosēlōsas auto tō staurō apekdysamenos tas archas kai tas exousias edeigmatisen en parrēsia thriambeusas autos en autō


And you, being dead in the transgressionsand the uncircumcision of your flesh,He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the transgressions, having blotted out the handwritten bondin the decrees against us,which was an adversary to us, and He has taken him out of the way, having nailed him to the cross; having disarmed the rulers andthe powers,He made a show of themin public,triumphing over them in Him.



Q:Who holds Satan back?
A: Jesus


Q: Who takes Satan out-of-the-way?
A: Jesus


Q: Who binds Satan?
A: Jesus


Q: Who restrains Satan?
A: Jesus


Q: When was Satan taken out-of-the-way?
A: At The Cross




Owned.

 

[VCO]

Same event; same definitions...

katechó: to hold fast, hold back
Original Word: κατέχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katechó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ekh'-o)
Short Definition: I hold fast, bind, restrain

FIRST you insist that your theologic stance is that different words cannot have the same meaning, and when I point out that two different words in the Greek that have the same meaning, YOU RIDICULE their translation definitions and my use of them. I pointed that both [FONT=Gentium !important]deô &[/FONT][FONT=Gentium !important] desmeuô [/FONT]in the New American Standard Exhaustive Hebrew-Greek Dictionary/Concordance of the Bible translate BOTH WORDS to Binding in English.


Then I pointed out that the two differant words that YOU want to believe have the same meaning actually have different meanings in NASB Hebrew-Greek Dictionary:

[FONT=Gentium !important]katechô & [/FONT][FONT=Gentium !important]deô[/FONT]
New American Standard Exhaustive Hebrew- Greek Dictionary/Concordance of the Bible.

You then make fun of it and deny it, because it does not fit your theory. AND YOU BRUSH OFF THE FACT THAT THE DICTIONARY by the New American Standard Theologians, validate that I had absolutely Correct.

Now is that Hippocracy or what? You appear to act like you are infallible when it comes to Greek Translation, and apparently think the New American Standard TRANSLATION TEAM AND THEOLOGIANS were bumbling fools.

I pointed out to you once before, YOU HAVE NO ONE CHECKING THE ACCURACY OF YOUR WORK, while they ALWAYS have someone checking their work. THEREFORE, I am not about to bow to your mastery of the Greek language; because I believe a born again team of theologians who are checking each other's work are far, far more like to NOT MAKE A MISTAKE; than someone with your kind of pride in your education, which would only makes it more likely for you to make the mistakes.

Proverbs 29:23 (NRSV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] A person's pride will bring humiliation, but one who is lowly in spirit will obtain honor.