Joel Osteen vs. Paul Washer

[ladylynn]

''Mind renewal''- typical new age sssspeak,be careful Ladylynn,be very,very careful.

The problem is Elysian, that the new age took a biblical idea and Christians who are not familiar with the Bible verses say "Mind renewal"-typical new age ssspeak, be care..."

You need to read Romans 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the RENEWING of your mind, that you may PROVE what the will of God is, that which is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE and PERFECT.

The only way to know what is good and acceptable and perfect is by having our minds renewed as the Bible instructs. Being conformed to the image of Christ and that takes a daily mind renewal. That is Biblical. You will find the world has taken many Biblical ideas such as 'meditate' and Christians who hear that word react the exact same way you did about mind renewal. LOOK OUT, THEY ARE TEACHING MEDITATION!!!!!

Meditating on God's word is Biblical. Don't allow the world to re define These Biblical words and meanings for you. God had the idea first. They just hijacked it and use if for evil.

 

[ladylynn]

Does the bible command Christians to test the spirit or is it not?
How to determine whether someone is teaching falsely or teaching the truth?

I guess the answer would be by smiling and grab it and blab it and preach God loves you and have a wonderful plan for your life. Or is it not?

Well leonardronaldo, God loves us dearly and He DOES have a wonderful plan for our lives. And the Bible says that the joy of the Lord is our strength. And that the redeemed of the Lord should say so! We have much to smile about and God has truly blessed us with every spiritual blessing not only for heaven but for here on earth. I for one like JO to smile since he can help counter all those sour pusses who make following Christ like a punishment and not the wonderful JOY that it is!

 

[ladylynn]

Did you know a it was either a few months back of a couple years ago, Osteen stated that there is more than 1 way to salvation. Osteen believes everyone is saved, and just teaches prosperity. On top of that he has his chronology all mixed up. I saw a video on one of his sermons where is specifically stated that God got upset with Moses and told Moses to be more like Joshua, David, and Solomon. . . . . . I had to rewind it a few times and that's exactly what he states. . . . . How could God tell Moses to be like David or Solomon when they have not yet to exist, and there is no mention of them at this point in the bible. Joshua I may have been able to understand, but David and Solomon is where it got me. Never watched or listened to Osteen since then.

Yup, someone made a wrong application and it's like HA HA a FLAW!!! dump them and all that they say forever after. I'm so glad God isn't like us humans. It might help you to listen again and find out why JO may have said something wrong. Like God does with us... He gives us chances to get up when we fall. He also told us to love one another as I have loved you... Amen!

 

[ladylynn]

It's not even worth arguing about Olsteen, he's that far gone.But believe me if he was any kind of biblical christian whatsoever he never would have got within 200 yds of the Oprah Winfrey show.

Well of course!!! everyone knows that well known biblical truth about going on the Oprah Winfrey show!!! Someone forgot to tell that to JO. Maybe someone ought to post the chapter and verse so we can all avoid this blatant sinful act!!??

 

[ladylynn]

I choose Jesus Not trying to be a smarty alec, just figure each christian asking the Holy Spirit to lead them when reading the Word of God, will lead to a "no brainer" when listening to others share. I've always liked this quote from Randy Alcorn, a pastor up in Oregon:

"What would Jesus do? There is always one answer: He
would act in grace and truth.
Truth without grace breeds a self-righteous legalism
that poisons the church and pushes the world away from
Christ.
Grace without truth breeds moral indifference and
keeps people from seeing their need for Christ.
Attempts to “soften” the gospel by minimizing truth
keep people from Jesus. Attempts to “toughen” the gospel
by minimizing grace keep people from Jesus. It’s not
enough for us to offer grace or truth.
We must offer both." from The Grace and Truth Paradox by Randy Alcorn

Amen knownbyGod., the Bible says the law came by Moses, but that grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[ladylynn]

hmmm...seems Mr Washer does have his detractors who disagree with his presentation on salvation..




I don't have a favorite preacher or writer...no one has all the truth...

you can stick anyone under a microscope and come up with some kind of 'bug'...probably why we are told to love rather than try as hard as we can to find fault

it's one thing to disagree with things...it's another to label a person a false prophet or an apostate and yet it seems Christians just simply love to tear others apart...yum yum yum

I do have some favorite preaches I like to listen to but like you said, no one is perfect and anyone under a microscope will surely be found to have tons of flaws. I sure do appreciate your post here ember as I enjoy so many of your posts.

Since we humans are such flawed beings, no wonder the Lord told us to love one another as HE hasloved us. He is so good.
His Word frees us to love one another and not feel like they have to be perfect before we can. Grace is such a teacher!! When we see how much He loves us in our un perfect ness., we sure can find it much easier to love our fellow imperfect brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Elysian]

The problem is Elysian, that the new age took a biblical idea and Christians who are not familiar with the Bible verses say "Mind renewal"-typical new age ssspeak, be care..."

You need to read Romans 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the RENEWING of your mind, that you may PROVE what the will of God is, that which is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE and PERFECT.

The only way to know what is good and acceptable and perfect is by having our minds renewed as the Bible instructs. Being conformed to the image of Christ and that takes a daily mind renewal. That is Biblical. You will find the world has taken many Biblical ideas such as 'meditate' and Christians who hear that word react the exact same way you did about mind renewal. LOOK OUT, THEY ARE TEACHING MEDITATION!!!!!

Meditating on God's word is Biblical. Don't allow the world to re define These Biblical words and meanings for you. God had the idea first. They just hijacked it and use if for evil.

Yes the word renewing and mind are in Romans 12:2,unfortunately I have not memorized every word in the NT(and likely never will) but I am wiser you pointed this out to me.

There are however many terms and concepts used and practiced today by mainstream and not so mainstream churches that have no or very little biblical basis

These include : Slain in the spirit
drunk in the spirit
synergy
interfaithism
contemplative prayer
Shekyna glory
yoga
faith seed theology

The new age movement (or more correctly Satanism) has well and truly taken the world by storm just as it's movers and shakers from the 19th century said it would.You don't have to believe little old me, simply download some of Alice Bailey's literature: 'The externalization of the hierarchy' Ten strategies to attack christianity' or even the 'aquarian conspiracy' by an 20th century new ager.Almost everything they have written and forecast has now come to be,they have been frighteningly accurate and successful.One of their plans was to infiltrate the church and according Marilyn Ferguson's 1973, 'The aquarian conspiracy' and looking at the state of some churches today that is exactly what Marilyn and her brethren have done.

Guys like Joel Olsteen are in the ''God business'' there is a lot of money to be made there,but the question is are they in God's business?

 

[leonardronaldo]

well for one thing he once preached a sermon in which he tried to defend to doctrine of total depravity by speculating that if a baby had the strength of an adult then it would be a murderer...it goes beyond the biblical teaching about total depravity for washer to hold people guilty of purely -hypothetical- sin...

there are other doctrinal issues but i don't have time to write an essay...

and yes it is true that washer hasn't been blunt with his followers...on the one hand you have him preaching a recycled sermon to teenagers telling them that many of them should be excommunicated and are going to hell...and on the other hand his only response to his cult following has been a milquetoast sermon about not wanting to be a celebrity... if he addressed his followers with anything like the bluntness with which he addresses youth groups after an altar call...he would have a preached a sermon titled 'you people are a bunch of cultists'...

No, it's actually biblical. Read Genesis 8:21 and Psalms 51:5.

Paul Washer does not preach same topic every week, but the core is always being preached. The gospel.

I don't live in the USA to know enough how he deals with his congregations, but I've been to Heartcry Netherlands in Holland once, where he attends there annually. At first I think the same like you did, where was the bluntness that I have been hearing on his videos?
Then again, I watch more and more of his videos. He preaches extensive variety of topics and I don't think every topic shall be preached with bluntness.

 

[leonardronaldo]

most of washer's followers listen because they like hearing that -other people- are depraved sinners...that appeals to the worldly impulse of self righteousness...

and washer doesn't preach the full counsel of the gospel...he preaches the gospel with error...

which by the way doesn't make him an instrument of satan...just a preacher in need of correction who needs to learn to take correction...

False, he mentions all men, which includes himself and his congregations, as depraved sinners.

Please point out the error rather than accusing.

 

[leonardronaldo]

Well there you go leonardo., you just haven't listened to JO enough. He has taught on these in his church but you just were not there to hear it. Now don't you feel bad for misjudging this man of God??

Where's the evidence? What did he say on this topic?

 

[leonardronaldo]

You are just like leonardo., you just didn't hear him., that doesn't mean he hasn't preached it. I've actually listened to JO and heard him preach on many things the people on this forum never heard. Just goes to show people jump the gun on people in the spot light and with that, never listen to the people they decide are unbiblical so they never know (but they would swear to it that they DO know) But how could they when they have already judged and tarred and feathered the man and wouldn't take the time to listen to someone they believe to be a heretic.

Human behavior is in need of major mind renewal from the HolySpirit and the Word of God. No wonder we are warned not to judge the hearts of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

That's why this is called a forum. Please share any proof that he did.

Thanks

 

[leonardronaldo]

This is my stance on this.

And your stance on Paul Washer is wrong. You need to look up further.

 

[leonardronaldo]

I came from a pentecostal(AOG) background and have never heard the love God has for his only begotten son Jesus Christ so deeply preached than byPaul Washer.Furthermore if people were not depraved sinners God would not have sent Jesus to die in our place,Washer teaches that all people are depraved,not just some.

90% of the sermons at the AOG church were about tithing,having your best life now or modern day psychology with a Jesus label slapped on it,they are only interested in church numbers and their sermons were catering for the carnal people there while the true Christians in these churches were starving.
Paul Washers style of preaching has been preached from pulpits for hundreds of years and has helped bring many millions of people to Christ,mainstream churches only stopped this style of preaching a few decades ago,about the same time all the insidious new age bibles started appearing.
I am so deeply worried because yourself and others like you are hearing a 21st century, watered down,cherry picked, superficial gospel,that could cost you everything,so please put on your Berean cap,sit down somewhere quiet and and listen to a few more of Paul's sermons online,they will bless you.

Thanks for the testimony, may the Holy Spirit continues to guide you in your walk

 

[leonardronaldo]

It's not even worth arguing about Olsteen, he's that far gone.But believe me if he was any kind of biblical christian whatsoever he never would have got within 200 yds of the Oprah Winfrey show.

Or receiving Oprah to his church and commends her to be there, forgetting all the heresies and falsehood oprah did (which conclusively means, you are either a coward, an ignorant, or a false teacher (either of the three shall boot you out from becoming a pastor))

 

[ladylynn]

Yes the word renewing and mind are in Romans 12:2,unfortunately I have not memorized every word in the NT(and likely never will) but I am wiser you pointed this out to me.

There are however many terms and concepts used and practiced today by mainstream and not so mainstream churches that have no or very little biblical basis

These include : Slain in the spirit
drunk in the spirit
synergy
interfaithism
contemplative prayer
Shekyna glory
yoga
faith seed theology

The new age movement (or more correctly Satanism) has well and truly taken the world by storm just as it's movers and shakers from the 19th century said it would.You don't have to believe little old me, simply download some of Alice Bailey's literature: 'The externalization of the hierarchy' Ten strategies to attack christianity' or even the 'aquarian conspiracy' by an 20th century new ager.Almost everything they have written and forecast has now come to be,they have been frighteningly accurate and successful.One of their plans was to infiltrate the church and according Marilyn Ferguson's 1973, 'The aquarian conspiracy' and looking at the state of some churches today that is exactly what Marilyn and her brethren have done.

Guys like Joel Olsteen are in the ''God business'' there is a lot of money to be made there,but the question is are they in God's business?

I'm not much on conspiracy theories since for every different theory there is another different person. The Bible and sound teachers (and there are many) God has gifted to the church., are reliable. Good commentaries and study Bibles. There are so many amazing ways to study the Bible. The HolySpirit as He teaches us individually in our own private studying and reading and praying., to be able to see which teachers are worthy of our support.

I think all of us would like to say we are in the God business. We are supposed to go about and do the Lord's business. I'm sad that people can't get passed the fact that God has blessed Ol Joel for his steadfastness in spreading the Gospel to the masses. There are many different types of teachers. Some teach the meaty stuff in the word, while others are evangelists and have opportunity to get on tv and reach millions that would not have been reached years ago. I think God chooses such men for such times and places.

Just because Joel O. doesn't preach deep theology when he gets interviewed is no reason for Christians to be mad at him. He surely is not going to have an opportunity to preach the whole council of God on news shows or programs that the unsaved have invited him on. If you are looking for fault, you can always find it. If you listen to how the man answers the questions keeping in mind that the unsaved people are wanting to catch him in some kind of condemnation of groups of people. You might even admire his willingness to get up in front of thousands of people and give out the gospel. Seems like he is battling the legalistic Christians more than anyone else.

Reminds me of Jesus and the Pharisees. We each have to seek God's leading in such matters but condemning a brother in Christ is a sad commentary on the Church.

 

[leonardronaldo]

hmmm...seems Mr Washer does have his detractors who disagree with his presentation on salvation..




I don't have a favorite preacher or writer...no one has all the truth...

you can stick anyone under a microscope and come up with some kind of 'bug'...probably why we are told to love rather than try as hard as we can to find fault

it's one thing to disagree with things...it's another to label a person a false prophet or an apostate and yet it seems Christians just simply love to tear others apart...yum yum yum

The term 'carnal church' or 'carnal christian' is a result of misinterpretation of a small passage of Paul's letter, which results in many people continues to live in their carnality and yet at the same time claims they are Christian.

People needs to read Paul's message in whole, at least all his letters to the Corinthians.

 

[ladylynn]

Or receiving Oprah to his church and commends her to be there, forgetting all the heresies and falsehood oprah did (which conclusively means, you are either a coward, an ignorant, or a false teacher (either of the three shall boot you out from becoming a pastor))

Well, if Oprah is not saved, she is saying what unsaved people say., She doesn't know any better she needs Jesus. I'd commend her for being in church too! She is in a place where the name of Jesus is preached. Doesn't mean I'm a coward or ignorant or a false teacher. It means I welcome a sinner into my church. shhhhheeeeessssshhhhhh

 

[leonardronaldo]

The problem is Elysian, that the new age took a biblical idea and Christians who are not familiar with the Bible verses say "Mind renewal"-typical new age ssspeak, be care..."

You need to read Romans 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the RENEWING of your mind, that you may PROVE what the will of God is, that which is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE and PERFECT.

The only way to know what is good and acceptable and perfect is by having our minds renewed as the Bible instructs. Being conformed to the image of Christ and that takes a daily mind renewal. That is Biblical. You will find the world has taken many Biblical ideas such as 'meditate' and Christians who hear that word react the exact same way you did about mind renewal. LOOK OUT, THEY ARE TEACHING MEDITATION!!!!!

Meditating on God's word is Biblical. Don't allow the world to re define These Biblical words and meanings for you. God had the idea first. They just hijacked it and use if for evil.

Lol at this post. Did you tell that to your preacher, Joel Osteen. He is one of the most conformed-to-this-world preacher that I can imagine. Joel Osteen does not care about the will of God, he only cares about his own will (i.e. to have his best life now). A good quote from Pastor John MacArthur on 'your best life now':

"you will only have your best life now, if you are going to hell"

 

[leonardronaldo]

Well leonardronaldo, God loves us dearly and He DOES have a wonderful plan for our lives. And the Bible says that the joy of the Lord is our strength. And that the redeemed of the Lord should say so! We have much to smile about and God has truly blessed us with every spiritual blessing not only for heaven but for here on earth. I for one like JO to smile since he can help counter all those sour pusses who make following Christ like a punishment and not the wonderful JOY that it is!

Haha, yea right.

No answer to the main question. Very typical of Joel Osteen.

 

[leonardronaldo]

Yup, someone made a wrong application and it's like HA HA a FLAW!!! dump them and all that they say forever after. I'm so glad God isn't like us humans. It might help you to listen again and find out why JO may have said something wrong. Like God does with us... He gives us chances to get up when we fall. He also told us to love one another as I have loved you... Amen!

LOL I am sorry, but really? He supposed to be a pastor and what was his flaw? To say that there are many ways to salvation, is only a little flaw needs to be dumped away and forgotten, and he is a pastor and continues to be a pastor?

I rest my case, that's blasphemy to the core. Yet his congregation has just smiled to that. Lord have mercy.