Joyce Meyer's $23,000 Toilet

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jaybird88

Guest
Well you see jaybird88, in actuality, you will never know for sure anymore than you know anything for sure about Joyce Meyer or anyone else. Even our United states court system says your innocent until proven guilty.... sorry that our brethren don't even go that far.
i know for sure that meyer makes her money from selling the teachings of the bible. i dont agree with those that go into preaching as a business. how much money did Jesus make off His ministry?

i have no issue with those that make lots of money. if meyer wants to be rich then i have no problem with her starting a marketing company, car dealership or whatever, but when she is in front of an assembly leading them in worship and askes them to make offerings so she can live a lavish life style, thats where she crosses the line.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
I don't have a dog in the hunt concerning Meyers..........but I would like to see a link to the "quotes" you mention above.[/QUOT

post 207 has the links. search her on the net and you will be overloaded with info about her wealth
 
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Bonnie77

Guest
Thank you. Very well said. God bless you too Pastor.
 
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shotgunner

Guest
(sigh) This is how it reads to me, "Honestly Mary, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but now I'm going to go on and on about how my theological view was right even though you expressed that this was a deeply painful subject. No matter what, it's important that you know that my view is the right view. Even if it means I cause you more pain. What really matters is that *I* am understood and that *my* stance is clearly seen as the correct one."

So, since publicly revealing my pain wasn't enough for you to moderate your need to be right, why don't we pretend that I completely agree with you so you will stop stomping around my pain with your big doctrine boots on.
I am sincerely sorry your feelings were hurt, but no I won't say that what God said isn't true to make you feel better. From my viewpoint unbelief robs too many people, you included.
 
Nov 25, 2014
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I am sincerely sorry your feelings were hurt, but no I won't say that what God said isn't true to make you feel better. From my viewpoint unbelief robs too many people, you included.
Except you don't know that unbelief is the root cause.

And I didn't ask you to say that "what God said isn't true."

Here's my question: Why did you have to make any personal remarks at all? Is it impossible to discuss a TOPIC without going after someone personally (and blindly, mind you).

You STILL don't know the situation but you still insist on giving me your "insight" to a situation that you know nothing about. All I can presume is that you want to make sure that your insight is shared. There is no evidence of caring for me as a person. You care about your own wisdom being displayed.

Remaining silent, however, was always an option. Remaining silent in regard to matters where you know little/nothing is nearly always the best option.
 
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ladylynn

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You missed the point because you made it about you personally. My response was about prosperity theology. It wasn't about how you live out your life. The remarks about Africa, etc., are unnecessary. I never implied that everyone must be a missionary. I never even implied that I was a missionary.

Here's a summary of what I said:

Prosperity theology and the worship of material goods is a manifestation of modern Western culture.

People involved with this movement refuse to acknowledge that they are living out acculturation.

Historically, the church has NEVER interpreted the "prosperity verses" the way they are now being interpreted.

I align myself with the historic view of scripture.

The idea that people who criticize this theology are somehow doctrinally lacking is a false presumption. The characterization that we are ignorant of God's promises, or that we don't believe in God's promises, or that our faith is too weak to lean into God's promises is simply false.

We read the same verses. We get that we serve a big God. We don't presume that the bigness of God means that we deserve a Cadillac and a private jet. INSTEAD, we presume that the big promises of God are about the bigness of his love for all of creation. That the bigness of God means that we can fearlessly go into the world and live out the gospel. This, in fact, is how these verses have ALWAYS been read by the church.

The fact that we aren't bowing to some new, culturally influenced, and self-aggrandizing view of scripture doesn't mean we lack belief, we lack understanding, or that we're inferior Christians.





I don't believe I missed your point at all PoetMary., And I thought I answered your concerns quite well in fact in my post above when you said you would rather follow after the people you named and not do what people like me do. People like me are constantly accused of having heads up in the clouds and that 'normal real Christians don't live the way I do. That God does not 'show up' and change impossible situations into possible ones like I testified He did for me.

Names like heretic have been thrown around with judgments about my motives. I didn't do that with any of you who disagreed with my 'word of faith' leanings. I only stated how it is for me in actuality and not the way I was interpreted in these posts with the added shady and dishonest heart motives attached as some Christian people continually do with Joyce Meyer as well. Is it any wonder I defend her and many like her? I know her theology and she is a sister. If she wants to get a face lift and wear loud cloths that is her choice. Who am I to judge her fashion sense because maybe my taste is more subtle and understated?

Honestly Mary, you are the one who made the major comparisons to people like me vs those true godly people like Mother Teressa and others you mentioned in your post that you would prefer to emulate in your life. I did not make any comparisons. My post was about explaining what was mis represented about a so called 'prosperity' gospel vs what I actually do infact believe and that is to trust God to take care of me and claim by faith what He has already told me in His Word.

I even posted a long list of the promises that I do seek to claim by faith each day. That these promises are for all of us to have. But this thread about Joyce Meyer is about how some say we can't claim those promises and that God doesn't promise to take care of us here on earth. Well, that just is NOT so. And if my saying so causes you to feel accused that is not my intention or my fault. I can only say what God in Christ has done for me and will do for others too.

I don't worship material goods and follow a demented prosperity gospel as I and others have been falsely accused of. Hebrews 11:1 is what I take to heart (as do many others here on CC) and we encourage others to do the same. Without any condemnation at all to anyone here.

I never called anyone here ignorant, lacking or inferior., You will not find those words in any of my posts or in my intentions since I never thought those things Mary. Those are your words and your assessment of what you judged me to say, and you - like Peter judged my motives and my faith incorrectly.

That is the actuality of this situation. And sadly that is why people can't be so quick to judge by what people wear., where they live, what they buy., if they wear jewelry or don't., if they wear makeup or not., if they have a dog that is a mutt or a purebred., etc...etc... etc... How they spend their money is not something everyone is privy too. They don't know if someone just gave 5 million and kept 1 half million.... No one knows but God. If Joyce Meyers buys something and a Christian wants to pick it apart adding this meaning and that meaning., that is wrong in my opinion and leads to envy and strife and tons of false accusations just as they have lead to people falsely accusing me here and they don't even know my bank account balance. :rolleyes:



 
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ladylynn

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[TD="width: 100%"] Deuteronomy 28:12
The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. [/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] In the Bible, rain usually speaks of blessings. Even today, Israelis thank God when it rains because they know that when He gives them rain, their blessings will be plentiful. Their cattle will feed in large green pastures and eat cured, winnowed fodder. And when they see rivers and streams of water flowing from their mountains and hills (Isaiah 30:23–25), they know that times of refreshing have come.
Likewise, you can expect God to rain His blessings on you and bless the work of your hands. Then, you will come to a place where you will “lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow”. In fact, Jesus wants you to know that this is a blessing which He died to give you because when He died, He did not even have a tomb of His own. He was laid in a borrowed tomb, so that you can have the power to lend.
Indeed, our church bears testimony to this blessing. When I first joined the church full-time, it was very small—about 100-odd members. The Lord has, however, rained His blessings on us and blessed the work of our hands. Today, we have a congregation of more than 30,000 members and we are still growing. In fact, our church is lending its support to many ministries, both locally and overseas. We continue to see God pouring His blessings of provision and increase on us, and we thank Him for all the good things that are happening to us.
My friend, there is nothing you can do about the rain but to let it fall. So just expect God to rain His blessings on you! Let them fall! And you will be blessed with more than enough, so that with your needs and your family’s needs more than met, you can be a blessing to others too![/TD]
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Destined to Reign Devotional 11/14
 
Nov 25, 2014
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I don't believe I missed your point at all PoetMary.,

Honestly Mary, you are the one who made the major comparisons to people like me vs those true godly people like Mother Teressa and others you mentioned in your post that you would prefer to emulate in your life.

I didn't compare YOU to Mother Teresa. If you read what I said, you'd realize that I was speaking about the WoF/prosperity/name-it-claim-it DOCTRINE. While the WoF folks want to characterize the non-WoF folks as "not understanding what the bible says about God and his promises," or "not believing God's promises," etc., they are being intellectually dishonest in their diagnosis. So (once again), I made a few points:

1. The WoF/prosperity/name-it-claim-it theological concepts are very new in Christendom.
2. For 2000 years the Church has read the same bible and drawn different conclusions.
3. I prefer to align myself with the teachings of the church for 2000 years.

None of those statements were about you personally.

I'm sorry people have called you a heretic. *I* have never done so. I don't call people names.

I honestly don't care about your personal theology. I was discussing a TOPIC not a person. If you want to base your theology on a particular view of scripture, or on a particular denomination, or on the philosophy of Marx, or on the beauty of the Mona Lisa, or on the waxing and waning of the moon, or on the color of a cat's fur, or on anything...it doesn't matter to me. You can freely choose how and what and why you believe. I don't answer for your theology, you do. This is why I *never* call people names, nor do I assert my theology over their theological view.

Look again at the statements above. I made TWO factual statements and then I gave MY PERSONAL conclusion. If you read these facts and draw a different conclusion, that is YOUR BUSINESS.

However, when you imply that I called you a heretic or I somehow persecuted/bullied/mocked, etc., you for your views, that is simply spin on your part.

What you and others have done regarding your views is that you've implied that people who have different views are somehow lesser. They don't understand scripture. They don't understand God. They lack faith and don't believe God.

The underlying implication is that it is IMPOSSIBLE that someone could read the bible and come to a different conclusion. And yet, it happens.

If you truly believe what you believe then you won't be threatened by the beliefs of others. I know what I believe about God and scripture. I am not threatened when someone else reads the same scriptures and draws a different conclusion. I may find their conclusion limited (and if so, I'll point it out). I may find that there are holes in their thinking, like a failure to acknowledge acculturation (and if so, I'll point it out). But if someone who is die-hard WoF says to me: I get it. I've read the scripture, I've examined the influence of cultural bias on these ideas. I understand how the teaching is at variance with 2000 years of Christian teaching. I STILL BELIEVE IT. Well then...fair enough.

My interest has always been that people have EXAMINED ideas. Self-examination isn't dangerous. Information isn't dangerous. You'll notice if you read my posts that this is the direction they always follow.

I don't mock people. I don't call names. I have a commitment to kindness and compassion. While I am invested (as we all are) in my own way of thinking, I work hard to not assert that my view is the only view.

So you can claim that I don't know scripture (and plenty do). You can call me a heretic (and plenty on this site have). You can say I'm not a Christian (plenty on this site have). You can make snide remarks about my faith (happens all the time). But what you cannot in good conscience do is claim that I've done the same to you. There is no evidence for it.

 
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shotgunner

Guest
Except you don't know that unbelief is the root cause.

And I didn't ask you to say that "what God said isn't true."

Here's my question: Why did you have to make any personal remarks at all? Is it impossible to discuss a TOPIC without going after someone personally (and blindly, mind you).

You STILL don't know the situation but you still insist on giving me your "insight" to a situation that you know nothing about. All I can presume is that you want to make sure that your insight is shared. There is no evidence of caring for me as a person. You care about your own wisdom being displayed.

Remaining silent, however, was always an option. Remaining silent in regard to matters where you know little/nothing is nearly always the best option.
The thing is that I didn't make it personal, you did. I only expounded on something you said and would not have done so then had I known it would cause you personal pain. Remember that you are the one who brought your personal life into the discussion.

Of coarse I want to share insight. I don't look at it as my insight nor do I have any wish to elevate myself. Everyone speaking here does so because they wish to share what they think the gospel is teaching including you. I just happen to disagree with you.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
I didn't compare YOU to Mother Teresa. If you read what I said, you'd realize that I was speaking about the WoF/prosperity/name-it-claim-it DOCTRINE. While the WoF folks want to characterize the non-WoF folks as "not understanding what the bible says about God and his promises," or "not believing God's promises," etc., they are being intellectually dishonest in their diagnosis. So (once again), I made a few points:

Your comparisons were about those in the word of faith (I am in the word of faith) and your opinions about them and how you instead will emulate and follow the people you mentioned. You make the comparisons.


1. The WoF/prosperity/name-it-claim-it theological concepts are very new in Christendom..
2. For 2000 years the Church has read the same bible and drawn different conclusions.
3. I prefer to align myself with the teachings of the church for 2000 years.

None of those statements were about you personally. Well you are a Catholic and I'm posting about my word of faith beliefs and you did post about my belief. Just like when you thought "I" mis characterized the Catholic faith you hold to, 'you' have 'corrected' me of what you considered false information Mary. Please afford me the same courtesy to 'correct' you.

I'm sorry people have called you a heretic. *I* have never done so. I don't call people names.

You posted wrong info about the word of faith issues that I hold too and you will not accept correction about your wrong generalities. Giving wrong info is wrong and you should admit it not defend it Mary.

I honestly don't care about your personal theology. I was discussing a TOPIC not a person. If you want to base your theology on a particular view of scripture, or on a particular denomination, or on the philosophy of Marx, or on the beauty of the Mona Lisa, or on the waxing and waning of the moon, or on the color of a cat's fur, or on anything...it doesn't matter to me. You can freely choose how and what and why you believe. I don't answer for your theology, you do. This is why I *never* call people names, nor do I assert my theology over their theological view.


Look again at the statements above. I made TWO factual statements and then I gave MY PERSONAL conclusion. If you read these facts and draw a different conclusion, that is YOUR BUSINESS.



However, when you imply that I called you a heretic or I somehow persecuted/bullied/mocked, etc., you for your views, that is simply spin on your part.

What you and others have done regarding your views is that you've implied that people who have different views are somehow lesser. They don't understand scripture. They don't understand God. They lack faith and don't believe God.

As I said before, You will not see any of my posts saying anything like that nor have I implied those things. You have taken your issues of feeling less and projected them on me doing that to you. I never did that and you won't see it in any of my posts Mary. If I believe in healing that is my belief., I have no opinion about any one else's faith. I answer for my own faith before God and so do you. If someone is not experiencing healing there are many reasons and "I" am not privy to them., no one is.

The underlying implication is that it is IMPOSSIBLE that someone could read the bible and come to a different conclusion. And yet, it happens.

Again Mary, you are saying I have am implying that people can't come to different conclusions about the Bible when they read it. If anything I have seen as many people as there are - there are also different conclusions. Happens alllllll the time every day.

If you truly believe what you believe then you won't be threatened by the beliefs of others. I know what I believe about God and scripture. I am not threatened when someone else reads the same scriptures and draws a different conclusion. I may find their conclusion limited (and if so, I'll point it out). I may find that there are holes in their thinking, like a failure to acknowledge acculturation (and if so, I'll point it out). But if someone who is die-hard WoF says to me: I get it. I've read the scripture, I've examined the influence of cultural bias on these ideas. I understand how the teaching is at variance with 2000 years of Christian teaching. I STILL BELIEVE IT. Well then...fair enough.
And there you go again, (I understand how the teaching is at variance with 2000 years of Christian teaching. I STILL BELIEVE IT.) I don't see my faith and the teachings of the Bible to be at variance with 2000 years of Christian teaching Mary., those are your words Mary not mine. And your idea that there were no believers who were believing in the promises of God and acting on them back years ago was already dealt with and disagreed with. Your time line is not accurate. Believing God's promises has been going on for many years., it's not new to Christians.

My interest has always been that people have EXAMINED ideas. Self-examination isn't dangerous. Information isn't dangerous. You'll notice if you read my posts that this is the direction they always follow.


I don't mock people. I don't call names. I have a commitment to kindness and compassion. While I am invested (as we all are) in my own way of thinking, I work hard to not assert that my view is the only view.

So you can claim that I don't know scripture (and plenty do). You can call me a heretic (and plenty on this site have). You can say I'm not a Christian (plenty on this site have). You can make snide remarks about my faith (happens all the time). But what you cannot in good conscience do is claim that I've done the same to you. There is no evidence for it.
??? I didn't do that either Mary....


Well, apparently your memory isn't very good today so below is what you did type., and how I responded to it in the post after. Please read and refresh you memory Mary. Your post was a wrong representation of word of faith that I and most hold to. I posted that God had met my needs and gave testimony to it and this is your post after that. I don't believe in getting fancy cars or the things you wrote here. You were simply corrected and have yet to accept the correction.





PoetMary

Senior Member
Join DateNovember 25th, 2014Age45Posts591Rep Power10

Re: Joyce Meyer's $23,000 Toilet


There's a significant difference between claiming that God is intimately interested in all aspects of our lives and God is some divine Santa in the sky.

The bible promises that all of our NEEDS will be met. No such promises are made regarding our wants. Part of the problem with the whole prosperity thing (and the slippery, deceptive aspect to it all) is that people keep cranking the bar.

Oh, we need a car to help our ministry. Oh we need a bigger car. Oh we need a LUXURY car. Oh, GOD HAS PROMISED TO PROVIDE US A LUXURY CAR. Uh...no.

Seriously...who cares? Solomon was right when he called it all vanity. The sheer amount of energy wasted by people seeking to feather their already substantial nests (in the West) is incredible. There is a major confusion of wants vs. needs.

I can ask God to provide my wants...he may or may not do so. Alternatively, I could prioritize and understand the difference between wants and needs. Now, instead of praying that I get everything I've ever wanted, I can lay aside that which is unnecessary and focus on the needs of others.




 
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ladylynn

Guest

ladylynn

Senior Member
Join DateMarch 19th, 2013Age57Posts936Rep Power8

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Re: Joyce Meyer's $23,000 Toilet[/h]
The Bible has said the same thing for all the years it's been with us and Christians have believed and witnessed it. God is not subject to the times in history. His Word is true for all time for all believers. Service to God is a natural reaction to the love of God in Christ. We love Him because He first loved us. So service is something we have a deep desire to do.

I don't intellectualize God anymore PoetMary. I don't look down the road in the history books and dwell on how other people think and thought about life and reacted to it. Their sociological attitudes vs other people's sociological attitudes and beliefs. While I'm not ignorant of history, I do not run my life according people in any age in time.

I do not dwell on how people died horrible miserable tortured deaths like when I would dwell on and re-read 'Foxes Book of Martyr's' learning all about how sinful men killed others and sucked all hope of God and goodness from their lives. Imagining the pain and agony of screaming human's suffering in the depths of despair., How justice was lost to them and doom was the last thing they could think about.

That not only happened through all the generations it's still happening now. My focus is and MUST be (just like YOURS must be) just like the hopeful faithfilled believers in the past who went through tribulations ... The Bible instructs us ALL on how our thoughts are to be and what they should be focusing on. The saints in times past also had Philippians 4 just like I do when the Bible was available to believers.,and the promises were just as good and the directions were just as clear;

Philippians 4:8 ....For the rest brethren, whatever is true, whatever is worthy of reverence and is honorable and seemly, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely and lovable, whatever is kind and winsome and gracious, if there is any virtue and excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think on and weigh and take account of these things (fix your MINDS on them)

The promises are the same as they have always been for us new covenant saints. We are told how to think and what to put weight on. Not on the things unsaved people are left alone to think on since they don't have Jesus. We have Him and the promises He died to secure for us. We have the HolySpirit indwelling us. We have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness.

So don't be angry if I'm joyful, don't judge me for not focusing on the ugly things of this world. I would encourage you to also read Philippians 4., read the whole chapter. Be encouraged and joyful that Jesus has not left us alone to go this life.


"The world you live in is simply not the world most of us mortals inhabit." Well then PeterJens, get with the program!! :D You can take hold of Philippians 4:8 just as good as I can. So can you PoetMary.

We each have a choice on how we want to live this Christian life. If you want to go to Africa PoetMary more power to you if that is where God is directing you. But for right now God is sending me to work each day to witness to people here in NY. I firmly believe we are to grow and minister where we are planted until God sends us somewhere else.







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Billyd and Magenta like this.

It is of the utmost importance that we have peace with ourselves and accept God's love into our hearts. While we were yet in weakness powerless to help ourselves, at the fitting time Christ died for in behalf of the ungodly.
 
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Dear reader,

I do not trust those who talk in general terms about following Jesus and do not address the issue of claiming healing and blessing that is already given, which leads to the cultivation of greed and excess.

If people want to write loads of stuff about something else, it is actually admitting defeat but hoping no one notices.
Jesus did not promise us perfect bodies or no hunger following Him. He promised us eternal life, and a desire to meet needs and love those people around us.

Walking with Jesus is about transcending the world and obvious rewards of money and influence, but having something of value is also important, which people often miss. The answer was to put energy into the powerless and needy, widows and orphans. But I am sure this is not what the "power and gifts" people see as their ambition.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
Therefore do not worry, saying, “What shall we eat?” or “What shall we drink?” or “What shall we wear?” For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
— Matthew 6:31–32
Give all your worries and cares to God, for He cares about you.
— 1 Peter 5:7, NLT
…what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? If you then, being evil, know how to give gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!
— Matthew 7:9–11
Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.
— Mark 11:24
Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
— Philippians 4:6–7
For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
— Romans 5:17
And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose for them.
— Romans 8:28, NLT
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
— 3 John 1–2, KJV
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
— James 1:5
Remember the Lord your God. He is the one who gives you power to be successful…
— Deuteronomy 8:18, NLT
The Lord will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand, and He will bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
— Deuteronomy 28:8
Then Abraham lifted his eyes and looked, and there behind him was a ram caught in a thicket by its horns. So Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up for a burnt offering instead of his son.
— Genesis 22:13
…let them say continually, “Let the Lord be magnified, who has pleasure in the prosperity of His servant.”
— Psalm 35:27
Delight yourself also in the Lord, and He shall give you the desires of your heart.
— Psalm 37:4
Blessed be the Lord, who daily loads us with benefits, the God of our salvation!
— Psalm 68:19
“For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”
— Jeremiah 29:11, NIV
When You Have Jesus, You Have Everything
Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
— John 6:35, NLT
as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,
— 2 Peter 1:3
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption.
— 1 Corinthians 1:30
To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
— Colossians 1:27
…Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
— Colossians 2:2–3
For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
— 2 Corinthians 1:20
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.
— 2 Corinthians 8:9
and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
— Colossians 2:10
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
— Romans 8:16–17
And this same God who takes care of me will supply all your needs from His glorious riches, which have been given to us in Christ Jesus.
— Philippians 4:19, NLT
Teach those who are rich in this world not to be proud and not to trust in their money, which is so unreliable. Their trust should be in God, who richly gives us all we need for our enjoyment.
— 1 Timothy 6:17, NLT
Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, And whose hope is the Lord. For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, which spreads out its roots by the river, and will not fear when heat comes; but its leaf will be green, and will not be anxious in the year of drought, nor will cease from yielding fruit.
— Jeremiah 17:7–8
“Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to Me. Get away with Me and you’ll recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with Me and work with Me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with Me and you’ll learn to live freely and lightly.”
— Matthew 11:28–30, The Message
God’s Supply Is More Than Enough
Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us.
— Ephesians 3:20
For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
— John 1:16, NASB
And Jesus took the loaves, and when He had given thanks He distributed them to the disciples, and the disciples to those sitting down; and likewise of the fish, as much as they wanted. So when they were filled, He said to His disciples, “Gather up the fragments that remain, so that nothing is lost.” Therefore they gathered them up, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves which were left over by those who had eaten.
— John 6:11–13
The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.
— John 10:10
He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
— Romans 8:32
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.
— Ephesians 1:3
For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.
— Psalm 50:10
You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath…
— Deuteronomy 28:12–13
…So Elisha said to her, “What shall I do for you? Tell me, what do you have in the house?” And she said, “Your maidservant has nothing in the house but a jar of oil.” Then he said, “Go, borrow vessels from everywhere, from all your neighbors—empty vessels; do not gather just a few. “And when you have come in, you shall shut the door behind you and your sons; then pour it into all those vessels, and set aside the full ones.” So she went from him and shut the door behind her and her sons, who brought the vessels to her; and she poured it out. Now it came to pass, when the vessels were full, that she said to her son, “Bring me another vessel.” And he said to her, “There is not another vessel.” So the oil ceased. Then she came and told the man of God. And he said, “Go, sell the oil and pay your debt; and you and your sons live on the rest.”
— 2 Kings 4:2–7
Then he commanded, “Open that eastern window,” and he opened it. Then he said, “Shoot!” So he shot an arrow. Elisha proclaimed, “This is the Lord’s arrow, an arrow of victory over Aram, for you will completely conquer the Arameans at Aphek.” Then he said, “Now pick up the other arrows and strike them against the ground.” So the king picked them up and struck the ground three times. But the man of God was angry with him. “You should have struck the ground five or six times!” he exclaimed. “Then you would have beaten Aram until it was entirely destroyed. Now you will be victorious only three times.”
— 2 Kings 13:17–19, NLT
The faithful love of the Lord never ends! His mercies never cease. Great is his faithfulness; His mercies begin afresh each morning.
— Lamentations 3:22–23, NLT





And I would encourage all, including you Peter., to trust the keeping of your body soul and spirit in the hands of the One Who is able to do what He has promised. Take these verses in the Bible to heart by faith believe what He has said and walk in His love and watch care. Take Hebrews 11:1 and memorize it and each day seek to learn to walk by faith and not by sight.

Heb.11:1 NOW FAITH is the assurance the confirmation, the title deed of the things we hope for, being the proof of things we do not see and the conviction of their reality (faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses)
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Someone said earlier on this thread the ladylynn and myself were saying the same thing.

That cannot be true or else ladylynn would not be continuing or failing to address the core issue, money and wealth are linked to influence in the world, not God. The world is about selfish pushing of oneself above anyone or anything. It can even show itself in these threads, under the disguise of bible verses.

Everything I do is entrusted to God, he underpins all that I have, but what is it all about? Entering and walking in the Kingdom. The kingdom is founded on how we behave towards each other, whether intelligent or stupid, rich or poor, no matter the circumstances. The key issue is righteousness and forgiveness, which often have not involved wealth because wealth was mainly historically gained by exploitation.

Entering the Kingdom is founded on who we are and what is the sin in our hearts. The sin is we do not know how to love, and as a result hurt each other rather than face the truth we need healing of hurts, to be loved and meet our deepest needs. Is this the message from these people? No. It is accept your dreams, and know God will fulfill them in wealth and health. That is the gospel of the world, the advertiser who says the latest car will transform who you are.

Jesus was about being born again, rebuilding what is of value to you, resetting your life goals, helping you know God hugs you, lifts you up, gives you life, so that you can give it to others. Wealth and power are irrelevant to this reality.

When you see a mother pick up a crying baby and reassures it, do you think of wealth, or the pictures on the walls, or the education or standing of the mother?

Jesus died on the cross to say, you are forever in His heart, He will do anything to save you and tell you, you are loved secure in eternity. This is the theme down through the ages, time and again people walk in this reality.

But wealth is like a comfort blanket, that separates the pain and risk from our hearts and says we are safe. It is deceitful because it is only fleeting and temporary, an impression. Yet this is the theme of the prosperity gospel, and those you wrap themselves in wealth instead of Jesus claim this is spiritual reality rather than idolatry.

Only in todays culture where wealth is everywhere, can this story be told, because before death and struggles would break the spell, and too many would know the security that it brings is illusory. It is no new revelation, but as old as life itself and as empty. But it is the dream of the developing world, that God cares about you and will prosper you, bring you out of poverty into a good lifestyle. In part this is true, righteousness is the right way of living, but where rich or poor does not matter.

Until you grasp this you have not grasped what Jesus came to do.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
Someone said earlier on this thread the ladylynn and myself were saying the same thing.

That cannot be true or else ladylynn would not be continuing or failing to address the core issue, money and wealth are linked to influence in the world, not God. The world is about selfish pushing of oneself above anyone or anything. It can even show itself in these threads, under the disguise of bible verses.

Peter, I have addressed the core issue as it is - and - many times. Money and wealth are not ONLY linked to selfish influences in the world but most certainly and most IMPORTANTLY ; God influences the USES of money in the world and THAT makes all the difference. Selfish people with or without God will hoard money., "get all they 'can' then 'can' all they get, then sit on the 'can' and try to hold onto it and hoard it as if money is going to answer their needs when some problem comes.,they figure alls they gotta do is tap into their money hoard and that will take care of all their problems. They won't need to call on God, they just use money to get them out of a bind. But they found out they were very wrong.

Those people are just like the guy in the Bible who thought he could store wealth in his barns and then make bigger barns to store even more. This was not pleasing to God then nor is it now. We all know what happend to that man since the guys life was required of him and he couldn't take the wealth with him or use it when he died. Money didn't secure him salvation or keep him from dying. His wealth blinded him to the truth.

That man put his trust and security in money., not in God. But Peter, not everyone who has money does this. There are many believers who use money properly and pleasing to God and He increases the persons ability to make wealth and use it for His work here on earth.

Money is not evil., it is the love of money that is evil. You need to get that major truth about wealth clear in order to see a proper view of how God gives us the increase as believers so you won't judge and accuse incorrectly as you have done over and over in this thread.

It still astounds me that people are so prejudice about their ideas of who is godly and who is not BASED on something so superficial as how much money they have. Because you and I differ on how we see wealth and how God uses it, you are actually holding me up to you. :eek: and announced to all who are readers on this thread that you are the proper man of God and I am the one not to be trusted in the comparison. :eek: If anything Peter., that IS out rightly improper and wrong. No one needs to know either one of us personally in our daily lives in order to see that sort of judgement is wrong Peter no matter how you slice it.
 
S

sydlit

Guest
#254 + #255 See? Same thing.;):)
Love you both!:)
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Let me put it simply. A preacher stands up and says God gave me a figure, $1200 you need to give in the next 5 minutes and God will give you back 100 times that amount.

Now this is selling greed and people answering greed. It is so blatant people have sold to the idea follow God get rich that this open heresy is not seen. The point is simple, if the preacher directly benefits financially from this preaching, that is his motivation and if the giver gives because they believe this reward is literally what God is offering that is greed also.

I have never seen Gods love given expecting return, but knowing that blessing will result. Mostly nothing will happen, but because there is need so giving is done. The principle is out of the flow of the heart not because their is an equation involved.

I am not saying what people have is the issue but how preachers motivate people to give and why they do it a particular way. It is obvious to me there is a real desire to distort and slander this message into envy and an issue about how wealth is personally handled.

These preachers cannot forever lie about the miracles and desire the millionaire life style, and not in the end get caught out.
The majority of the church is full of ordinary people living ordinary lives, and these ideas are irrelevant. If it teaches us anything a little wealth corrupts the soul, and greed is never filled.
 
Jun 23, 2015
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I didn't compare YOU to Mother Teresa. If you read what I said, you'd realize that I was speaking about the WoF/prosperity/name-it-claim-it DOCTRINE. While the WoF folks want to characterize the non-WoF folks as "not understanding what the bible says about God and his promises," or "not believing God's promises," etc., they are being intellectually dishonest in their diagnosis. So (once again), I made a few points:

1. The WoF/prosperity/name-it-claim-it theological concepts are very new in Christendom.
2. For 2000 years the Church has read the same bible and drawn different conclusions.
3. I prefer to align myself with the teachings of the church for 2000 years.

None of those statements were about you personally.

I'm sorry people have called you a heretic. *I* have never done so. I don't call people names.

I honestly don't care about your personal theology. I was discussing a TOPIC not a person. If you want to base your theology on a particular view of scripture, or on a particular denomination, or on the philosophy of Marx, or on the beauty of the Mona Lisa, or on the waxing and waning of the moon, or on the color of a cat's fur, or on anything...it doesn't matter to me. You can freely choose how and what and why you believe. I don't answer for your theology, you do. This is why I *never* call people names, nor do I assert my theology over their theological view.

Look again at the statements above. I made TWO factual statements and then I gave MY PERSONAL conclusion. If you read these facts and draw a different conclusion, that is YOUR BUSINESS.

However, when you imply that I called you a heretic or I somehow persecuted/bullied/mocked, etc., you for your views, that is simply spin on your part.

What you and others have done regarding your views is that you've implied that people who have different views are somehow lesser. They don't understand scripture. They don't understand God. They lack faith and don't believe God.

The underlying implication is that it is IMPOSSIBLE that someone could read the bible and come to a different conclusion. And yet, it happens.

If you truly believe what you believe then you won't be threatened by the beliefs of others. I know what I believe about God and scripture. I am not threatened when someone else reads the same scriptures and draws a different conclusion. I may find their conclusion limited (and if so, I'll point it out). I may find that there are holes in their thinking, like a failure to acknowledge acculturation (and if so, I'll point it out). But if someone who is die-hard WoF says to me: I get it. I've read the scripture, I've examined the influence of cultural bias on these ideas. I understand how the teaching is at variance with 2000 years of Christian teaching. I STILL BELIEVE IT. Well then...fair enough.

My interest has always been that people have EXAMINED ideas. Self-examination isn't dangerous. Information isn't dangerous. You'll notice if you read my posts that this is the direction they always follow.

I don't mock people. I don't call names. I have a commitment to kindness and compassion. While I am invested (as we all are) in my own way of thinking, I work hard to not assert that my view is the only view.

So you can claim that I don't know scripture (and plenty do). You can call me a heretic (and plenty on this site have). You can say I'm not a Christian (plenty on this site have). You can make snide remarks about my faith (happens all the time). But what you cannot in good conscience do is claim that I've done the same to you. There is no evidence for it.


Have you come to know the truth yet poetmary? When you do, I suppose you will understand that your "when saved "statement on your profile does not agree with scripture. Can you explain how you confessed with your mouth etc as in Romans 10:9-10 when you were a teeny baby?


Ive been asking you this for months now and you will not respond . Will you now?

I dont need a long drawn out response that you are so very good at. I just want you to tell me if your statement lines up with scripture and if it doesnt,will you retract it?
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
Let me put it simply. A preacher stands up and says God gave me a figure, $1200 you need to give in the next 5 minutes and God will give you back 100 times that amount.

Now this is selling greed and people answering greed. It is so blatant people have sold to the idea follow God get rich that this open heresy is not seen. The point is simple, if the preacher directly benefits financially from this preaching, that is his motivation and if the giver gives because they believe this reward is literally what God is offering that is greed also.

I have never seen Gods love given expecting return, but knowing that blessing will result. Mostly nothing will happen, but because there is need so giving is done. The principle is out of the flow of the heart not because their is an equation involved.

I am not saying what people have is the issue but how preachers motivate people to give and why they do it a particular way. It is obvious to me there is a real desire to distort and slander this message into envy and an issue about how wealth is personally handled.

These preachers cannot forever lie about the miracles and desire the millionaire life style, and not in the end get caught out.
The majority of the church is full of ordinary people living ordinary lives, and these ideas are irrelevant. If it teaches us anything a little wealth corrupts the soul, and greed is never filled.


Let me put it even more simply., You won't apologize for posting something wrong and you continue to justify your insults with more posts. You have made this about not just a bunch of un named preachers but you have accused me here on this thread Peter.

What you think are obvious facts about people are far from the truth yet you keep stating your opinions and feelings as facts. I have done none of the things you have accused and I have thought none of the things you said., and yet you keep posting on top of posting the same stuff. No apology., no admitting to wrong doing. Just posting more of the same.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Let me put it even more simply., You won't apologize for posting something wrong and you continue to justify your insults with more posts. You have made this about not just a bunch of un named preachers but you have accused me here on this thread Peter.

What you think are obvious facts about people are far from the truth yet you keep stating your opinions and feelings as facts. I have done none of the things you have accused and I have thought none of the things you said., and yet you keep posting on top of posting the same stuff. No apology., no admitting to wrong doing. Just posting more of the same.
I am posting insults? Is it an insult to post what people are actually saying and doing? Is it an insult to compare these actions and words with Jesus and His gospel?

If this is an insult, then people are insulting themselves and lying about their own behaviour. Those who defend this behaviour are themselves confirming it is acceptable. I do not know why you want to appear to defend Joyce and this way of behaviour.

Maybe you are trying to say it is not really there, they are actually blessed by God and helping bringing the Kingdom reign on earth. But the reality is they are behaving like this, preaching like this and there hearts are lost in the wealth they are surrounded by. Whether they know the Lord properly at the end I do not know, but I could never come close to this heresy.

Wrong doing? Or putting it another way sin. Do you know who opposed me most talking about love and being transformed within by the Holy Spirit? People who follow this way of christian faith. So you know who did not understand we are justified alone by faith in the cross of christ, or the meaning of brokeness or weeping over sin, the people who follow this way of christian faith.

Do you know who has admitted this is new theology, in the 20th century, the people who follow this way of christian faith.
It is deception and greed, it is a dead end and leads to death. I and many others have had experience of these groups and the destructive nature of their attitudes.

The problem I have is I am called to witness to Jesus and His gospel and nothing else. So the words I speak testify to this.
I am sorry you find this insulting, but the gospel has always been an insult to sinners, but salvation to the saved.