Joyce Meyer's $23,000 Toilet

PeterJens · Nov 17, 2015

Dear reader, I spent many years talking to muslims, and found they felt they had the truth, and only if you agreed with them were you worthy of respect. As soon as you started talking love, mercy, forgiveness, they went all over the place.

The key issue was how they behaved and how they justified this behaviour. In their mind it was all justified by their theology though the behaviour was obviously selfish and polarised those who agreed with them as Gods chosen and those not, as satan.

The prosperity gospel follows the same agenda. The door that opens up to every spiritual influence is prophecy. A man stand in front of a group of christians and calls out words of knowledge about individuals and gives insights into what is going on. Then they slip in advice from dead prophets, who are praying for the church. Now do you notice their is little difference between this behaviour and psychics who are bringing messages from the dead.

Or take the messages about the angels who are bringing wealth, or gem stones, or feathers, or gold dust.
This is just a mad circus show, without content. What this leads to is saying you are extra blessed if these signs appear, not your lives expressing love and praise to each other and to the Lord.

The fruit of the spirit is simple. Helping widows and orphans, hands reaching out to the needy and those weak and unfortunate in the world. The apostles faced versions of the prosperity gospel and rejected it.

Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you.
James 5:1

You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.
Rev 3:17

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Rev 3:18

Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! You have begun to reign—and that without us! ........
For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to human beings. We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly. We have become the scum of the earth, the garbage of the world—right up to this moment.
1 Cor 4:8-13

ladylynn · Nov 17, 2015

PeterJens said:

Peter, I have addressed the core issue as it is - and - many times. Money and wealth are not ONLY linked to selfish influences in the world but most certainly and most IMPORTANTLY ; God influences the USES of money in the world and THAT makes all the difference. Selfish people with or without God will hoard money., "get all they 'can' then 'can' all they get, then sit on the 'can' and try to hold onto it and hoard it as if money is going to answer their needs when some problem comes.,they figure alls they gotta do is tap into their money hoard and that will take care of all their problems. They won't need to call on God, they just use money to get them out of a bind. But they found out they were very wrong.

Those people are just like the guy in the Bible who thought he could store wealth in his barns and then make bigger barns to store even more. This was not pleasing to God then nor is it now. We all know what happend to that man since the guys life was required of him and he couldn't take the wealth with him or use it when he died. Money didn't secure him salvation or keep him from dying. His wealth blinded him to the truth.

That man put his trust and security in money., not in God. But Peter, not everyone who has money does this. There are many believers who use money properly and pleasing to God and He increases the persons ability to make wealth and use it for His work here on earth.

Money is not evil., it is the love of money that is evil. You need to get that major truth about wealth clear in order to see a proper view of how God gives us the increase as believers so you won't judge and accuse incorrectly as you have done over and over in this thread.

It still astounds me that people are so prejudice about their ideas of who is godly and who is not BASED on something so superficial as how much money they have. Because you and I differ on how we see wealth and how God uses it, you are actually holding me up to you. and announced to all who are readers on this thread that you are the proper man of God and I am the one not to be trusted in the comparison. If anything Peter., that IS out rightly improper and wrong. No one needs to know either one of us personally in our daily lives in order to see that sort of judgement is wrong Peter no matter how you slice it.

And so Peter you need to be reminded yet again. I've said the same thing to you more than once and you keep coming back with further justification for your insults. It's a sad person who can't admit he is wrong.

PeterJens · Nov 17, 2015

ladylynn said:

I got to laugh, because your argument is a joke. Humour comes from putting two things together that do not fit and are rediculous. I have wealth and you have wealth.

The small point I am making is giving to good causes is not connected to how much you get blessed back with.
You appear to be defending this idea and those who preach it. You want to turn this into me hating wealth, where I am actually saying wealth is irrelevant, and if anything, just gets in the way to finding reality and Jesus.

Jesus had the wealth of heaven but came as a poor man, with only the generosity of those he met to survive on.

So I am not holding you up to anything but those who preach the message of prosperity is good, poverty is evil.
Jesus says simply wealth is destructive to the soul, it removes us from the realities of love and cost.

There are 3 groups in society. The poor who know money is merely a tool of survival, what matters is friends and support. The rich are often lonely, though they can do anything, without good relationships it is meaningless.
In between are the aspirers who believe wealth brings meaning, and are the biggest snobs on the planet. What actually is reality is how you relate and connect which is about personality and opportunity.

Now you appear to not agree with any of this, but that is fine, it is your life, but that is not Jesus and His way.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Notice there is no "Blessed are the rich because of their generosity everything will go well with them."

So I laugh at you, knowing whatever your motivation, you cannot face the spiritual reality of Jesus's message.

Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
Matt 25:34-36

Maybe this is your heart, and things are just confused. I hope so, but there is nothing wrong in what I have said or shared.
Like many I have come across here, you see evil where there is none, condemnation where rightly it should be given.

I love you as a sister and wonder how you ended up in this state or with such a bunch of thieves.

On this point, a good number of the preachers have been put in prison for fraud. Many have been caught lying and deceiving their congregations, but they are so blessed, they come back into ministry all over again as wolves consuming their flock. So integrity, righteousness and truth actually mean zero, it is just a show....

Reborn · Nov 17, 2015

I bet her toilet is only worth $18,600 now?

You know what they say.....the second you drive a toilet off the lot, it loses it's value.

cmarieh · Nov 17, 2015

You know what? Because this topic would not go away in my head, I was sitting in class last week where we were talking about deductions for a home business and for some I reason I raised my hand and said we could claim the bathroom if we hold our very important meetings in there. Once I realized what I said, my face turned beat red.

On the bright side I got to know my classmates and oh boy they learned a lot about me

ladylynn · Nov 18, 2015

PeterJens

Senior Member

Join DateFebruary 24th, 2015Age55Posts1,718 Rep Power8
[h=2]

Re: Joyce Meyer's $23,000 Toilet[/h]

Originally Posted by ladylynn

God has shown up in life at times and where an issue was an impossibility - He erased the impossible situation and changed it in an instant. One second I'm standing there in what is total ruin.... then God shows up and changes it.
The reason we don't have is we don't ask. God wants us to ask for all our needs in life.

The world you live in is simply not the world most of us mortals inhabit.

"Oh my life was a total ruin, and he showed up, and he put it right instantly."
This sounds like a drama queen in a tizzy talking about arranging a social event that was just overwhelming.

"We do not ask" - James is talking about a whole chain of desires
1. Desiring the wrong things
2. Wanting something enough to kill for
3. Wanting but never getting because you do not bring it to the Lord
4. Asking but with the wrong heart, and a desire for self indulgence

Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:9-10

This is not the picture you are painting, but that is the picture James is painting.

It is easy to say ask God and He will deliver but this is simply wrong.

God blesses us with everything we have. I do not ask for the things, I rejoice in what he provides, and it is enough, I am satisfied, content.

I share what is my understanding and position. I am not right, I just want to point to what I see as the truth, but am happy if you can share something to make my life richer, and hopefully I can do likewise for you.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

Peter, your posts are about insults and belittling. Your Christian love is a bit difficult to find here and your words are endless.

PeterJens · Nov 18, 2015

ladylynn said:

I think I am finally understanding what you are saying. If I characterise a theology that says you the individual believer is King, can command things into existance, can heal and be wealthy by right is heresy, insane and wrong that is an insult.

No that is sanity, walking in love and in Jesus in the way. Belittling? Now all I can get from this is you want so much to be a god, suggesting you are a normal human believer is belittling. It is like me shouting up to someone climbing the outside of a building claiming they can fly, and me shouting up, "you will die, come down" is belittling. I hope it is me seeing and meeting a real need.

The Lord loves you and me and that is enough. It is enough because He is God. He could provide us with everything to make us the most powerful, exalted etc. but that would be against His nature. His nature is for us to see the need, and to help without reward or recognition, to show love to the loveless, to bring justice to the weak and defenceless.

It is why the prosperity gospel and all this exalting theology is just not His way of doing things.

Paul and Silas........they had been severely flogged, they were thrown into prison, and the jailer was commanded to guard them carefully......About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them.........The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Acts 16:22-30

This is all about sharing what matters, and walking with Jesus. Paul and the apostles never walked in the wealth and healing theology, because it is a different gospel and mind set which is just a delusion.

tanach · Nov 18, 2015

Lancelot said:

For the sake of her comfort zone I hope the Jewels are not encrusted on the seat.

ladylynn · Nov 18, 2015

PeterJens said:

Well Peter, you win. You have insulted me enough to no longer want to engage in any sort of communication with you. Your belittling to each thing I share has actually caused me to be sad and discouraged. Anyone who could be so mean is not someone I desire to discuss issues with any longer.
God's Word is a good way to end our discussions in this thread.

“Lord, help!” they cried in their trouble, and He saved them from their distress. He sent out His word and healed them, snatching them from the door of death.
— Psalm 107:19–20 (NLT)For He will rescue you from every trap and protect you from deadly disease.
— Psalm 91:3 (NLT)He also brought them out with silver and gold, and there was none feeble among His tribes.
— Psalm 105:37Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.
— 3 John 1:2 (NASB)“The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have [it] more abundantly.”
— John 10:10Do not be afraid of the terrors of the night, nor the arrow that flies in the day. Do not dread the disease that stalks in darkness, nor the disaster that strikes at midday. Though a thousand fall at your side, though ten thousand are dying around you, these evils will not touch you.
— Psalm 91:5–7 (NLT)With long life I will satisfy him, and show him My salvation.
— Psalm 91:16“…I am the Lord who heals you.”
— Exodus 15:26“I will give you back your health and heal your wounds,” says the Lord.
— Jeremiah 30:17 (NLT)Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits: Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases.
— Psalm 103:2–3My son, give attention to my words; incline your ear to my sayings. Do not let them depart from your eyes; keep them in the midst of your heart; for they [are] life to those who find them, and health to all their flesh.
— Proverbs 4:20-22[h=4]Everyone Who Came To Jesus Was Healed[/h]And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people.
— Matthew 4:23News about Him spread as far as Syria, and people soon began bringing to Him all who were sick. And whatever their sickness or disease, or if they were demon-possessed or epileptic or paralyzed—He healed them all.
— Matthew 4:24 (NLT)When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” Jesus said to him, “I will go and heal him.”
— Matthew 8: 5–7 (NIV)When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: “He Himself took our infirmities and bore [our] sicknesses.”
— Matthew 8:16–17…Then Jesus turned to the paralyzed man and said, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and go home!” And the man jumped up and went home!
— Matthew 9:6–7 (NLT)Then great multitudes came to Him, having with them [the] lame, blind, mute, maimed, and many others; and they laid them down at Jesus’ feet, and He healed them.
— Matthew 15:30Jesus had compassion on them and touched their eyes. Immediately they received their sight and followed Him.
— Matthew 20:34 (NIV)And He entered the synagogue again, and a man was there who had a withered hand. So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him. And He said to the man who had the withered hand, “Step forward.” Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent. And when He had looked around at them with anger, being grieved by the hardness of their hearts, He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched [it] out, and his hand was restored as whole as the other.
— Mark 3:1–5A woman in the crowd had suffered for twelve years with constant bleeding. She had suffered a great deal from many doctors, and over the years she had spent everything she had to pay them, but she had gotten no better. In fact, she had gotten worse. She had heard about Jesus, so she came up behind Him through the crowd and touched His robe. For she thought to herself, “If I can just touch His robe, I will be healed.” Immediately the bleeding stopped, and she could feel in her body that she had been healed of her terrible condition.
— Mark 5:25–29 (NLT)Jesus stopped and said, “Call him.” So they called to the blind man, “Cheer up! On your feet! He’s calling you.” Throwing his cloak aside, he jumped to his feet and came to Jesus. “What do you want Me to do for you?” Jesus asked him. The blind man said, “Rabbi, I want to see.” “Go,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you.” Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
— Mark 10:49–52 (NIV)When the sun was setting, all those who had any that were sick with various diseases brought them to Him; and He laid His hands on every one of them and healed them.
— Luke 4:40And the whole multitude sought to touch Him, for power went out from Him and healed [them] all.
— Luke 6:19A funeral procession was coming out as He approached the village gate. The young man who had died was a widow’s only son, and a large crowd from the village was with her. When the Lord saw her, His heart overflowed with compassion. “Don’t cry!” He said. Then He walked over to the coffin and touched it, and the bearers stopped. “Young man,” He said, “I tell you, get up.” Then the dead boy sat up and began to talk! And Jesus gave him back to his mother.
— Luke 7:12–15 (NLT)And a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. When Jesus saw her, He called her forward and said to her, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity.” Then He put His hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
— Luke 13:11–13 (NIV)One of the men lying there had been sick for thirty-eight years. When Jesus saw him and knew he had been ill for a long time, He asked him, “Would you like to get well?” “I can’t, sir,” the sick man said, “for I have no one to put me into the pool when the water bubbles up. Someone else always gets there ahead of me.” Jesus told him, “Stand up, pick up your mat, and walk!” Instantly, the man was healed! He rolled up his sleeping mat and began walking!
— John 5:5–9 (NLT)“…how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”
— Acts 10:38

PeterJens · Nov 18, 2015

ladylynn said:

I am sorry if you feel insulted but you are insulted at Jesus and His gospel. The gospel is about spiritual birth, being freed from sin, showing Gods heart of love and transforming His people so they can be salt of the earth. Healing and miracles follow this message and reality, but are not the reality itself.

Now this has been understood for over 2000 years, so how is it now you and people like you have lost this reality.

I am sorry you feel hurt but my loyalty is to Jesus and not to those who oppose this message.

PeterJens · Nov 18, 2015

Dear reader, there is a simple answer to this question of good health. The Lord gives it you do not have to claim it.
The error is in the belief it is our entitlement rather than a gift of grace.

Wealth. This is Pauls response to blessing or hard times.

I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.
Phil 4:12

Are you reading the words of a man who believes God blesses with wealth, and the lack of wealth or poverty is evil?
No. Then why should anyone believe these ideas of expected wealth are sane or anything to do with the gospel.

Anyone with any sense knows a business run on righteous principles stands a better chance of success than a corrupt, deceptive and evil company. Now the Lord commits to support those who walk righteously and keep peace with enemies. But this is no guarantee of safety or success. But this is what these missguided people would have you believe.

Only in our current western society with good law support and peace, can the principles actually work out. So it is little wonder this exaguration can prosper because we are in such unusual times.

cmarieh · Nov 18, 2015

So.....just a few minutes ago I was reminded of a nickname that I was given and it was after a toilet. Gotta love my dad for giving it to me......sometimes.

oh wait I love him everyday

PeterJens · Nov 19, 2015

What have we learnt? There are people who believe they are entitled to health and wealth which they have not got but can claim it.

The Lord promises blessing, but blessing as gifts of grace that you just receive, no claiming, or reaching out in faith.

There was a claim that Jesus did not do miracles with instant results. But that is all I have read or seen.
The truth is we all get ill, have good and bad times relating to money. But to make these things moral or evil is simply wrong and miss-guided.

But the window is closing because there comes a point when the things claimed to be there are just not, so it all falls apart.

jaybird88 · Nov 19, 2015

wealth should not be a reason one seeks our Lord. where did Jesus teach follow Him to gain material wealth?

if a church leader is teaching people to seek the Lord for wealth they are misleading people.

Jesus gave a very stern warning to those that lead us away from Him.

Matthew 18
"If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Yet · Nov 20, 2015

jaybird88 said:

You mean like in ' bring your tithes and offerings forward and God will open up the windows of heaven and blah, blah, blah!

ladylynn · Nov 20, 2015

Yet said:

Hey Yet, that is the Bible your bla bla bla-ing. Doesn't that bother you a bit? You guys are so money minded it seems that you can't see that God wants to bless His children and money is not an issue for Him. Those believers who have been blessed with earthy things because the Lord found them faithful you shouldn't be angry with them. They just understand the Biblical principle of blessed to be a blessing.

I'd like to share today's devotional with you. Be blessed.

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[TD="width: 100%, align: left"] Leviticus 2:11
‘No grain offering which you bring to the Lord shall be made with leaven, for you shall burn no leaven nor any honey in any offering to the Lord made by fire.
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] When I was a young Christian, I heard of an illustration for Psalm 23 about shepherds who sometimes break the legs of sheep which habitually stray, so as to teach them not to stray. That erroneous teaching—“The Lord is my Shepherd, He breaketh my legs”—stuck with me for years, causing me needless fear of God’s punishment when I felt that I had strayed from Him.

Such erroneous teachings are what God’s Word refers to as “leaven”. That is why Jesus cautioned His disciples, “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.” (Matthew 16:6) The leaven of the Pharisees was their doctrine of legalism, which judges and condemns people who fail to keep God’s laws. The leaven of the Sadducees was their doctrine of humanism, which discounts the supernatural and teaches that everything can be explained away using reasoning or science.

When God told His people in Leviticus 2:11, “No grain offering which you bring to the Lord shall be made with leaven,” we are reminded that how we appreciate Jesus, our grain offering, must not be mixed with wrong teachings. For example, when we talk about “suffering with Christ” (Romans 8:17), we must know that it is not about suffering sicknesses or lack, things which Jesus has redeemed us from, but suffering persecution, scorn and rejection for His name’s sake, which we are likely to face as good Christians.

My friend, what you believe about Jesus is important because the Holy Spirit bears witness only to the truth. (John 16:13) So ask Him to unveil the beauty of Christ and the perfection of His finished work to you when you read God’s Word. Find out from the Word how Christ has redeemed you from every curse and paid for you to enjoy all of God’s blessings with His sacrifice at the cross.

Beloved, get rid of any leaven in your believing. Believe and declare that you are healed, not sick; abundantly supplied, not in lack; and forever righteous in Christ. And when you start believing and confessing God’s truths, the anointing of the Holy Spirit will be released for the breakthrough you need!

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Amen., Since believing God's Word for what He promised, I've not been at all let down or left alone by Him. He has taken care of me and given me encouragement to keep trusting Him. Where there was lack, He caused there to be no lack. Where there was fear, He promised power and love and a sound mind. His love is from everlasting to everlasting. Since He has given us His best by giving us His Son., these other earthly provisions are by far much less and of less importance. The Lord is our Shepherd, we shall not want. Amen.

jaybird88 · Nov 20, 2015

ladylynn said:

i believe he is referring to those that take it upon themselves to speak for our Lord to ask those for money for their own personal vanity and not the Lords glory.
i am very critical of greedy preachers that love money. our world has fallen from our Lord, we need good Christian leaders, the last thing we need is corrupt ones that focus on money.

here is an example - robert schuller and his crystal cathedral. when he built this grand church many were appalled at the giant sums of money it took to build it, when asked why he couldnt give a little of that money to the needy he answered "there will always be people in need"
the money had rotted his heart from the inside out, he cared nothing for those in need, only his grand church that was gonna make him a star.
wouldnt it have been great after the church was built, when they passed the offering treys and no one gave thinking to themselves, "this church will always need money" but lucky for mr schuller they didnt share his selfish greedy philosophies.

Magenta · Nov 20, 2015

Jesus said, "The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want."

mystic7 · Nov 21, 2015

Mine only cost a few hundred bucks, still does the job. Maybe she sleeps on hers, good for her.

ladylynn · Nov 21, 2015

jaybird88 said:

Why jaybird do you allow yourself to be distracted by the Robert Schullers of the world? I have found it most joyous to set my eyes on Jesus instead of the world. Take direction from Him and learn from Him. He is our example. He is the Good Shepherd., we shall not want for anything because of Him. I care not what others do with their material wealth. They are not my example. We are called to follow Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith.

By your reasoning here in your post jaybird, we should shun all good things because there are people in the world who are dying and suffering. It is a fact of life that in the world there WILL BE and there IS tribulation., But Jesus said that HE has overcome the world.

Our hope and security are IN JESUS. And it is our responsibility to look to Him and experience that the JOY of the LORD IS OUR STRENGTH., The Bible does not say the tribulations of the world are our strength. In fact, He warns us about tribulation in the world and not to be overcome with evil but to overcome evil with good.

We are to help those we come in contact with in need. To follow Christ's example of loving, giving and blessing others with the blessings He has blessed us with. Encourage with the encouragement we have been encouraged with. How can we bless others if we are so unblessed and uncared for? What do we have to offer a lost and dying world? We are told NOT to say to those in need... be blessed!!!!!! and then walk away doing nothing to help them. They not only need to hear about Jesus, they need to see Jesus in us.

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