About PAstors

[ladylynn]

Actually satan is very happy that people 'go to church'. They are robbed by the lie of the tithe. At best, being under the traditions of men that makes void the word of God, at worse being placed under a fake law that brings a curse on them. See Galatians. And they are confined to a pew with duct tape over their mouths for the most part while one exalted man with the forbidden title (see Matt.23) does the boring sermon every sunday morning.
I'm going to say don't check out 1Cor.12 and Epecians 4 and Romans 12 to see a biblical gathering. Because if I tell you to check it out you won't. Reverse psychology. Hope it works. Not holding my breath.

Hey Mr.Yet., I've been on both sides of the fence on this issue and imo and experience with giving and receiving, you are very wrong and missing out on such blessings not only in fellowship but in abundance..

2 Cor.9:7 Let each one give as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart.,not reluctantly or sorrowfully under compulsion for God loves (He takes pleasure in, prizes above other things, and is unwilling to abandon or to do without) a cheerful (joyous, "prompt to do it") giver (whose heart is in his giving).

2 cor. 9:8 And God is able to make all grace (every favor and earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need be self-sufficient (possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation).


It is the spirit of a cheerful giver who gives bountifully. Grace makes you a generous giver. God is able to.... 2 Cor.9:8 it's about realizing right now as we are living on earth how to be a generous giver.

God is showing us right now (presently... every favor and spiritual and earthly blessing., .... ALL grace, every favor.... also in earthly blessing. Abundance so that you may always and under all circumstance .... having all sufficiency able to discern His grace and our ability to give freely.

Giving is a joy not a drudge. People under grace LOVE to give and give and give. we are ABLE right now to give. He is enabling us continually.

He loves a cheerful giver because we are so happy to give. (He loves us to be happy to give). He gives us grace. Being rich doesn't make someone happy. It's the giving that makes us joyful., it's the learning how to give as we have been freely given.

Read 2 Cor. 8:9 For you are becoming progressively acquainted with and recognizing more strongly and clearly the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ (His gracious generosity, His undeserved favor and spiritual blessing) (in) that though He was (so very) rich, yet for your sakes He became (so very) poor, in order that by His poverty you might become enriched (abundantly supplied)

Joseph had nothing in the slave market, he stood there naked no earthy power.. but God took care of Him. When at first we have nothing He builds His children up. Going through the process of learning to give and be a blessing. It's by living in grace that we are free to give of what He blesses us with.. If we don't believe in His love and grace to supply us., we will supply for ourselves and never know how to freely receive or freely give.

His ways are not our ways at first. His ways go beyond human reason. Don't try and reason out grace., you can't. We observe Him and follow His lead.

Because a good Bible teacher is trying to show you how God blesses the giver, it is not a conspiracy to get your money and what little you have. They are trying to share with you the grace that shows you how to be a cheerful giver. Knowing your sufficiency comes from God, not yourself.

I

 

[Mitspa]

Yet said nothing about "not giving" but was speaking about a false religious structure and false doctrine designed to make merchandise of Gods people.

 

[ladylynn]

Yet said nothing about "not giving" but was speaking about a false religious structure and false doctrine designed to make merchandise of Gods people.

I know what Yet speaks of and what he often speaks of when it comes to the church and especially when it comes to money and the church and pastors. I've been here since 2013 so I am aware of Yet's opinion on these subjects. His answer to my post was this....

Originally Posted by Yet

Actually satan is very happy that people 'go to church'. They are robbed by the lie of the tithe. At best, being under the traditions of men that makes void the word of God, at worse being placed under a fake law that brings a curse on them. See Galatians. And they are confined to a pew with duct tape over their mouths for the most part while one exalted man with the forbidden title (see Matt.23) does the boring sermon every sunday morning.
I'm going to say don't check out 1Cor.12 and Epecians 4 and Romans 12 to see a biblical gathering. Because if I tell you to check it out you won't. Reverse psychology. Hope it works. Not holding my breath.

 

[Mitspa]

I know what Yet speaks of and what he often speaks of when it comes to the church and especially when it comes to money and the church and pastors. I've been here since 2013 so I am aware of Yet's opinion on these subjects. His answer to my post was this....

Originally Posted by Yet

Actually satan is very happy that people 'go to church'. They are robbed by the lie of the tithe. At best, being under the traditions of men that makes void the word of God, at worse being placed under a fake law that brings a curse on them. See Galatians. And they are confined to a pew with duct tape over their mouths for the most part while one exalted man with the forbidden title (see Matt.23) does the boring sermon every sunday morning.
I'm going to say don't check out 1Cor.12 and Epecians 4 and Romans 12 to see a biblical gathering. Because if I tell you to check it out you won't. Reverse psychology. Hope it works. Not holding my breath.

Ok ..so where does Yet say not to give as the bible tells us to do? The idea that he needs someone to explain giving to him? ..is just a straw-man, because folks cant debate his points on false religious structure.

 

[ladylynn]

Ok ..so where does Yet say not to give as the bible tells us to do? The idea that he needs someone to explain giving to him? ..is just a straw-man, because folks cant debate his points on false religious structure.

If I was a young believer....and even a not so young believer and just read about Yet's ideas on church I'd steer clear of any of those places. I'm not interested in straw-man debates Mitzpa, Just responding to Yet's post to me., and his challenge to me. I don't think he is so meek he needs you to defend him from little ol me.

 

[Mitspa]

If I was a young believer....and even a not so young believer and just read about Yet's ideas on church I'd steer clear of any of those places. I'm not interested in straw-man debates Mitzpa, Just responding to Yet's post to me., and his challenge to me. I don't think he is so meek he needs you to defend him from little ol me.

lol ...no he don't need me. It does seem that anytime the fleecing of the folk is mentioned, that folks like to act as if others don't understand the scriptures in regard to giving. I think the point that should be discussed is to what are we supposed to give? Any young believer needs to know that they are not under some bondage to give to support some preacher buying a new Car or some church to build a new crystal temple. So let the conversation be done in a honest way and we will protect and help the new believer as well

 

[Yet]

Solomon represents a great sin of Israel; he led Israel into ruin. Not a fine example for advocating the pastor-as-king rut the church is stuck in.

And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee. Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. 1 Samuel 8:7-9​

Actually that spoke of Saul...however....the whole deal about wanting a king in control was not pleasing to God. God wanted to be their King.,Disaster after disaster hit with the Kings.Was not His plan but man's.
Today is the same. The whole deal is about wanting a single salaried senior 'pastor' in control is not Pleasing to God. Jesus wants to be our King. The body of Christ is impotent, that's a disaster not to mention health and financial pits. Is not His plan.

 

[ukok102nak]

I know what Yet speaks of and what he often speaks of when it comes to the church and especially when it comes to money and the church and pastors. I've been here since 2013 so I am aware of Yet's opinion on these subjects. His answer to my post was this....

Originally Posted by Yet

Actually satan is very happy that people 'go to church'. They are robbed by the lie of the tithe. At best, being under the traditions of men that makes void the word of God, at worse being placed under a fake law that brings a curse on them. See Galatians. And they are confined to a pew with duct tape over their mouths for the most part while one exalted man with the forbidden title (see Matt.23) does the boring sermon every sunday morning.
I'm going to say don't check out 1Cor.12 and Epecians 4 and Romans 12 to see a biblical gathering. Because if I tell you to check it out you won't. Reverse psychology. Hope it works. Not holding my breath.

:hmm: we've heard that thoughts before and we never realise that someone here like our brethren our brother Yet will say something like we've heard from :rofl:

:think: for something like that was been said by :rofl:
we thought he was just making fun of us because for a joker like him everything
is so hard to understand if he was jyst kudding a side or even lying to us
in order to make us not to be troubled all the time we are facing a situation beyond human imagination . ...

:dontknow: how to explain this but somehow humans were capable of something unexplainable
if some of those things beyond human imagination is not attainable
by all humans in this reality . ...
: : that is if they follow the rules
above all else from
which (what) is written
:read:
Hebrews: 4. 13. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

:ty:


God bless us all always

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Actually that spoke of Saul...however....the whole deal about wanting a king in control was not pleasing to God. God wanted to be their King.,Disaster after disaster hit with the Kings.Was not His plan but man's.
Today is the same. The whole deal is about wanting a single salaried senior 'pastor' in control is not Pleasing to God. Jesus wants to be our King. The body of Christ is impotent, that's a disaster not to mention health and financial pits. Is not His plan.

That was spoken before Saul. Israel insisting on having an earthly king was their wickedness.

 

[ladylynn]

lol ...no he don't need me. It does seem that anytime the fleecing of the folk is mentioned, that folks like to act as if others don't understand the scriptures in regard to giving. I think the point that should be discussed is to what are we supposed to give? Any young believer needs to know that they are not under some bondage to give to support some preacher buying a new Car or some church to build a new crystal temple. So let the conversation be done in a honest way and we will protect and help the new believer as well

I would not have a conversation where I added anything but honesty Mitzpa. No where do I support a doctrine that puts anyone under bondage. But that doesn't mean I agree with a lot of Yet's anti pastor support. And I don't "like to act like others don't understand the scriptures in regards to giving"., many don't. I'm not acting. For instance, the tithe.

For many years our family tithed and were not blessed for it. We gave out of a compulsion and out of being under the old testament law. We gave and were not happy giving. We were confused as to why our needs were not met and got mad and envied other believers. If we can't give with a cheerful heart we should not give at all since it will not be counted for anything. God doesn't need our money.

Now, years later we believe in giving the way Abraham gave under grace before the law. And the giving is about showing God that we trust Him to provide for us and it flows from Him to us and from us to others. It's a totally new concept for us but it truly is a blessing. God blesses our 10% and blesses the rest as well.

God gave us His best when He gave us Jesus. Money is not something God is lacking to give us. He owns it all and gives us the ability to make wealth and to bless others with it too. He doesn't with hold benefits from us. He has showered us with blessings sometimes in the form of money sometimes in other ways. He is pleased when we look to Him for all we have and not our ability. So tithing is a way to show Him we trust Him to give us wealth because Jesus is alive. We know that under grace we have all things pertaining to live and godliness. So giving and serving is a joy., not a chore.

The Holy Communion is about proclaiming Christ's death till He comes back. For me the tithe is proclaiming He lives today. He is an ever help in time of need. He is able to be trusted to provide for us and what better way for us to show this but by giving our first fruits to His work? And then He blesses the rest.

I won't allow man's selfishness take the blessing God promises away from us. If some are 'fleecing the flock' that is not going to stop us from blessing God's work with our substance. Blessing His church and those who He has given to us to guide and teach and pastor the flock. Find a good church and invest in the area you live in. Grow where your planted. Invest God's provisions in those areas He has put you in.
Nothing foolish about that. Nothing legalistic about that.

I also hope any new believers will not be afraid to be a blessing to others when God has blessed them. Don't hold money or earthly things with a tight fist., Be a family that allows the blessings to flow through you and yours and not allow the waters grow stale and stagnant. Flowing water stays fresh and continues. Blessed to be a blessing.

 

[Yet]

If I was a young believer....and even a not so young believer and just read about Yet's ideas on church I'd steer clear of any of those places. I'm not interested in straw-man debates Mitzpa, Just responding to Yet's post to me., and his challenge to me. I don't think he is so meek he needs you to defend him from little ol me.

Someone said its better to go to a bad church than no church at all.
You are worried about a new believer. Now we have something in common.

Jesus came to deliver the poor from the apostate religious system they were burdened under. The religious leaders had twisted scripture and added tons of their own man made laws through the Talmud putting the unsuspecting, unwashed masses into satanic bondage. Note: who did Jesus get into rip roaring fights with? The drunks, the whores, the thieves, the adulterers, the murderers, the liberals(smile), or the holier than thou church leaders? You call it.

And yes, I do my best to steer anyone away from churchianity so they won't come under financial bondage by the false tithe. So they don't live in depression because they are not allowed to use the gifts and functions as they develope, that God has deposited in them, but every blue moon now and then by permission given to them by the exalted one.

Thats not 'church' according to the bible. So how can it hurt a new believer that misses out on all the heresy, not to mention ...pain?

Jesus saved me with no 'church' around to gum it up. We were out winning souls right and left for six months before we finally gave in to everybody's admonition 'you gotta go to church and pay your tithes'.
So we did. We went down hill from there. Sweating bullets trying to pay bills and eat. Nickle and dime existence but the pastor at least was living 'fat'. He told us that one time to put us down.

Gave up our street ministry of feeding the homeless. No money. Had to pay our tithes. A powerful presence of God on the street. Never felt that in 'church'....not like that anyway.

Will not bore you with our life of poverty..25 years worth. Then one day God showed me that tithing was not of Him....it was a lie the church picked up on in 777ad, copying the catholic whore on it.

Ever since, God has been blessing us exceedingly when we got out from underneath the curse of the law. See: Galatians.

The first thing you get accused of is 'you're stingy. You don't like to give!'
Whenever a person does 2 things, sell out to Christ first, you'll get your tail kicked by Christians, and rejected. The second is, when you break free from religious lies, God will start blessing you and yes...you'll get your tail kicked by Christians and the rejection gets worse.

At risk at my right hand finding out what my left hand is giving....here we go. God has directed me many times by his still small voice to give to the poor. I'll not itemize it all for you.
God told us one time to give everything away that we owned and follow him. So we did.

God spoke to us a few years ago to take 35 k of my pension and make a gospel movie. So we did. We give away copies for free. No charge, like the merchandisers do.

God worked out my retirement beautifully. We are debt free. And blessed to the gills. I don't tithe and I don't give His money to enemies of the cross behind the Grecian pulpits. Those that refuse to abide by His word.

I now offer to minister for free in word and song/guitar. No takers. No invitations. I wonder why? I dontbwantbmoney. Never have. That makes me an oddity, a cult, a heretic according to the 'church'.

I preached revivals years ago that were of great success. I waited 19 years before God sent me forth. The anointing of God and signs and wonders followed. The pastors kicked me out. And that's when I was tithing and looking up to pastors with respect. God blessed me because of my 100 percent surrender to Him. He'd straighten out my theology later.
The pastors were jealous. Two years of revivals then it was done. God told me to stay with my secular job and He would show me why later on.

See: which pastor. A little bit of 'my world'. No cry baby here. But rather thankful to God for pulling me out of Babylon.

No you're wrong what you're thinking. I was not headstrong. I always esteemed the pastors with high regard. I was a submitted mouse.......to my families spiritual destruction. 'False teachers subverting whole houses'. God wasn't lying about that one.

Oh I could keep writing for hours.

 

[Mitspa]

I would not have a conversation where I added anything but honesty Mitzpa. No where do I support a doctrine that puts anyone under bondage. But that doesn't mean I agree with a lot of Yet's anti pastor support. And I don't "like to act like others don't understand the scriptures in regards to giving"., many don't. I'm not acting. For instance, the tithe.

For many years our family tithed and were not blessed for it. We gave out of a compulsion and out of being under the old testament law. We gave and were not happy giving. We were confused as to why our needs were not met and got mad and envied other believers. If we can't give with a cheerful heart we should not give at all since it will not be counted for anything. God doesn't need our money.

Now, years later we believe in giving the way Abraham gave under grace before the law. And the giving is about showing God that we trust Him to provide for us and it flows from Him to us and from us to others. It's a totally new concept for us but it truly is a blessing. God blesses our 10% and blesses the rest as well.

God gave us His best when He gave us Jesus. Money is not something God is lacking to give us. He owns it all and gives us the ability to make wealth and to bless others with it too. He doesn't with hold benefits from us. He has showered us with blessings sometimes in the form of money sometimes in other ways. He is pleased when we look to Him for all we have and not our ability. So tithing is a way to show Him we trust Him to give us wealth because Jesus is alive. We know that under grace we have all things pertaining to live and godliness. So giving and serving is a joy., not a chore.

The Holy Communion is about proclaiming Christ's death till He comes back. For me the tithe is proclaiming He lives today. He is an ever help in time of need. He is able to be trusted to provide for us and what better way for us to show this but by giving our first fruits to His work? And then He blesses the rest.

I won't allow man's selfishness take the blessing God promises away from us. If some are 'fleecing the flock' that is not going to stop us from blessing God's work with our substance. Blessing His church and those who He has given to us to guide and teach and pastor the flock. Find a good church and invest in the area you live in. Grow where your planted. Invest God's provisions in those areas He has put you in.
Nothing foolish about that. Nothing legalistic about that.

I also hope any new believers will not be afraid to be a blessing to others when God has blessed them. Don't hold money or earthly things with a tight fist., Be a family that allows the blessings to flow through you and yours and not allow the waters grow stale and stagnant. Flowing water stays fresh and continues. Blessed to be a blessing.

The fact is that you would be attacked for saying these very things in the religious structure that has been built upon false doctrine. I would also add that's Gods first concern for new believers has very little to do with them giving money to preachers although many make try to make it so.

 

[iwant2serve]

Can we get back to the topic in the OP?

 

[ladylynn]

Someone said its better to go to a bad church than no church at all.
You are worried about a new believer. Now we have something in common.

Jesus came to deliver the poor from the apostate religious system they were burdened under. The religious leaders had twisted scripture and added tons of their own man made laws through the Talmud putting the unsuspecting, unwashed masses into satanic bondage. Note: who did Jesus get into rip roaring fights with? The drunks, the whores, the thieves, the adulterers, the murderers, the liberals(smile), or the holier than thou church leaders? You call it.

And yes, I do my best to steer anyone away from churchianity so they won't come under financial bondage by the false tithe. So they don't live in depression because they are not allowed to use the gifts and functions as they develope, that God has deposited in them, but every blue moon now and then by permission given to them by the exalted one.

Thats not 'church' according to the bible. So how can it hurt a new believer that misses out on all the heresy, not to mention ...pain?

Jesus saved me with no 'church' around to gum it up. We were out winning souls right and left for six months before we finally gave in to everybody's admonition 'you gotta go to church and pay your tithes'.
So we did. We went down hill from there. Sweating bullets trying to pay bills and eat. Nickle and dime existence but the pastor at least was living 'fat'. He told us that one time to put us down.

Gave up our street ministry of feeding the homeless. No money. Had to pay our tithes. A powerful presence of God on the street. Never felt that in 'church'....not like that anyway.

Will not bore you with our life of poverty..25 years worth. Then one day God showed me that tithing was not of Him....it was a lie the church picked up on in 777ad, copying the catholic whore on it.

Ever since, God has been blessing us exceedingly when we got out from underneath the curse of the law. See: Galatians.

The first thing you get accused of is 'you're stingy. You don't like to give!'
Whenever a person does 2 things, sell out to Christ first, you'll get your tail kicked by Christians, and rejected. The second is, when you break free from religious lies, God will start blessing you and yes...you'll get your tail kicked by Christians and the rejection gets worse.

At risk at my right hand finding out what my left hand is giving....here we go. God has directed me many times by his still small voice to give to the poor. I'll not itemize it all for you.
God told us one time to give everything away that we owned and follow him. So we did.

God spoke to us a few years ago to take 35 k of my pension and make a gospel movie. So we did. We give away copies for free. No charge, like the merchandisers do.

God worked out my retirement beautifully. We are debt free. And blessed to the gills. I don't tithe and I don't give His money to enemies of the cross behind the Grecian pulpits. Those that refuse to abide by His word.

I now offer to minister for free in word and song/guitar. No takers. No invitations. I wonder why? I dontbwantbmoney. Never have. That makes me an oddity, a cult, a heretic according to the 'church'.

I preached revivals years ago that were of great success. I waited 19 years before God sent me forth. The anointing of God and signs and wonders followed. The pastors kicked me out. And that's when I was tithing and looking up to pastors with respect. God blessed me because of my 100 percent surrender to Him. He'd straighten out my theology later.
The pastors were jealous. Two years of revivals then it was done. God told me to stay with my secular job and He would show me why later on.

See: which pastor. A little bit of 'my world'. No cry baby here. But rather thankful to God for pulling me out of Babylon.

No you're wrong what you're thinking. I was not headstrong. I always esteemed the pastors with high regard. I was a submitted mouse.......to my families spiritual destruction. 'False teachers subverting whole houses'. God wasn't lying about that one.

Oh I could keep writing for hours.

You and yours had a horrible experience with the organized church no doubt about it. And your misery lasted much longer than most I think. So it's understandable why you post the way you do about the organized church. And it also sounds like you have a real ministry of your own and decided to do something about what happened to you and yours.

Probably the reason you don't get many 'calls' to preach in churches is because of your obvious 'annoyance' with the organized church model. (they are probably not blind to it) But it looks to me (and this is only my opinion) that you have to give place to the way others have ministered through the organized church just as you should be given place for your ministry and contribution.

You should check out Sparkman's thread on the need for church . (forgot the actual title) He has some very good things to share. It's hard for me to admit because of my support of the local church that I have been looking for a church for a while. There are a few personal reasons why it is difficult for me to get to church so I do understand why getting involved in church is not so simple. We all have 'issues'

So actually Yet., you have gone far and above most regular church going people ever have in personal ministry. I've been a member and involved that way for years but nothing like you have done. But I can't agree with going against the church model where families and individuals come together in a building and worship together as a family. Nor am I against the way you minister Yet, except that you miss fellowship with other believers and all that goes with it. There are wonderful Christians out there in churches with a servants heart who do the church thing right. I think your way and the organized church both work. It's just too bad both can't work together.

 

[ladylynn]

Can we get back to the topic in the OP?

IMO, this is about the topic your brought up. There are many reasons people don't support pastors and their churches. Maybe if it can be discussed, there would be less of an issue about it??

 

[ladylynn]

The fact is that you would be attacked for saying these very things in the religious structure that has been built upon false doctrine. I would also add that's Gods first concern for new believers has very little to do with them giving money to preachers although many make try to make it so.

Giving IS important. We love Him because He first loved us. So He is our model in giving. So being part of a church body with pastors and teachers and evangelists supported IS important for young and older believers alike. As far as God's first concern goes., I wouldn't venture to say for a second but it must have something to do with being like Jesus.

 

[Mitspa]

Giving IS important. We love Him because He first loved us. So He is our model in giving. So being part of a church body with pastors and teachers and evangelists supported IS important for young and older believers alike. As far as God's first concern goes., I wouldn't venture to say for a second but it must have something to do with being like Jesus.

"He is our model" Yes... He never took a dime from anyone... How can a new believer learn to be like Jesus when they see the greed of those that claim to represent Him?
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 ¶ And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you:

 

[ladylynn]

"He is our model" Yes... He never took a dime from anyone... How can a new believer learn to be like Jesus when they see the greed of those that claim to represent Him?
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 ¶ And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you:

??? Didn't say people are our model Mitzpa., Jesus is our model and we learn to give freely because He gave freely. We are told to Look to Jesus., the Author and Finisher of our faith.

Those people you are talking about have nothing to do with it so there is no point in mentioning them.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Old Testament... Now we have only One King and we are all a royal priesthood ...

missing the point

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

As long as it isn't Donald Trump or Ted Cruz...then you are free to curse them with reckless abandon. Sorry.... but I just couldn't resist pointing out the irony of her posts in this thread in comparison to the ones in the news forum.

this thread is about -good- leaders...