How do we look at this "Endure to the End and be Saved" business?

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL
I knew you did not know that verse.

Read it.
Get back to me.

what verse?? about paul not being able to do anything in the flesh in romans 7?? or how about galations 5 where paul states the flesh wars against the spirit so you can not do what you want to do?

or how about crucify the flesh.. or many other verses that speak on the flesh, and how it must be destroyed..



I knew you would not know what I was talking about.

 

[popeye]

Hard to educate folks from my phone.

Lol

Lets see if there is any Berean in them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^

As if no saints do those things.


Oh,ok,no REAL SAINT.

Well guess what? We are now in the realm of a cult.

We are down to 2classes. Infallible SINLESS SAINTS,and heathens.

well jesus hung out with drunks and prostitutes. so ask him

 

[popeye]

what verse?? about paul not being able to do anything in the flesh in romans 7?? or how about galations 5 where paul states the flesh wars against the spirit so you can not do what you want to do?

or how about crucify the flesh.. or many other verses that speak on the flesh, and how it must be destroyed..

I will look it up for you later.

Will also note your indifference at looking it up.

I thought ya'll were the big bible scholars and I was some novice?
Hmmm


[

 

[popeye]

well jesus hung out with drunks and prostitutes. so ask him

That is outta whack

I am addressing the grey area osas creates.

Your example has no FOLLOWER OF JESUS indulging is fleshly behavior

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hard to educate folks from my phone.

Lol

Lets see if there is any Berean in them.

Your wish is my command.

In the name of our Lord Jesus, [when] you are assembled, and my spirit, together with the power of our Lord Jesus, [I have decided] to hand over such a person to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 5:4-5​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your wish is my command.

In the name of our Lord Jesus, [when] you are assembled, and my spirit, together with the power of our Lord Jesus, [I have decided] to hand over such a person to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 5:4-5​

lol..

So this is wrong?

Should we not do this?

if the flesh is not destroyed, the sin will not stop.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is outta whack

I am addressing the grey area osas creates.

Your example has no FOLLOWER OF JESUS indulging is fleshly behavior

No, Your addressing your misconceived gray areas, your not addressing anything that I believe.

That is a huge difference.

if you did not ask such a strawman question, you would not have gotten such an answer.
if you want to excuse your sin, by judging other people. thats on you.

leave me out of it, ok??

 

[thecreationtutor]

Sounds like you got it all figured out sir.

Don't let me get in the way.

Scripture is pretty clear that "free will" has it's limitations and that having a biblical definition of that is pretty important

Does anyone ever really ask what do i define "free will" as when they say it? rhetoric is important

 

[thecreationtutor]

What about - all the verses that say hmmm - God put it in their heart, it was the Lords will to put him to death, etc or that
he uses all things for the Good of those who love Him. Or that He chose jacob over Esau, or that we can't merit anything from God, but somehow we merit enough to choose Him. Or that God saw something good in us in the future, so he decided to choose us.


It's all about Jesus - not us. The Father lives for the Glory of the Son. The Holy Spirit lives for the Glory of the Son - everything in this life is about Jesus Christ and His Glory.

That Jesus would be Elevated, That all would confess, that those who spurn the Son will not see life

To see myself as nothing, less than nothing - and somehow God had mercy on me and revealed His Son - His joy

 

[FreeNChrist]

or how about crucify the flesh.. or many other verses that speak on the flesh, and how it must be destroyed..

I've tried that...but I always ended up with one free hand....

 

[Grace777x70]

Me too!...the old man has been crucified with Christ...the flesh..that pesky thing is still here..



Galatians 5:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Have crucified = past tense..we just need to think of us as dead to the sin in the flesh...and keep our eyes on who we are in Christ now in the spirit..

Galatians 5:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

I've tried that...but I always ended up with one free hand....

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Me too!...the old man has been crucified with Christ...the flesh..that pesky thing is still here..



Galatians 5:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Have crucified = past tense..we just need to think of us as dead to the sin in the flesh...and keep our eyes on who we are in Christ now in the spirit..

We never crucified the flesh. That was the work of GOD when we were baptized into Christ's death. So Galatians 5:24 cannot mean what you claim it says. It says that we crucify the flesh with its passions and desires. The aorist in this case is active indefinite. It is an indefinite fact, not a past action.

 

[Grace777x70]

ἐσταύρωσαν

Tense: Aorist
Mood: Indicative
Voice: Active

who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh

Crucified the flesh ([FONT="Gentium" !important][I]tēn sarka estaurōsan[/I][/FONT][/COLOR]). [/SIZE][SIZE=4]Definite event, first aorist active indicative of [/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=maroon][FONT="Gentium" !important][I]stauroō[/I][/FONT][/COLOR] [/SIZE]as in [URL="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Gal+2%3A19"]Galatians 2:19[/URL] (mystical union with Christ).
Word Pictures in the New Testament.

I know this conflicts with your beliefs....but the bible often conflicts with us..it's the nature of the beast.....it happens to me all the time!

We never crucified the flesh. That was the work of GOD when we were baptized into Christ's death. So Galatians 5:24 cannot mean what you claim it says. It says that we crucify the flesh with its passions and desires. The aorist in this case is active indefinite. It is an indefinite fact, not a past action.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

ἐσταύρωσαν

Tense: Aorist
Mood: Indicative
Voice: Active

who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh

Crucified the flesh ([FONT="Gentium" !important][I]tēn sarka estaurōsan[/I][/FONT][/COLOR]). [/SIZE][SIZE=4]Definite event, first aorist active indicative of [/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=maroon][FONT="Gentium" !important][I]stauroō[/I][/FONT][/COLOR] [/SIZE]as in [URL="http://www.crossbooks.com/verse.asp?ref=Gal+2%3A19"]Galatians 2:19[/URL] (mystical union with Christ).
Word Pictures in the New Testament.

I know this conflicts with your beliefs....but the bible often conflicts with us..it's the nature of the beast.....it happens to me all the time!

The Greek aorist is not English simple past. It is more like the English present. This verse is virtually a proof text of that. "The aorist is, strictly speaking, timeless."

Now •those of •Christ Jesus crucify the flesh together with its •passions, and •lusts. (CLV) Ga 5:24​

The Greek and English Indefinite

 

[Grace777x70]

Colossians 3:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.

consider = aorist = past again.

Romans 6:11-14 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. consider yourselves to be dead = present tense here..

we are to consider continuously that we are dead to sin which is in the flesh (which flesh we are to consider as has been crucified )

We have been circumcised from the flesh with the circumcision of the flesh in Christ which is where Paul gets the has been crucified in Gal 5:24.

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

The Greek aorist is not English simple past. It is more like the English present. This verse is virtually a proof text of that. "The aorist is, strictly speaking, timeless."

Now •those of •Christ Jesus crucify the flesh together with its •passions, and •lusts. (CLV) Ga 5:24​

The Greek and English Indefinite

 

[popeye]

Your wish is my command.

In the name of our Lord Jesus, [when] you are assembled, and my spirit, together with the power of our Lord Jesus, [I have decided] to hand over such a person to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 5:4-5​

Thanks

And we will note "saved" as I made note of earlier.

I thought God just did it and that was that.

Hmmmm

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Thanks

And we will note "saved" as I made note of earlier.

I thought God just did it and that was that.

Hmmmm

My eyes have been opened to the destructive influence Calvin's pernicious doctrine has had on Christendom. I never imagined...

 

[popeye]

They can't have it both ways.



Osas you can take the mark and get a pass.

Osas a true believer will not take the mark

Created grey area, if one takes the mark,gets a pass,there is no purpose.
Anyone can take it and repent later.

 

[popeye]

Foxes book of martyrs.

They would not recant FOR CONSCIENCE SAKE.
THEY DIED FOR CONSCIOUS SAKE.

Osas you can take the mark,God will wink at it.