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J
Depression and anxiety is a relentless sense of worry and fear, when in fact there is nothing to worry about. I would handle depression and anxiety a certain way when I was NOT a believer, but now I handle it a similar way, just now I focus on God instead of focusing on myself. What I mean is, when you experience fear and worry, or more specifically depression and anxiety, that's the product of putting your mind into something or even someone else to the point you allow absolutely anything to appear to be true, its like your thoughts enter and focus on something external that give you an excuse to believe anything, including what could very well be a lie, the lie that tells you should be afraid right now and worrying about this specific thing that is the cause of your anxiety and depression. This is where I found that the first commandment to be the most powerful. When you break that first commandment, when you're not focused on God or His ways you can easily find your mind within things that aren't Him and due to that, you are vulnerable and susceptible to form some bizarre conclusions that can result in some adverse effects on yourself. This act though, this act of choosing to focus on these external things is you thinking that you know what's best for yourself, when in fact you're guiding yourself into traps.
But yeah, I would do this as a non believer to, fight tooth and nail to stop caring and focusing on how I'm performing in a situation and in the eyes of my peers or in the eyes of my own judgement. The problem with that is this...YOUR judgement means nothing, its flawed when you compare it to the perfection that is God's judgement. You're even worse off if you can beat depression and anxiety while holding the perspective of the world. That's how you get swept away. Also as a non believer when you do this without focusing on God you miss out on conviction. Which leads me to my personal problem of identifying conviction of condemnation....anxiety and depression is condemnation, at least I think it is. It's the price you pay when you think you know whats best for yourself in the field of thought. But conviction can feel like condemnation, because who enjoys being in the wrong? Your pride will compete with the conviction, because your pride doesn't want to forfeit. And if you don't let go of that pride, that pride will eventually turn on you to the point it will cause you to attack your own self worth which leads only down hill and further more anxiety and depression. Which leads me to another concept found in Holy Scripture...Proverbs 12:1 Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but whoever hates correction is stupid. To be convicted is a blessing because it's the beginning of correction, to be condemned is absolute in nature, as is DEPRESSION and ANXIETY. Depression and anxiety do in fact lead to self destruction/suicide because the whole time you're following a path that leads to the condemnation of your self worth. The reason you feel so bad is because you're essentially following a lie and an attack on your over all self worth.
That's a mouthful...
But yeah, I would do this as a non believer to, fight tooth and nail to stop caring and focusing on how I'm performing in a situation and in the eyes of my peers or in the eyes of my own judgement. The problem with that is this...YOUR judgement means nothing, its flawed when you compare it to the perfection that is God's judgement. You're even worse off if you can beat depression and anxiety while holding the perspective of the world. That's how you get swept away. Also as a non believer when you do this without focusing on God you miss out on conviction. Which leads me to my personal problem of identifying conviction of condemnation....anxiety and depression is condemnation, at least I think it is. It's the price you pay when you think you know whats best for yourself in the field of thought. But conviction can feel like condemnation, because who enjoys being in the wrong? Your pride will compete with the conviction, because your pride doesn't want to forfeit. And if you don't let go of that pride, that pride will eventually turn on you to the point it will cause you to attack your own self worth which leads only down hill and further more anxiety and depression. Which leads me to another concept found in Holy Scripture...Proverbs 12:1 Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but whoever hates correction is stupid. To be convicted is a blessing because it's the beginning of correction, to be condemned is absolute in nature, as is DEPRESSION and ANXIETY. Depression and anxiety do in fact lead to self destruction/suicide because the whole time you're following a path that leads to the condemnation of your self worth. The reason you feel so bad is because you're essentially following a lie and an attack on your over all self worth.
That's a mouthful...
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I don't want to necessarily diminish on your experience as I do believe in the power of prayer. However, "deliverance ministries", "God encounters", and "inner healing weeks" are often harmful. I have heard stories of people being driven to a place they cannot leave for a week and shown very graphic films, forced exposure to traumatic events mirroring their own, and other very bizarre and harmful practices to emotionally alter ones state of mind to produce some sort of "God encounter".
As far as deliverance ministries go, pretty much all of them are steeped in false doctrine and extremely dangerous theology. All claims made by anyone claiming to heal or raise the dead etc are all unsubstantiated claims. Many thousands have died after being "healed" because they have refused medical attention for terminal illnesses.
Again, stick to sound doctrine and prayer as instructed by scripture. Seek medical attention if necessary.
God does work providentially through medical means.
As far as deliverance ministries go, pretty much all of them are steeped in false doctrine and extremely dangerous theology. All claims made by anyone claiming to heal or raise the dead etc are all unsubstantiated claims. Many thousands have died after being "healed" because they have refused medical attention for terminal illnesses.
Again, stick to sound doctrine and prayer as instructed by scripture. Seek medical attention if necessary.
God does work providentially through medical means.
J
As for "healing" in relation to this topic, I feel really confident that it's found in His word and in study. Although I do believe in instantaneous healing, I don't think God has limits, but in most cases, there's nothing to be learned and then be shared when you're healed instantaneously in relation to this subject. That's the problem with pills, in my personal opinion anyways.
All that scripture we read about putting dirt on the head, tearing of clothes,and putting on sackcloth...there's something to be learned in the trenches, when you're down. To understand true humility, the irony in humility- the fact it's defined as malleable, but at the same time it feels hard as steel since it can't be broken. I feel like understanding humility is the fundamental understanding to many things, if not everything God/Jesus tried to teach us. Plays a huge part in this very topic. With humility, I don't think one would fall deep into anxiety and depression. Anxiety and depression focus on your self worth, they attack a broad aspect of yourself to the point you want to end yourself because you feel you're worth nothing, but with humility those attacks don't work because you're okay with being the least. These teachings man, these words that God and Jesus gave us, God is something else. Truly great and deserving of all praises.
All that scripture we read about putting dirt on the head, tearing of clothes,and putting on sackcloth...there's something to be learned in the trenches, when you're down. To understand true humility, the irony in humility- the fact it's defined as malleable, but at the same time it feels hard as steel since it can't be broken. I feel like understanding humility is the fundamental understanding to many things, if not everything God/Jesus tried to teach us. Plays a huge part in this very topic. With humility, I don't think one would fall deep into anxiety and depression. Anxiety and depression focus on your self worth, they attack a broad aspect of yourself to the point you want to end yourself because you feel you're worth nothing, but with humility those attacks don't work because you're okay with being the least. These teachings man, these words that God and Jesus gave us, God is something else. Truly great and deserving of all praises.
J
I just want to expand on this so there's no confusion, but when anxiety and depression are at work, you're tearing away at yourself. When you're humble and the momentum to embrace anxiety and depression begins, it's cut off before the anxiety and depression get too deep. Because the attack starts on you, but when you're comfortable with being in the trenches, being lowly in nature, that's as far as the anxiety and depression can get. At that point you shrug off any attempt to expand on fear and any accusations against yourself that's delivered by way of depression and anxiety.
1 Peter 5:8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
And just so we know what the source of all this anxiety(worry/fear) and depression(despondency) is really coming from. It's all meant to break you.
1 Peter 5:8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
And just so we know what the source of all this anxiety(worry/fear) and depression(despondency) is really coming from. It's all meant to break you.
C
No we used to have some books from them and went to some meetings of Castellanos and we had this group of Dutch pastors that wanted to implement it, but most of them only took some good stuff and left this whole movement. It was very controlling. The encounters were good though from those churches that are not G12 anymore.
L
Yeah, I live in the real world, and here in the real world, mental health conditions have underlying causes of trauma, emotional trauma, chemical imbalances, etc. We don't just blame it on the devil, say a prayer and go about our merry way. Some folks need a bit more help than that. Thanks for playing though.
Thank you for being honest. Reps for that.
I would caution you about any practice adopted by G12. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. The G12 movement began under the direction of a false prophet named César Castellanos. Their practices are completely unbiblical in almost every sense. I don't want to get much into it on this thread, but, be careful.
I would caution you about any practice adopted by G12. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. The G12 movement began under the direction of a false prophet named César Castellanos. Their practices are completely unbiblical in almost every sense. I don't want to get much into it on this thread, but, be careful.
Forthangel, you wrote: "All claims made by anyone claiming to heal or raise the dead etc are all unsubstantiated claims."
In fact, this past week on cc, a man was prayed for, and he is healed. Just talked to him tonight - 7 days later. He was gloriously healed by the power of God in the name of Jesus.
"All" and "anyone" - you have a file of all the claims ever made of healing? Or you have interviewed every person throughout history who has been healed? Somehow you are able to be in all the places in the earth at one time and know who is claiming to be healed or claiming that God used them to heal? Hm.
In fact, this past week on cc, a man was prayed for, and he is healed. Just talked to him tonight - 7 days later. He was gloriously healed by the power of God in the name of Jesus.
"All" and "anyone" - you have a file of all the claims ever made of healing? Or you have interviewed every person throughout history who has been healed? Somehow you are able to be in all the places in the earth at one time and know who is claiming to be healed or claiming that God used them to heal? Hm.
I understand just fine thanks. Do you even know what these modern "encounters" are? Here is a link to an article about G12 so you can educate yourself before making uneducated assumptions about someone.
Encountering G12 - The Encounter | Apologetics Index
Encountering G12 - The Encounter | Apologetics Index
ForthAngel..thank you for your testimony. IT is basic and to the point. It offers hope, peace and strength because it refocuses all anxiety, depression as being something that all people need to leave at the foot of the cross...surrendering it over to JESUS..who takes our burdens upon Himself. We cannot do this on our own. Those who suffer from anxiety, bipolarism, and more have a Comforter waiting. A fresh infilling and baptism in the Holy Spirit is the only true touch that really fills the dark spaces in one's mind and changes a person to what JESUS would have them be. I cannot emphasize this enough. We need a real deep spiritual connection to the Great Physician instead of supporting the drug section of our local Wal-Mart shopping center. Once our spiritual thirst is taken care of...the extra benefits of having His touch overflows into the rest of our lives. This is a continual flow of sweet spiritual waters, a river that never runs dry where we can always dive into. Satan gives us fears, anxiety and depression. IT does NOT come from GOD...so therefore we do not need to wallow in it or continue to believe "WOA is me...I suffer from being manic depressive and will stay this way for the rest of my life".....another demonic lie! We can, through the Holy Spirit, rise so far above that train of thought.
Miraculous healing in the bible was instant. I'm not saying God doesn't still heal. The miraculous type of healing portrayed in the apostolic era and recorded in scripture is not what we are seeing today. What we see today is something different.
I've done quite a bit of research into it. Still haven't found any substance in any of the claims I've come across. Some are rather convincing and I will neither confirm or deny them. I have found a bunch of charlatans and deaths of terminally ill patients though.
Again, not saying God can't or won't do it. Just not seeing it today. Rather not get into it on this thread. Can make another one if you want to get into this.
I've done quite a bit of research into it. Still haven't found any substance in any of the claims I've come across. Some are rather convincing and I will neither confirm or deny them. I have found a bunch of charlatans and deaths of terminally ill patients though.
Again, not saying God can't or won't do it. Just not seeing it today. Rather not get into it on this thread. Can make another one if you want to get into this.
J
Chemical imbalances in relation to depression are only theories. Unless of course you've found ground breaking evidence inyour lab you'd like to share...sorry for the sarcasm, but are fully aware of what you're talking about?
But even still, for the sake of your stance in this discussion, that's implying every sad person on the planet is effected to this degree. When the truth is- a final conclusion to ones over all state of mind comes from a series of conclusions formed prior. One decision, just one decision to believe a single self deprecating accusation against ones self can lead to an entire case against the individual in his own mind.
If it was really as simple as a lack of serotonin, an imbalance, why aren't these balance correcting pills working and why are biologists turning away from the theory and moved onto nutritional psychology? The study of Nutritional psychology is a direct result of the lack of evidence that's found within the theory of chemical imbalances.
As for the Holy Scripture in relation to this, it claims that the fight is not with the flesh and blood but with principalities (Ephesians 6:12). It implies that we're tempted in nature to behave in certain ways. Tempted to make certain choices/decisions as stated above. Choices that reside within a polarity of good and evil. Doesn't matter what we discover now or 500 years from now, we'll always be susceptible to the temptations ...for example, to steal from your neighbor. Whether it's 400 bc and you want to steal a rake, or its 2016 and you want steal your neighbors awesome leaf blower lol....point is this is the fundamental issue remains. Tempted to think and make decisions that are against what truly is best for us. So that Scripture you're mocking is more accurate than what you chose to place above it.
But even still, for the sake of your stance in this discussion, that's implying every sad person on the planet is effected to this degree. When the truth is- a final conclusion to ones over all state of mind comes from a series of conclusions formed prior. One decision, just one decision to believe a single self deprecating accusation against ones self can lead to an entire case against the individual in his own mind.
If it was really as simple as a lack of serotonin, an imbalance, why aren't these balance correcting pills working and why are biologists turning away from the theory and moved onto nutritional psychology? The study of Nutritional psychology is a direct result of the lack of evidence that's found within the theory of chemical imbalances.
As for the Holy Scripture in relation to this, it claims that the fight is not with the flesh and blood but with principalities (Ephesians 6:12). It implies that we're tempted in nature to behave in certain ways. Tempted to make certain choices/decisions as stated above. Choices that reside within a polarity of good and evil. Doesn't matter what we discover now or 500 years from now, we'll always be susceptible to the temptations ...for example, to steal from your neighbor. Whether it's 400 bc and you want to steal a rake, or its 2016 and you want steal your neighbors awesome leaf blower lol....point is this is the fundamental issue remains. Tempted to think and make decisions that are against what truly is best for us. So that Scripture you're mocking is more accurate than what you chose to place above it.
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C
The ones I've been to, you knew where it was, you could leave if you wanted to, it was teachings about an encounter with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One woman lost her kid and got healed emotionally. And the hugs were great lol. Ah that's a good one too. I remember I wanted to jump out of the window and then I went to James Jordan, Father heart ministry. He and Jack Winter just hugged everyone on the platform, imparting God's love. It was very weird to see but I got healed from stuff and it was just awesome.
Amen..I too have seen many wonderful things happen in meetings where the presence of the Lord was present to heal all manner of things.
Not all healings are instant either....there were some that Jesus had to lay hands on them again to be a full manifestation. Others were told by Jesus to go do something ( like wash your eyes in this pool ) before their healing was manifested. Others just said.. "Let it be unto me as you have spoken..and they came to pass.."
Some get healed by giving heed to the word of God and listening to words of the Lord concerning healing and health.
Proverbs 4:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] My son, give attention to my words; Incline your ear to my sayings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Do not let them depart from your sight; Keep them in the midst of your heart.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For they are life to those who find them And health to all their body..
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Watch over your heart with all diligence, For from it flow the springs of life.
The natural mind of man cannot understand the things of the spirit. God's word has the final say in all things.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Not all healings are instant either....there were some that Jesus had to lay hands on them again to be a full manifestation. Others were told by Jesus to go do something ( like wash your eyes in this pool ) before their healing was manifested. Others just said.. "Let it be unto me as you have spoken..and they came to pass.."
Some get healed by giving heed to the word of God and listening to words of the Lord concerning healing and health.
Proverbs 4:20-23 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] My son, give attention to my words; Incline your ear to my sayings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Do not let them depart from your sight; Keep them in the midst of your heart.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For they are life to those who find them And health to all their body..
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Watch over your heart with all diligence, For from it flow the springs of life.
The natural mind of man cannot understand the things of the spirit. God's word has the final say in all things.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.