The Case of Job

[Depleted]

This is very personal for me. I'd like kind answers, not scolding/holier-than-thou/"no thought put into it, only what someone taught me, and I don't want to think too hard" answers. By the time it's over, I'd like to be a bit less pissed at God answers. Better yet, not pissed at all. Okay?

Every time a believer goes through tough times, someone has to bring up Job as a comfort thing. Like somehow that makes it all better. These are the reasons the Book of Job leaves me cold:

1. Job didn't do anything wrong, yet looked how much he was dumped on, just to prove something between Satan and God? Really? God needed no proving, Satan wasn't going to listen or change, and Job got stuck in the middle of this, as some kind of lesson plan for the future. What's the point?

2. Job was a good man to the end, and yet he was both royally and demonically screwed every which way.

3. Chapters and chapters of how powerful and thorough God is in the creation of the universe and the governing of Satan and yet, told to a guy who already trusted him, but hurt so much he was using pot shards to scratch ulcers while listening to God's story.

4. Everyone quickly points to the end when Job was "restored." His health was fixed, he got more land and a bigger business, kept the wife, and oh yeah, replaced 10 of his dead children with 20 more. Hello? Do you think that's a mighty fine ending, if they were YOUR children taken from you and replaced? Sure he got double what he had before, except for the ones he treasured the most -- his children. They're still all dead and Job has to live with that for the rest of his days on earth. Can God replace loved ones to make the loss better? If you lost all of your children, but gained so much wealth you're officially the richest person on earth. plus you double the number of kids you had, does even that replace the sorrow and loss you have for those kids?

So, how is this book supposed to be comfort and why is it so easily comfortable for those who point to it? If God is dealing with the man he loves the most, exactly what lessons does this give all the rest of us loved less? Duck, in case God wants to show his love? Can't duck!

Honest, I would like a real answer to this. Anyone up to it?

 

[Grace777x70]

There are many things that we don't know about until we get to be with the Lord. I can understand the frustration of the circumstances that life throws at us.

Here are some articles about Job that may help. I like the comments on the bottom of the articles as they are real people asking questions and commenting on things.

Search Results job – Escape to Reality

I know for my own life..this saying has been true for me.. "In order to receive the peace that passes all understanding - we have to give up our right to understand"

God bless you and strengthen you!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It's not a comforting book at all except in the sense that GOD used Job's sufferings to perfect him. As it is written,

Then Job answered and said to the Lord, ​ I know that thou canst do all things, and nothing is impossible with thee. For who is he that hides counsel from thee? or who keeps back his words, and thinks to hide them from thee? and who will tell me what I knew not, great and wonderful things which I understood not? ​ But hear me, O Lord, that I also may speak: and I will ask thee, and do thou teach me. I have heard the report of thee by the ear before; but now mine eye has seen thee. Wherefore I have counted myself vile, and have fainted: and I esteem myself dust and ashes. Job 41:34-42:6​

 

[4enlightment]

It says that Job was blameless not good and which none of us are good. Only God is the only One that can only produces good even if it seemed so wrong to us. According to the laws, that anyone of them that has violated the laws must be cast out; but if they wanted to be redeem, that they must make an offering from their own flock for their sin. But Job has made the sacrifice to use his own flock but not theirs, and so he had disobeyed the laws. But God has known what was in Job's heart that his intentions weren't evil, but His will must be done as the same way that He has done to the Hebrews when Moses had offered his life for the sins of the people.


Exodus 32:32 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.” 34 Now go, lead the people to the place I spoke of, and my angel will go before you. However, when the time comes for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin.”

35 And the Lord struck the people with a plague because of what they did with the calf Aaron had made.

Exodus 4:24 At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it. “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. 26 So the Lord let him alone.


In ancient Near Eastern royal land grant treaties, this type of ritual was done to “seal” the promises made. Through this blood covenant, God was confirming primarily three promises He had made to Abraham: the promise of heirs, of land, and of blessings (Genesis 12:2-3). A blood covenant communicated a self-maledictory oath. The parties involved would walk the path between the slaughtered animals so to say, “May this be done to me if I do not keep my oath.” Jeremiah 34:18-19 also speaks about this type of oath-making.
http://www.gotquestions.org/blood-covenant.html

 

[Depleted]

There are many things that we don't know about until we get to be with the Lord. I can understand the frustration of the circumstances that life throws at us.

Here are some articles about Job that may help. I like the comments on the bottom of the articles as they are real people asking questions and commenting on things.

Search Results job – Escape to Reality

I know for my own life..this saying has been true for me.. "In order to receive the peace that passes all understanding - we have to give up our right to understand"

God bless you and strengthen you!

I found it interesting until I notice it's one guy's opinion on everything.

And, as far as peace and understanding goes, I thought Jesus was that, not how we set our minds. I like thinking. True, it gets me in trouble often enough, but if given a choice between a vague feeling and thinking, thinking is going to win most of the time. God is infinite. He doesn't fall apart from me questioning him. I know some questions cannot be answered while I'm in this finite body. They might not even have answers I can understand in that infinite body of the future, but that doesn't mean give up trying to understand.

As Mom always said, "God gave you a brain. Use it!" (Although, granted, she tended to say that right after I didn't use it. lol)

 

[Depleted]

It's not a comforting book at all except in the sense that GOD used Job's sufferings to perfect him. As it is written,

Then Job answered and said to the Lord, ​ I know that thou canst do all things, and nothing is impossible with thee. For who is he that hides counsel from thee? or who keeps back his words, and thinks to hide them from thee? and who will tell me what I knew not, great and wonderful things which I understood not? ​ But hear me, O Lord, that I also may speak: and I will ask thee, and do thou teach me. I have heard the report of thee by the ear before; but now mine eye has seen thee. Wherefore I have counted myself vile, and have fainted: and I esteem myself dust and ashes. Job 41:34-42:6​

How do you put together two things -- we're dust and ashes AND we're adopted princes and princesses of the King of Kings?

 

[Grace777x70]

The other aspect to factor in is that there is a difference between Job and what Jesus did to come and reveal the Father to us. We have a New Covenant too.....

Of course all opinions expressed are going to be from that one person who is speaking or teaching.

 

[Depleted]

It says that Job was blameless not good and which none of us are good. Only God is the only One that can only produces good even if it seemed so wrong to us. According to the laws, that anyone of them that has violated the laws must be cast out; but if they wanted to be redeem, that they must make an offering from their own flock for their sin. But Job has made the sacrifice to use his own flock but not theirs, and so he had disobeyed the laws. But God has known what was in Job's heart that his intentions weren't evil, but His will must be done as the same way that He has done to the Hebrews when Moses had offered his life for the sins of the people.


Exodus 32:32 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.” 34 Now go, lead the people to the place I spoke of, and my angel will go before you. However, when the time comes for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin.”

35 And the Lord struck the people with a plague because of what they did with the calf Aaron had made.

Exodus 4:24 At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it. “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. 26 So the Lord let him alone.


In ancient Near Eastern royal land grant treaties, this type of ritual was done to “seal” the promises made. Through this blood covenant, God was confirming primarily three promises He had made to Abraham: the promise of heirs, of land, and of blessings (Genesis 12:2-3). A blood covenant communicated a self-maledictory oath. The parties involved would walk the path between the slaughtered animals so to say, “May this be done to me if I do not keep my oath.” Jeremiah 34:18-19 also speaks about this type of oath-making.
http://www.gotquestions.org/blood-covenant.html

This is very personal for me. I'd like kind answers, not scolding/holier-than-thou/"no thought put into it, only what someone taught me, and I don't want to think too hard" answers. By the time it's over, I'd like to be a bit less pissed at God answers. Better yet, not pissed at all. Okay?

Quoting Gotquestions.org tells me you ignored the bolded part, so I ignore you.

 

[coby]

All I learn from it is that Job didn't know how to rebuke the devil and kick him out in Jesus' Name. Never read that book. 2 sentences from some stupid friend of him and I had enough of it.

 

[BeyondET]

I won't speak on Job and I don't know if this would be comforting may not though I look at what God did so more of Gods children can know and be with him in Heaven. God sent his only Son to save us God gave up a Son to save more sons and daughters from our own sinful ways. I know the bible Mentions Jesus lived around 33yrs and died at the cross, placed in the grave for 3 days, then risen back to life, then went back to heaven. In my view it's more complex then that, when a mother or a father looses a child at 5yrs old do to cancer or another reason, do they get the child back when the child would have reach 38yrs no they don't just like Job and his first children's. God knows how this feels too indeed. Surely what I say isn't going to sit well with people but it's my view and my view only, I don't need people agreeing at all its my view of things. I won't fear my thoughts I feel comfortable in my thoughts today. disagree is welcomed or Bash me if any would like too call me names it's ok. I'm cool with it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

it is comforting. Because it lets us know. we all suffer, And not all suffering is based on our sin, or because we deserve it. Many in the church say we suffer because of sin, If we did this, we would not suffer etc etc.. WHich may be true (if you drink get drunk and get severely injured, your suffering is self imposed) but much of our suffering is not based on anything we did.

it comforts a mother who lost a child. A husband who lost a kid, a wife who lost a husband, A family who lost their income when the father got layed of for no reason.

It may not help in all cases like I said, But for many it can be a great comfort

 

[John146]

James 5

7Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

8Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

9Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

10Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

11Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Job is an example for those living in the tribulation period. The tribulation will be the most terrible time ever, those who are suffering through the tribulation should look to Job as an example. The end result will be greater than the beginning.

Job's 42 chapters is likened to the 42 months of great tribulation.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How do you put together two things -- we're dust and ashes AND we're adopted princes and princesses of the King of Kings?

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 2 Corinthians 12:9​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

All I learn from it is that Job didn't know how to rebuke the devil and kick him out in Jesus' Name. Never read that book. 2 sentences from some stupid friend of him and I had enough of it.

One of the best books in the bible. So much truth there.

 

[4enlightment]

it is comforting. Because it lets us know. we all suffer, And not all suffering is based on our sin, or because we deserve it. Many in the church say we suffer because of sin, If we did this, we would not suffer etc etc.. WHich may be true (if you drink get drunk and get severely injured, your suffering is self imposed) but much of our suffering is not based on anything we did.

it comforts a mother who lost a child. A husband who lost a kid, a wife who lost a husband, A family who lost their income when the father got layed of for no reason.

It may not help in all cases like I said, But for many it can be a great comfort

We all has to suffer because we are not perfect. To work our way onto perfection, we must be corrected. If we are perfect, then we doesn't has to go through the purification process. And so there is no way around it, we all has to go through the angel with the flaming sword in order to get back into the garden.

Isaiah 4:4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Hebrews 12:6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”

 

[4enlightment]

That is why it says that we need to be glad when we are been persecuted, because the Lord is preparing us to enter into this kingdom.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Share the same thoughts with most of the comments here. What I've taken away from Job, in a big way, is the bottom line lesson of the book, that faith is absolute trust in the Lord, more faith when we don't understand, that God is much bigger than any of us and sovereign, our place to learn to trust and fear God, regardless anything else.

It's easy to be a fair weather friend, this not the substance of strong faith. This is faith: "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him." Neither is it our place to psychoanalyze God, reply against God, or stuff Him into any box of our very limited understandings. Pride and creature hubris, before Holy God, are most sinful. The lesson of Job goes perfectly with these verses,

Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We all has to suffer because we are not perfect. To work our way onto perfection, we must be corrected. If we are perfect, then we doesn't has to go through the purification process. And so there is no way around it, we all has to go through the angel with the flaming sword in order to get back into the garden.

Isaiah 4:4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Hebrews 12:6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”

You can go through all the suffering you can think of.. You will still not be perfect.. You will still fall short of the glory of God. and need to be justified by faith.

I think Job and Jesus both proof that not all sufferng is because we sinned, or even for our benefit, Sometimes we suffer for the benefit of others. Like the blind men Jesus healed.

 

[psychomom]

This is very personal for me. I'd like kind answers, not scolding/holier-than-thou/"no thought put into it, only what someone taught me, and I don't want to think too hard" answers. By the time it's over, I'd like to be a bit less pissed at God answers. Better yet, not pissed at all. Okay?

Every time a believer goes through tough times, someone has to bring up Job as a comfort thing. Like somehow that makes it all better. These are the reasons the Book of Job leaves me cold:

1. Job didn't do anything wrong, yet looked how much he was dumped on, just to prove something between Satan and God? Really? God needed no proving, Satan wasn't going to listen or change, and Job got stuck in the middle of this, as some kind of lesson plan for the future. What's the point?

2. Job was a good man to the end, and yet he was both royally and demonically screwed every which way.

3. Chapters and chapters of how powerful and thorough God is in the creation of the universe and the governing of Satan and yet, told to a guy who already trusted him, but hurt so much he was using pot shards to scratch ulcers while listening to God's story.

4. Everyone quickly points to the end when Job was "restored." His health was fixed, he got more land and a bigger business, kept the wife, and oh yeah, replaced 10 of his dead children with 20 more. Hello? Do you think that's a mighty fine ending, if they were YOUR children taken from you and replaced? Sure he got double what he had before, except for the ones he treasured the most -- his children. They're still all dead and Job has to live with that for the rest of his days on earth. Can God replace loved ones to make the loss better? If you lost all of your children, but gained so much wealth you're officially the richest person on earth. plus you double the number of kids you had, does even that replace the sorrow and loss you have for those kids?

So, how is this book supposed to be comfort and why is it so easily comfortable for those who point to it? If God is dealing with the man he loves the most, exactly what lessons does this give all the rest of us loved less? Duck, in case God wants to show his love? Can't duck!

Honest, I would like a real answer to this. Anyone up to it?

Lynn, firstly and mostly, i am sorry for what you're going through.
i sorrow with you.

my takeaway from Job now that i'm older is that it's written so God's children may know that in their suffering, their Father is Sovereign. nothing is purposeless even though we sometimes grope in the dark for some kind of meaning.
maybe that sounds like a 'lesson plan for the future', and for that i apologize. i believe i can learn the things Job learned with God's help.

i once heard Tim Keller say expect tears or you'll be crying for two reasons rather than one. (i know you said not to refer to what i've heard )

when i'm suffering, or seeing those i love suffer, my mind always goes to Christ and the suffering He endured both in life and in death on this earth. and i remember God doesn't ask of me anything He didn't do Himself.
the Father lost His treasured Son (there's God dealing with the Man He loves most). Christ suffered cosmic loss so we wouldn't have to. He endured pain and humiliation, mocking and catastrophic physiological circumstances. why? for the joy set before Him.
it's so hard to keep in mind the joy awaiting us One Day, yet there's little else that can comfort us when life is confusing and terrible.
and we have God's promise to be with us now... remember Isaiah said when you pass through the waters I will be with you? we see the fulfillment of that looking back on the biggest thing God ever did, to which Job must have looked forward as he declared he knew he needed a mediator, and that his Redeemer lives.

that's one thing i see Job learns... we all need a living hope to get through tragic times. grit your teeth only gets me so far (not very far at all).

did i just sermonize you? i promise i didn't mean to. i've lived long enough and seen enough for all this to be very real.
and i just read 1 Peter 1 this morning and was cogitating on this subject.

ps-- i have lost a child and then had more children, and there's no such thing as replacing a child.
remember when God took the life of David and Bathsheba's son? and David said he would go to the child?
that's why God didn't give Job and Mrs. Job double the number of their children, i think.
and i think Job understood that.

 

[Depleted]

I won't speak on Job and I don't know if this would be comforting may not though I look at what God did so more of Gods children can know and be with him in Heaven. God sent his only Son to save us God gave up a Son to save more sons and daughters from our own sinful ways. I know the bible Mentions Jesus lived around 33yrs and died at the cross, placed in the grave for 3 days, then risen back to life, then went back to heaven. In my view it's more complex then that, when a mother or a father looses a child at 5yrs old do to cancer or another reason, do they get the child back when the child would have reach 38yrs no they don't just like Job and his first children's. God knows how this feels too indeed. Surely what I say isn't going to sit well with people but it's my view and my view only, I don't need people agreeing at all its my view of things. I won't fear my thoughts I feel comfortable in my thoughts today. disagree is welcomed or Bash me if any would like too call me names it's ok. I'm cool with it.

I tried to give you a Rep for this, but I have more Rep spreading to do first. But thank you. This did help.