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D
If you avoid God's word, even where it is written from the views of idiots (like Job's friends lol), you're going to have a tough time when you need these kinds of questions answered. That armor we're supposed to have on 24/7 even includes bad advice from idiots, because... well because they weren't the only idiots on earth and we need to know the difference between God's advice and idiots' advice. (And yes, Job's friends rile me too, in case you can't tell. lol)
But you also missed Job didn't need to rebuke the devil, because he trusted God. Think about it. Why rebuke the bad guy if you know you're a foot soldier for the side that won/is winning/will win?
A. We're weaklings compared to Satan.
B. Jesus is our big brother and knows when to beat up Satan without needing our approval.
C. He also knows when to let Satan do what he will.
We go where our focus is.
Focus on God = good direction.
Rebuke Satan = pointed in the wrong direction.
Seriously, WoF is going to be your undoing until you dump that for God's word.
But you also missed Job didn't need to rebuke the devil, because he trusted God. Think about it. Why rebuke the bad guy if you know you're a foot soldier for the side that won/is winning/will win?
A. We're weaklings compared to Satan.
B. Jesus is our big brother and knows when to beat up Satan without needing our approval.
C. He also knows when to let Satan do what he will.
We go where our focus is.
Focus on God = good direction.
Rebuke Satan = pointed in the wrong direction.
Seriously, WoF is going to be your undoing until you dump that for God's word.
D
Right now I've so freaking sore because I spent the morning protecting hubby from idiots, (his nurses -- long story, but no one should have to go through what hubby just did) and the afternoon accomplishing 50% of the errands I have to do. This is physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual weakness heaped on a chair that's killing me, but I couldn't find a store to buy a good chair.
"Depleted" back when I had to come up with a new name to rejoin CC. Beyond that since. There's nothing left but a mess. I don't feel like I'm all the way up to weak. Weak would be improved.
"Depleted" back when I had to come up with a new name to rejoin CC. Beyond that since. There's nothing left but a mess. I don't feel like I'm all the way up to weak. Weak would be improved.
D
Lynn, firstly and mostly, i am sorry for what you're going through.
i sorrow with you.
my takeaway from Job now that i'm older is that it's written so God's children may know that in their suffering, their Father is Sovereign. nothing is purposeless even though we sometimes grope in the dark for some kind of meaning.
maybe that sounds like a 'lesson plan for the future', and for that i apologize. i believe i can learn the things Job learned with God's help.
i once heard Tim Keller say expect tears or you'll be crying for two reasons rather than one. (i know you said not to refer to what i've heard
)
when i'm suffering, or seeing those i love suffer, my mind always goes to Christ and the suffering He endured both in life and in death on this earth. and i remember God doesn't ask of me anything He didn't do Himself.
the Father lost His treasured Son (there's God dealing with the Man He loves most). Christ suffered cosmic loss so we wouldn't have to. He endured pain and humiliation, mocking and catastrophic physiological circumstances. why? for the joy set before Him.
it's so hard to keep in mind the joy awaiting us One Day, yet there's little else that can comfort us when life is confusing and terrible.
and we have God's promise to be with us now... remember Isaiah said when you pass through the waters I will be with you? we see the fulfillment of that looking back on the biggest thing God ever did, to which Job must have looked forward as he declared he knew he needed a mediator, and that his Redeemer lives.
that's one thing i see Job learns... we all need a living hope to get through tragic times. grit your teeth only gets me so far (not very far at all).
did i just sermonize you? i promise i didn't mean to. i've lived long enough and seen enough for all this to be very real.
and i just read 1 Peter 1 this morning and was cogitating on this subject.
ps-- i have lost a child and then had more children, and there's no such thing as replacing a child.
remember when God took the life of David and Bathsheba's son? and David said he would go to the child?
that's why God didn't give Job and Mrs. Job double the number of their children, i think.
and i think Job understood that.
i sorrow with you.
my takeaway from Job now that i'm older is that it's written so God's children may know that in their suffering, their Father is Sovereign. nothing is purposeless even though we sometimes grope in the dark for some kind of meaning.
maybe that sounds like a 'lesson plan for the future', and for that i apologize. i believe i can learn the things Job learned with God's help.
i once heard Tim Keller say expect tears or you'll be crying for two reasons rather than one. (i know you said not to refer to what i've heard
)when i'm suffering, or seeing those i love suffer, my mind always goes to Christ and the suffering He endured both in life and in death on this earth. and i remember God doesn't ask of me anything He didn't do Himself.
the Father lost His treasured Son (there's God dealing with the Man He loves most). Christ suffered cosmic loss so we wouldn't have to. He endured pain and humiliation, mocking and catastrophic physiological circumstances. why? for the joy set before Him.
it's so hard to keep in mind the joy awaiting us One Day, yet there's little else that can comfort us when life is confusing and terrible.
and we have God's promise to be with us now... remember Isaiah said when you pass through the waters I will be with you? we see the fulfillment of that looking back on the biggest thing God ever did, to which Job must have looked forward as he declared he knew he needed a mediator, and that his Redeemer lives.
that's one thing i see Job learns... we all need a living hope to get through tragic times. grit your teeth only gets me so far (not very far at all).
did i just sermonize you? i promise i didn't mean to. i've lived long enough and seen enough for all this to be very real.
and i just read 1 Peter 1 this morning and was cogitating on this subject.
ps-- i have lost a child and then had more children, and there's no such thing as replacing a child.
remember when God took the life of David and Bathsheba's son? and David said he would go to the child?
that's why God didn't give Job and Mrs. Job double the number of their children, i think.
and i think Job understood that.
C
I don't judge her but my hands itch to tell that devil to buck off in Jesus' Name and not bother them anymore. But I did that for a year for a guy, fasted and prayed and then they got mad. No God doesn't just heal. Only if it's His will. They wouldn't let us lay hands on him, so the whole year I prayed was useless, well it was in tongues, maybe He prayed for other people. I really hate it to have to be nice and say oh God bless. When my son had pneumonia and that nurse did it wrong with the thing in his arm and the doctor knew nothing and he was out of breath with that thing on his mouth half choking, man I got furious. I rebuked that devil. Not loud. There were people around. I even said to that nurse without her hearing it: do the needle good at once in Jesus' Name and she did. Told the doctor to check again and give the good meds and I rebuked that devil aaah within an hour it was gone.
Job is O.T. What do I care about Job? I'm not righteous from myself anyway and I know God and His will is in the Bible. I want it. Be made whole. Please tell me why God healed all those people with cancer we prayed for and why He lets them suffer? Well I wouldn't take it.
I heard one guy say: if my mom gave my brother a sweet I knew she had one for me too. Has God told you that this is His will? Ask Him. Maybe He tries to answer all the time through the WOF wolves here. Who knows? Ask Him please. If He says no I shut up. I will anyway.
Job is O.T. What do I care about Job? I'm not righteous from myself anyway and I know God and His will is in the Bible. I want it. Be made whole. Please tell me why God healed all those people with cancer we prayed for and why He lets them suffer? Well I wouldn't take it.
I heard one guy say: if my mom gave my brother a sweet I knew she had one for me too. Has God told you that this is His will? Ask Him. Maybe He tries to answer all the time through the WOF wolves here. Who knows? Ask Him please. If He says no I shut up. I will anyway.
M
One thing I did notice while reading Job are the following verses.
Job 19:23-26 NKJV
[23] "Oh, that my words were written! Oh, that they were inscribed in a book!
[24] That they were engraved on a rock With an iron pen and lead, forever!
[25] For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;
[26] And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God,
Well he certainly got his wish, his words were written in the bible and the bible
circulated around the world across the generations.
It is interesting that despite the problems he knew his redeemer was alive and
that he would see God.
I might have this wrong but the book of Job is one of the oldest books in the
bible. Ages ago I read the bible in chronological order and this suggested
Job was alive while others were still around within living memory of the flood.
In essence Noahs's close decendants like grandchildren/great grandchildren/
great great grandchildren.
If this is correct then people would still have had fresh memories of the flood,
and its effects. It may well put the final chapters of Job into context.
The other thing I noticed was the following verses.
Job 38:8-11 NKJV
[8] "Or who shut in the sea with doors, When it burst forth and issued from the womb;
[9] When I made the clouds its garment, And thick darkness its swaddling band;
[10] When I fixed My limit for it, And set bars and doors; [11] When I said, 'This
far you may come, but no farther, And here your proud waves must stop!'
It suggests that while things look out of control, God does put in place limits
and I think we can take comfort from that. I'm not sermonising honest it
just reminded me of the word on Sunday a few weeks ago. The minister was
saying sometimes we look at the huge waves crashing around the boat, but we
dont see the even bigger waves that are held back.
I suspect when we get to speak to Jesus face to face and he reveals everything
then it will all make sense. We only see what is right in front of us but Jesus sees
all the other paths, hidden twists and turns.
As I look back on my own life difficult as it was, I can now see how I was
protected from the worst.
For example I was brought up in foster care by my aunt, but without her last
minute intervention I would have spent my life in children's home as my eldest
brother did and I would never have come to the Lord.
When I was about 9 my aunt was born again. But when I
reached the age of 18 and had a final chat with social services, they told me they
had considered removing me from my aunts home and placing me back in care just
because they thought she was getting too religious.
There are many other things as well looking back which could have happened but
never did - the biggest waves of all were kept away from the boat and I never knew at
the time.
Job his problems and ours will one day be revealed in full and I think we will be in for
a big surprise at just how much God fought for us.
Sorry this just came to me, maybe I should have added it to the adversity thread. Lol
Job 19:23-26 NKJV
[23] "Oh, that my words were written! Oh, that they were inscribed in a book!
[24] That they were engraved on a rock With an iron pen and lead, forever!
[25] For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;
[26] And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God,
Well he certainly got his wish, his words were written in the bible and the bible
circulated around the world across the generations.
It is interesting that despite the problems he knew his redeemer was alive and
that he would see God.
I might have this wrong but the book of Job is one of the oldest books in the
bible. Ages ago I read the bible in chronological order and this suggested
Job was alive while others were still around within living memory of the flood.
In essence Noahs's close decendants like grandchildren/great grandchildren/
great great grandchildren.
If this is correct then people would still have had fresh memories of the flood,
and its effects. It may well put the final chapters of Job into context.
The other thing I noticed was the following verses.
Job 38:8-11 NKJV
[8] "Or who shut in the sea with doors, When it burst forth and issued from the womb;
[9] When I made the clouds its garment, And thick darkness its swaddling band;
[10] When I fixed My limit for it, And set bars and doors; [11] When I said, 'This
far you may come, but no farther, And here your proud waves must stop!'
It suggests that while things look out of control, God does put in place limits
and I think we can take comfort from that. I'm not sermonising honest it
just reminded me of the word on Sunday a few weeks ago. The minister was
saying sometimes we look at the huge waves crashing around the boat, but we
dont see the even bigger waves that are held back.
I suspect when we get to speak to Jesus face to face and he reveals everything
then it will all make sense. We only see what is right in front of us but Jesus sees
all the other paths, hidden twists and turns.
As I look back on my own life difficult as it was, I can now see how I was
protected from the worst.
For example I was brought up in foster care by my aunt, but without her last
minute intervention I would have spent my life in children's home as my eldest
brother did and I would never have come to the Lord.
When I was about 9 my aunt was born again. But when I
reached the age of 18 and had a final chat with social services, they told me they
had considered removing me from my aunts home and placing me back in care just
because they thought she was getting too religious.
There are many other things as well looking back which could have happened but
never did - the biggest waves of all were kept away from the boat and I never knew at
the time.
Job his problems and ours will one day be revealed in full and I think we will be in for
a big surprise at just how much God fought for us.
Sorry this just came to me, maybe I should have added it to the adversity thread. Lol
Jesus was showing us the way to the truth and the light, and that is why He has became flesh, to show us what we must do in order to inherit eternal life. And so if anyone want to walk in His shoes must pick up their cross and follow after Him.. In the original text, that it says that the Pharisees and certain others did not like what Jesus was teaching them; they did not like the idea that we must let those that has slapped us on the cheek, that we must offer them the other side as well. They were expecting that their king will come down swinging His sword around whacking wicked people across their heads with it; but instead that He has done the opposite.., telling us to let them be wicked or veil.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Hebrew 12: 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
Romans 5:3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
Matthew 10:38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.
1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
Revelation 22: 11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Hebrew 12: 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
Romans 5:3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
Matthew 10:38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.
1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
Revelation 22: 11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
E
The pharisee did not like what Jesus said, You want eternal life. You must come through me,, Thats it..If their mind was set on Christ, they would not care if Jesus said we no longer turn our cheek.. they would have seen the law was a schoolmaster only. to prove to us we could never be good enough to earn Gods love, which would force us to go to Christ (as a schoolmaster)
But this is not the room for this, I will not destroy a lady's heartfelt thread to defend the gospel..
Not all sickness or suffering is based on what we did,, Alot of it is just we live in a fallen and broken world.. And God (as he did for Lazarus) is in tears because of our suffering..
But this is not the room for this, I will not destroy a lady's heartfelt thread to defend the gospel..
Not all sickness or suffering is based on what we did,, Alot of it is just we live in a fallen and broken world.. And God (as he did for Lazarus) is in tears because of our suffering..
C
I did with my own reading. Heard that in church and on a video. Must admit I later looked those passages up.
It is a real nice song.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GdCrPkuAoag
It is a real nice song.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GdCrPkuAoag
Jesus was in tears because of how much they were connected to this God-forsaken lifestyle that is why He had told them to disconnect from him, and let him go, like Samuel did not wanted to be disturbed from his rest. But Jesus is about to leave them so that they will be able to see the truth because without Him leaving, that they will never fast. The only reason to send a Comforters is to comfort those that are in pain, and so suffering is that we all must deal with. To be circumcise from the flesh, that it hurt for a moment, but then it can be healed.
It's pretty much what people experience in their lives. Good people suffer and we're left wondering: why, what's the point?
Sort of like what people really experience. Good people suffer, remain faithful, and often still suffer.
I think that's the point. Job challenges God to explain Job's unjust suffering to the point of saying that if Job could have a hearing in court, Job would win.
God's response effectively tells Job that he doesn't know enough nor is powerful enough to make such a challenge and God is under no obligation to explain anything to Job. And so neither Job nor the reader of Job get an answer to Job's suffering.
I think it's an honest look at how we often experience and feel about things in life. It's really comparable to the "problem of evil." Why do so many people, including us sometimes, suffer unjustly? the Book of Job's answer: we don't know. We have to trust that God knows what he's doing and is powerful enough to accomplish it. But we aren't in a position to challenge God because we don't have the required knowledge nor power, and God is under no obligation to answer to us.
D
You keep thinking you're doing the work. You're not. Jesus said if the people weren't rejoicing when he went into Jerusalem, the rocks would. Rocks aren't rejoicing by their own will -- ever. God always, always always gets his will. Agree with him. Disagree with him. Lay hands on someone. Don't. Fast. Pig out. None of it matters in God's will. Some of it only matters in that God works his will in us.
Always gets his will! If we want his will or not.
Always gets his will! If we want his will or not.
C
Well did you ask Him what His will is? You can't simply assume that everything that happens is His will just because it happens.
We both pray for His will to happen, only difference is that I believe that He wants to heal him, so we're in agreement and will see what happens.
I looked it up yesterday. There was one man, one of the first when He started His ministry who said: Lord You can heal me if it is Your will. He said: I want it. Be made whole.
I wondered why that's only once in the gospels. I think because the rest saw Him do all these miracles and didn't even think He didn't want to heal them since He healed all the others.
It was the other way around: He asked the man at Bethesda: Do you want to be made whole?
Job got healed too in the end so I'll just keep praying, also that He strengthens you.
It is amazing to see how you go through this I must say.
We both pray for His will to happen, only difference is that I believe that He wants to heal him, so we're in agreement and will see what happens.
I looked it up yesterday. There was one man, one of the first when He started His ministry who said: Lord You can heal me if it is Your will. He said: I want it. Be made whole.
I wondered why that's only once in the gospels. I think because the rest saw Him do all these miracles and didn't even think He didn't want to heal them since He healed all the others.
It was the other way around: He asked the man at Bethesda: Do you want to be made whole?
Job got healed too in the end so I'll just keep praying, also that He strengthens you.
It is amazing to see how you go through this I must say.
A
I found it interesting that Job didn't sin until his "friends" started in on him, and God didn't show up until Elihu spoke out against Job and the three "friends" words because all four were wrong. However Job had a humble and contrite heart when confronted with his sin, which was to proclaim his righteousness and imply that God was being unjust.
I have listened to alot of sermons and some helped and some I strongly disagree with about Job.
I believe it's a very misunderstood and misquoted book in the Bible.
Folks often quote the lies of Job's friend to support their false doctrines about "health and wealth and name it and claim it" gospels.
If we truly give our lives to God, then God does not promise material wealth or earthly health. He promises us that our cross will be lighter than the chains of lies and sin the world would place upon us.
He promises to be with us every step of the way. He promises to give us a way out of temptation. He gives us love and we,must have faith in the unseen promise of eternal life in resurrected bodies. We have the Holy Spirit and being born again in spirit we add to our faith...virtue, knowledge, self control, perservance, brotherly kindness and love. Not love as the world gives but unconditional agape love for evwryone, even if they hate us.
When we reach that point Jesus calls us friends and brothers and sisters for we are no longer slaves or servants but a people who seek to do God's will on this Earth.
God's will is to bring His children back home to Him. Come out of the mud, stop living with pigs and sin and return home to the living arms of your Father.
Sometimes God asked His prophets to live lives reflecting the sin and depravity of His people.
God uses our lives as a testimony to,His grace, mercy and power.
What many people don't pick up about Job is that the only reason He was righteous is because God taught him and molded him. However, Job sinned when his friends kept heckling him and teaching what these false prosperity teachers now teach.that is why Job had to repent and ask God for forgiveness.
I have listened to alot of sermons and some helped and some I strongly disagree with about Job.
I believe it's a very misunderstood and misquoted book in the Bible.
Folks often quote the lies of Job's friend to support their false doctrines about "health and wealth and name it and claim it" gospels.
If we truly give our lives to God, then God does not promise material wealth or earthly health. He promises us that our cross will be lighter than the chains of lies and sin the world would place upon us.
He promises to be with us every step of the way. He promises to give us a way out of temptation. He gives us love and we,must have faith in the unseen promise of eternal life in resurrected bodies. We have the Holy Spirit and being born again in spirit we add to our faith...virtue, knowledge, self control, perservance, brotherly kindness and love. Not love as the world gives but unconditional agape love for evwryone, even if they hate us.
When we reach that point Jesus calls us friends and brothers and sisters for we are no longer slaves or servants but a people who seek to do God's will on this Earth.
God's will is to bring His children back home to Him. Come out of the mud, stop living with pigs and sin and return home to the living arms of your Father.
Sometimes God asked His prophets to live lives reflecting the sin and depravity of His people.
God uses our lives as a testimony to,His grace, mercy and power.
What many people don't pick up about Job is that the only reason He was righteous is because God taught him and molded him. However, Job sinned when his friends kept heckling him and teaching what these false prosperity teachers now teach.that is why Job had to repent and ask God for forgiveness.