Once Saved, Always Saved?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, but the fact remains that for those who do not produce fruit, they are like branches that are thrown into the fire. So, whatever anyone wants to call it, fruit, salvation, the end result is being thrown into the fire, unless someone can come up with a happy interpretation for that.

The believers part is faith, from first to last and without it no one will see eternal life. If a believer stops having faith, then they have unplugged from God's grace. A believer is guaranteed eternal life, IF he/she continues in faith.
1 cor 3
3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; [SUP]3 [/SUP]for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? [SUP]4 [/SUP]For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?

sometimes we just have to think.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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The one is not contingent on the other. A believer should part from iniquity and be a vessel unto honor, but unfortunately, there are some who are not and cannot be used by God.

You left something out. The seal is twofold: the lord knows who is his, AND let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity. The two cannot be separated. Christ does not know those who don't obey his commandments.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Colossians 1:21-23, "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

The context is the JSOC to present them blameless if they stay true to the gospel. Their salvation is not at stake.


Hello Joh146,

Regarding this issue, what do you make of the following:

"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[SUP]g[/SUP] your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.

What happens if a believer doesn't do what is underlined? And what do you think of the following:

"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of his household, to give the others their food at the proper time? 46Blessed is that servant whose master returns and finds him doing his job. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
48But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ 49And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day he does not anticipate and at an hour he does not expect. 51Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

In the example above, the reference is to "servant" who calls the Lord "Master," (I point this out to be proactive for those who would say that the servant in Scripture was not a believer). Then that servant being wicked turns back to the sinful nature represented by his beating his fellow servants and eating and drinking with drunkards (partying). The result being, the Master of the servant returning at a time when he least expects it and finds him doing so, will assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Does this sound like OSAS? Every promise to a believer should followed by, "if you continue in faith." Go and read the promises found in the letters to the seven churches and everywhere that it states "He who overcomes" reverse the promise for he who doesn't overcome.

And what do you think about the following:

"Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

So, according to the scripture above, if a believer does not forgive his brother or sister from his heart, then the result will be the same as in Jesus' example above.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The best way to answer this is the verb tenses used as applied unto salvation....a present continuing result from a past completed action....the bible contrary to the workers for salvation crew teaches eternal security......
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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I don't believe in gravity.

I have no more faith in it.

Does it cease because of my un-belief? Or does my un-belief just cause difficulty?

As your faith is so be it unto you.

Are you really sure that it is a good idea to believe that your work, or your faith, or your deeds keep you saved? Or would it be much better to believe the words of Christ that He has given us Eternal Life, and that Eternal Life is actually for eternity and not here today and gone tomorrow?

2 Timothy 2:24-26
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

There is only one way out of the snare. It is not by your will. It is not by your understanding. It is by coming to the Lord and letting go of your will and "understanding" and having faith that the less is blessed by the greater.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
It is very simple, but rejected by most.

John 15:5-6 is the believers WORKS being burned.

If A(singular) man does not abide they are cast forth as a branch........ And men gather THEM(plural)

The verse Starts with a singular (a man) and ends with a plural( they are burned)........our human good.

A clear and unambiguous verse that depicts this is................

1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Honestly, the believer who does not have absolute confidence in their salvation and believes in possible loss of salvation for any reason..............is going to live 1 Cor 3:15 for a moment at the evaluation seat or Bema seat of Christ..........they put merit in their mustard seed of faith, when there is no merit in our personal faith or are trying from their flesh to please God.
Thats right. You're not abiding in Christ when the focus of your faith is your faith. It's through faith IN Jesus Christ, not faith in your faith.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I don't believe in gravity.

I have no more faith in it.

Does it cease because of my un-belief? Or does my un-belief just cause difficulty?

As your faith is so be it unto you.

Are you really sure that it is a good idea to believe that your work, or your faith, or your deeds keep you saved? Or would it be much better to believe the words of Christ that He has given us Eternal Life, and that Eternal Life is actually for eternity and not here today and gone tomorrow?

2 Timothy 2:24-26
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

There is only one way out of the snare. It is not by your will. It is not by your understanding. It is by coming to the Lord and letting go of your will and "understanding" and having faith that the less is blessed by the greater.
What you described is a natural phenomena, A better example would be flying, which is completely unnatural to man. It takes sustained effort to overcome natural forces and fly, just like it takes sustained faith to abide in GOD.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What you described is a natural phenomena, A better example would be flying, which is completely unnatural to man. It takes sustained effort to overcome natural forces and fly, just like it takes sustained faith to abide in GOD.
You give way to much credit to man.

Your example does not fit. Because it states you can actually power the plane. When you realize, you can not even power the plane enough to get it to start down the runway Maybe then you will realize what it takes to be saved.
 
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roaringkitten

Guest
What you described is a natural phenomena, A better example would be flying, which is completely unnatural to man. It takes sustained effort to overcome natural forces and fly, just like it takes sustained faith to abide in GOD.
But what if Jesus is the pilot of the plane and you are the passenger? That would mean your life is 100% in His hands!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
But what if Jesus is the pilot of the plane and you are the passenger? That would mean your life is 100% in His hands!
Sadly, that goes against human nature, So to believe or trust this, would take complete humility and trust (faith)

Or as Jesus said,, I am the way truth and life, no one comes but through me.. It takes the same amount of faith and humility..
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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What you described is a natural phenomena, A better example would be flying, which is completely unnatural to man. It takes sustained effort to overcome natural forces and fly, just like it takes sustained faith to abide in GOD.
Hebrews 4:3 [SUP] [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 4:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


You must not be understanding Salvation and Eternal Life. Your only "sustained effort" is to enter Rest. Where you would cease all your "sustained effort" and rely solely on the "sustained effort" of the Lord. Sustained effort is a carnal concept of unbelief.

Ephesians 2:8-10

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


What sustained effort is required to be His Workmanship? What sustained effort is required to receive a gift?

What sustained effort is required to cease from your works? LOL.


Faith is remembering we are already saved. Faith is remembering we are His Workmanship. Faith is ceasing from our "sustained effort".
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Amen!..well said Grandpa...there is a massive difference between "us" doing works and the life of Christ in us bearing His fruit in our lives....we rest in His completed work on our behalf and now His life flows in and through us to a hurt and dying world.


Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 4:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


You must not be understanding Salvation and Eternal Life. Your only "sustained effort" is to enter Rest. Where you would cease all your "sustained effort" and rely solely on the "sustained effort" of the Lord. Sustained effort is a carnal concept of unbelief.

Ephesians 2:8-10

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


What sustained effort is required to be His Workmanship? What sustained effort is required to receive a gift?

What sustained effort is required to cease from your works? LOL.


Faith is remembering we are already saved. Faith is remembering we are His Workmanship. Faith is ceasing from our "sustained effort".
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I had a thought. When you are driving a car, do you suddenly get an out of body experience, "Am I driving a car, is it real, could it be all made up, how do I know I am driving a car, will it make it to the destination, maybe I am lost?"

The lord lays down some simple principles. Walk in love, purity, and righteousness. That is where His heart is.
Search to commune with Him and you will find Him. Eternity, judgement etc will all take care of themselves.

The Lord is laying out the problem we have is our source of life, what we base everything on. If it is Gods love and communion, we are in the Kingdom. It is not earning, or inventing arriving, it is literally walking in it by faith.

Just lay your heart before the King, confess and repent of the sin that comes to mind, and praise the Lord for all His love shown through the cross. So many appear to say do not do this or that, rather than seek the Lord in prayer. Spend time in His word, let the Holy Spirit minister to your spirit. It is His grace and love that will teach and show you the way through His word. There are no tricks or things to trap you, or deceptions, just listen and obey.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I had a thought. When you are driving a car, do you suddenly get an out of body experience, "Am I driving a car, is it real, could it be all made up, how do I know I am driving a car, will it make it to the destination, maybe I am lost?"

The lord lays down some simple principles. Walk in love, purity, and righteousness. That is where His heart is.
Search to commune with Him and you will find Him. Eternity, judgement etc will all take care of themselves.

The Lord is laying out the problem we have is our source of life, what we base everything on. If it is Gods love and communion, we are in the Kingdom. It is not earning, or inventing arriving, it is literally walking in it by faith.

Just lay your heart before the King, confess and repent of the sin that comes to mind, and praise the Lord for all His love shown through the cross. So many appear to say do not do this or that, rather than seek the Lord in prayer. Spend time in His word, let the Holy Spirit minister to your spirit. It is His grace and love that will teach and show you the way through His word. There are no tricks or things to trap you, or deceptions, just listen and obey.
I have a thought.

If your driving the car, How do you know your going the right way, and not the wrong way? All you have is your belief system, and what you THINK is right,, How can you know your true??

Would it not be better to let God drive the car, and you to follow along trusting him? It may be a bumpy road, there will be alot of trial and tribulation, there will be alot of growing pains, especially if you resist God.

But at least you will have hope you will get there, and not drive all your life, only to get no where..
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I have a thought.

If your driving the car, How do you know your going the right way, and not the wrong way? All you have is your belief system, and what you THINK is right,, How can you know your true??

Would it not be better to let God drive the car, and you to follow along trusting him? It may be a bumpy road, there will be alot of trial and tribulation, there will be alot of growing pains, especially if you resist God.

But at least you will have hope you will get there, and not drive all your life, only to get no where..
God nevers drives the car, he helps us drive the car. He shows us the way and the destination, we are in His hands over everything, though He has given us responsibility to find that way.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matt 7:13-14

We are doing the entering, and going down the road the leads to life. He is the good shepherd, the guide, the one we follow. We are the ones who have to follow, to do the doing, to learn how to be. The world around us is very much a product of people and their efforts, limited by the laws of nature and relationship.

Jesus himself said he did the works the Father was doing

For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me.
John 5:36

Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
John 10:37

Now these works were not God doing the works alone, it was Jesus doing the works the Father had given Him to do.
The action is on the believer not just handing control over to God and letting go. That is not Gods model.
 
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psychomom

Guest
lol.... apologies, y'all, but this reminds me of a bumper sticker that used to be popular in the States.

it said "God is my copilot".

it drove (pun intended) my poor husband nuts each time he saw it.
one day i had my head in the backseat pacifying one of the children when he burst out laughing...

he had seen a bumper sticker that read, "if God is your copilot you're in the wrong seat!" ;)
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Tennessee
lol.... apologies, y'all, but this reminds me of a bumper sticker that used to be popular in the States.

it said "God is my copilot".

it drove (pun intended) my poor husband nuts each time he saw it.
one day i had my head in the backseat pacifying one of the children when he burst out laughing...

he had seen a bumper sticker that read, "if God is your copilot you're in the wrong seat!" ;)
I fully agree that the saying is backwards. God is always the pilot. He can be the designated driver also, at times.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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"Jesus take the wheel... take it from my hands..."

-Carrie Underwood