Once Saved, Always Saved?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hello FreeNChrist,

To claim OSAS, one would have to explain the following scriptures, just to name a few:

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

In order to receive the promise of eternal life, the branches/believers must remain faithful in Christ. If not, then they cannot bear fruit and are good for nothing but to be broken off and thrown into the fire.

"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The scripture above is directed towards servants, for he calls the Lord, "Master." If that servant goes back to living according to the sinful nature (beating his fellow servants, eating and drinking with drunkards (partying)), then that servant will be treated as an unbeliever, a hypocrite.

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

The scripture above is also directed to believer's, for the example is to those who are in Christ. Notice that if a believer wanders away from the truth, then in that state they are accumulating a multitude of sins and are on their way to death. When a believer stops having faith and goes back to living according to the sinful nature, then they have wandered away from faith.

There is no such thing as OSAS, for all of the promises through Christ require the believer to continue from faith to faith, from first to last.
eph 1 and 2 and many many other passages would answer you correctly and completely.

People want to try to equate fruit making with salvation. They are only realted with the fact that one has to be saved to produce fruit, but they do not produce it, God.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
Hello FreeNChrist,

To claim OSAS, one would have to explain the following scriptures, just to name a few:

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."
The rule of Bible interpretation is to interpret the Bible from the clear verses and not the unclear ones.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."
The rule of Bible interpretation is to interpret the Bible from the clear verses and not the unclear ones.
Hi Chuckt,

Would you agree that what Jesus is saying about him being the Vine and we being the Branches clear in its meaning and therefore, everything that is stated regarding them as being clear in their meaning?
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Hi Chuckt,

Would you agree that what Jesus is saying about him being the Vine and we being the Branches clear in its meaning and therefore, everything that is stated regarding them as being clear in their meaning?
It's about bearing fruit, not salvation.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Well, what would you interpret being thrown into the fire to mean for not bearing fruit? I think that is pretty clear.
I know. You see a pile of burning branches and you immediately think it means Hell. It doesn’t.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
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I know. You see a pile of burning branches and you immediately think it means Hell. It doesn’t.
So, what do you think the following means:

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit"

"If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
So, what do you think the following means:

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit"

"If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."
The parable of the Vine and the branch it is about the Christian life and how we will be fruitful in that life. And the main thrust of it is simply that apart from Christ we can do nothing. We do not produce fruit, we can only bear fruit that Christ (The Vine) produces through us as we abide in Him.


A life spent trying to produce fruit on our own is a wasted life. It is like a branch, severed from the vine, and good for nothing but firewood.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
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I know. You see a pile of burning branches and you immediately think it means Hell. It doesn’t.
What do you think about this one:

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
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The parable of the Vine and the branch it is about the Christian life and how we will be fruitful in that life. And the main thrust of it is simply that apart from Christ we can do nothing. We do not produce fruit, we can only bear fruit that Christ (The Vine) produces through us as we abide in Him.


A life spent trying to produce fruit on our own is a wasted life. It is like a branch, severed from the vine, and good for nothing but firewood.
But you've conveniently left off the consequences that are mentioned in the parable.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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I've left off nothing.
Do you think that a branch/believer being cut of and thrown into the fire, is not a reference to loss of salvation in the lake of fire? And what about the other scripture that I presented? If a brother or sister wanders away from the truth? It shows that while in that state they are accumulating sin and are on their way to death. But, if someone turns them back, then they will cover over a multitude of sins and save that wandered person from death.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
What do you think about this one:

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
A "sinner" is an unregenerate person.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Do you think that a branch/believer being cut of and thrown into the fire, is not a reference to loss of salvation in the lake of fire? And what about the other scripture that I presented? If a brother or sister wanders away from the truth? It shows that while in that state they are accumulating sin and are on their way to death. But, if someone turns them back, then they will cover over a multitude of sins and save that wandered person from death.
It is a reference to the uselessness of trying to produce good fruit on your own, apart from Christ.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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A "sinner" is an unregenerate person.
Sorry, but you can't use that here, because those in the scripture are referred to as brothers and sisters and not unbelievers. I'm just trying to show that all believer's must remain faithful in Christ. If a believer goes back into the world, living according to the sinful nature and dies in that state, then they will not have died in a state of faith.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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It is a reference to the uselessness of trying to produce good fruit on your own, apart from Christ.
And what happens to the person who continues in that state? What does the scripture say? Does being picked up and thrown into the fire sound like a good thing?
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
Sorry, but you can't use that here, because those in the scripture are referred to as brothers and sisters and not unbelievers. I'm just trying to show that all believer's must remain faithful in Christ. If a believer goes back into the world, living according to the sinful nature and dies in that state, then they will not have died in a state of faith.
James is writing to a Jewish audience. The Jews all called each other brother and sister. That doesn't make them Christians.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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It is a reference to the uselessness of trying to produce good fruit on your own, apart from Christ.
What do you think about the following:

"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.