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There are a lot of times in the original greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is fulfilled.....example
Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
If so be that ye continue in the faith ([FONT="Gentium" !important]ei ge epimenete tēi pistei[/FONT]).Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),
Vincent's Word Pictures in the New Testament.
In other words..Paul is saying that you are continuing in the faith and are established , steadfast ..etc. It is not a "conditional" statement but an assumed fact as being established already in Christ.
For example....you are going to the bank..and I say to you.... If you went to the bank ( and you did go to the bank )...give me some money.
Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
If so be that ye continue in the faith ([FONT="Gentium" !important]ei ge epimenete tēi pistei[/FONT]).Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),
Vincent's Word Pictures in the New Testament.
In other words..Paul is saying that you are continuing in the faith and are established , steadfast ..etc. It is not a "conditional" statement but an assumed fact as being established already in Christ.
For example....you are going to the bank..and I say to you.... If you went to the bank ( and you did go to the bank )...give me some money.
Yes, but the fact remains that for those who do not produce fruit, they are like branches that are thrown into the fire. So, whatever anyone wants to call it, fruit, salvation, the end result is being thrown into the fire, unless someone can come up with a happy interpretation for that.
The believers part is faith, from first to last and without it no one will see eternal life. If a believer stops having faith, then they have unplugged from God's grace. A believer is guaranteed eternal life, IF he/she continues in faith.
The believers part is faith, from first to last and without it no one will see eternal life. If a believer stops having faith, then they have unplugged from God's grace. A believer is guaranteed eternal life, IF he/she continues in faith.
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Ha, ha! I would say that it is presupposition on the scriptures part. Do you always circumvent scripture like this? To wander away from the truth, whether Jew or Gentile, would demonstrate that they would have to be in the truth in order to wander away from it. Otherwise, if they are Jews as you say they are and you correct, what would they be wandering away from, the Law of Moses? Or is James speaking to Jewish believers in Christ? I will leave you with that since your mind seems to be made up regarding this issue. I would suggest that you go and look at the letters to the seven churches though and read the promises to those who overcome and then reverse what is said to those who do not overcome.
Peace in Christ
Peace in Christ
Here is a good grace-based teaching on the churches in Revelation...sometimes the comments on the bottom are good as people ask questions...as you move around you will find teaching on all the churches in revelation...it'll bless you and make you fall deeper in love with the finished work of our Lord on our behalf.
Laodicean church – Escape to Reality
Laodicean church – Escape to Reality
G
It is very simple, but rejected by most.
John 15:5-6 is the believers WORKS being burned.
If A(singular) man does not abide they are cast forth as a branch........ And men gather THEM(plural)
The verse Starts with a singular (a man) and ends with a plural( they are burned)........our human good.
A clear and unambiguous verse that depicts this is................
1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Honestly, the believer who does not have absolute confidence in their salvation and believes in possible loss of salvation for any reason..............is going to live 1 Cor 3:15 for a moment at the evaluation seat or Bema seat of Christ..........they put merit in their mustard seed of faith, when there is no merit in our personal faith or are trying from their flesh to please God.
John 15:5-6 is the believers WORKS being burned.
If A(singular) man does not abide they are cast forth as a branch........ And men gather THEM(plural)
The verse Starts with a singular (a man) and ends with a plural( they are burned)........our human good.
A clear and unambiguous verse that depicts this is................
1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Honestly, the believer who does not have absolute confidence in their salvation and believes in possible loss of salvation for any reason..............is going to live 1 Cor 3:15 for a moment at the evaluation seat or Bema seat of Christ..........they put merit in their mustard seed of faith, when there is no merit in our personal faith or are trying from their flesh to please God.
G
God saves us the moment we believe. Acts 16:31. Our salvation is in His hands the moment we believe.
Every time we grieve or quench the Spirit we wander from the truth. Does not mean the loss of salvation.
The HOPE of the Gospel~~ the absolute assurance, absolute confidence of the Gospel.
A couple of good examples of people leaving that hope:
1. A Jew that reverts back to his/her old system.
2 A gentile that reverts back to their human view point rather than divine viewpoint.
There is no loss of salvation in the HOPE(absolute confidence) of the Gospel.
Every time we grieve or quench the Spirit we wander from the truth. Does not mean the loss of salvation.
The HOPE of the Gospel~~ the absolute assurance, absolute confidence of the Gospel.
A couple of good examples of people leaving that hope:
1. A Jew that reverts back to his/her old system.
2 A gentile that reverts back to their human view point rather than divine viewpoint.
There is no loss of salvation in the HOPE(absolute confidence) of the Gospel.
2 Timothy 2:17-19, And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
These two false teachers have overthrown the faith of some of the believers through false doctrine. But God let Timothy know that their salvation cannot be overthrown...
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
The Lord knows who are His by the seal of the Holy Spirit He has place in the believer who has the right foundation, Jesus Christ.
These two false teachers have overthrown the faith of some of the believers through false doctrine. But God let Timothy know that their salvation cannot be overthrown...
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
The Lord knows who are His by the seal of the Holy Spirit He has place in the believer who has the right foundation, Jesus Christ.
Hello Joh146,
Regarding this issue, what do you make of the following:
"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[SUP]g[/SUP] your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.
What happens if a believer doesn't do what is underlined? And what do you think of the following:
"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of his household, to give the others their food at the proper time? 46Blessed is that servant whose master returns and finds him doing his job. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
48But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ 49And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day he does not anticipate and at an hour he does not expect. 51Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
In the example above, the reference is to "servant" who calls the Lord "Master," (I point this out to be proactive for those who would say that the servant in Scripture was not a believer). Then that servant being wicked turns back to the sinful nature represented by his beating his fellow servants and eating and drinking with drunkards (partying). The result being, the Master of the servant returning at a time when he least expects it and finds him doing so, will assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Does this sound like OSAS? Every promise to a believer should followed by, "if you continue in faith." Go and read the promises found in the letters to the seven churches and everywhere that it states "He who overcomes" reverse the promise for he who doesn't overcome.
And what do you think about the following:
"Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
So, according to the scripture above, if a believer does not forgive his brother or sister from his heart, then the result will be the same as in Jesus' example above.
Regarding this issue, what do you make of the following:
"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[SUP]g[/SUP] your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.
What happens if a believer doesn't do what is underlined? And what do you think of the following:
"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of his household, to give the others their food at the proper time? 46Blessed is that servant whose master returns and finds him doing his job. 47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
48But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ 49And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day he does not anticipate and at an hour he does not expect. 51Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
In the example above, the reference is to "servant" who calls the Lord "Master," (I point this out to be proactive for those who would say that the servant in Scripture was not a believer). Then that servant being wicked turns back to the sinful nature represented by his beating his fellow servants and eating and drinking with drunkards (partying). The result being, the Master of the servant returning at a time when he least expects it and finds him doing so, will assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Does this sound like OSAS? Every promise to a believer should followed by, "if you continue in faith." Go and read the promises found in the letters to the seven churches and everywhere that it states "He who overcomes" reverse the promise for he who doesn't overcome.
And what do you think about the following:
"Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
So, according to the scripture above, if a believer does not forgive his brother or sister from his heart, then the result will be the same as in Jesus' example above.
C
The passage is about false prophets (verse 15), not the born again believer.
"Do you sin? Then guess what, you are not a good tree. The only good tree is Jesus. Jesus said, 'Why callest me thou good? There is none good but God' (Luke 18:29). "
-p.89, "RELIGION VS JESUS DO VS DONE" (Explanation of scripture the "religious" use to deny salvation by grace alone) by Preston Greene
"Do you sin? Then guess what, you are not a good tree. The only good tree is Jesus. Jesus said, 'Why callest me thou good? There is none good but God' (Luke 18:29). "
-p.89, "RELIGION VS JESUS DO VS DONE" (Explanation of scripture the "religious" use to deny salvation by grace alone) by Preston Greene
E
1 cor 13: [SUP]13 [/SUP]each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.